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Jodi Arias Trial


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#511    Queen in the North

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Posted 21 March 2013 - 10:32 PM

View PostAaronsmom, on 21 March 2013 - 09:52 PM, said:

Regardless of which order things occurred in, this exceeds self-defense in even the most liberal sense of the word. Am I wrong?
No I don't think you're wrong.

Though for argument's sake... :P  I'd say him being stabbed in the back is the biggest indicator of it not being self defense, regardless of the order. As I think someone else said, if you are in a frenzy as you genuinely fear for your own life, stabbing someone who was coming AT you, actually posing a threat, many times fits into self defense a lot easier than stabbing someone in the back. Also throat slitting... I'd say stabbing someone that much and shooting them (don't know the order of events I just mean generally) is gonna be enough to incapacitate them... Slitting his throat was just cold.

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#512    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:23 AM

View Postdocyabut2, on 20 March 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

. Did the gun jammed or was there only one bullet in the gun or what? What really happen?

I think it jammed.  I seem to recollect that these small caliber guns do tend to jam. I don't know the manufacturer, we could find out more if we knew that, but yes, I'm thinking it either jammed or somehow got loose from her hand...


#513    docyabut2

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 22 March 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

I think it jammed.  I seem to recollect that these small caliber guns do tend to jam. I don't know the manufacturer, we could find out more if we knew that, but yes, I'm thinking it either jammed or somehow got loose from her hand...


Interest in this case is totally confusing.They say the stab to the heart or the neck cut would have made Travis instantly die ,so we know that had to have come last because he made it down the hall.The gun shot, there are people that can go on for hours walking around with a shot in the head. So I figuring when she dropped the gun on the floor, the floor was wet  the gun may have slid away and while he was still comming at her she picked up the knife.,stabbing him , as he was  trying to get away all the way down the hall. I think the only way this case can really be ever proven for being a self defence case or not, is if the gun could ever be found or any real proof Travis had a gun.


#514    regi

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 01:06 PM

It comes down to this...either one believes Arias' version 3.0- or not.

Let me elavorate.
It doesn't matter if Alexander was shot first or last or anywhere in between. None of that matters because she's claiming it happened ONE WAY, and either one believes it happened THAT way, or not.

Edited by regi, 22 March 2013 - 01:18 PM.


#515    jeremypjl

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 04:37 PM

I really started following the trial about 2 weeks ago. It really has all the elements of an interesting case. As we all know all that needs to be planted in reasonable doubt and I think the defense is doing a pretty good job. I find her whole story to be a biy crazy and she is an odd woman, but being odd doesn't make someone guilty of 1st degree murder does it? My feeling is that the prosecution is screwing up in the sense that all he has done in cross examination is to attack her instead of sticking to the case. Lets be honest anytime there are cameras in a court room lawyers like to put on a bit of a show, and i think its hurting him. Almost every objection for being argumentative has been sustained. You think he would get the message by now. He has created sympathy for her. My guess, she will be aquitted!, even though I think she is guilty.
jeremy


#516    ouija ouija

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:28 PM

If it's accepted that Jodi has PTSD, shouldn't it also be accepted that the version of events she is giving now, including her admission of having killed Travis by herself, is just as likely to be untrue as true?

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#517    Yamato

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postregi, on 22 March 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

It comes down to this...either one believes Arias' version 3.0- or not.

Let me elavorate.
It doesn't matter if Alexander was shot first or last or anywhere in between. None of that matters because she's claiming it happened ONE WAY, and either one believes it happened THAT way, or not.
The trial doesn't come down to that.  That is just relying on the degree of honestly of claims of a proven liar to be true in order to abscond her of murder.  Proving someone is a liar to prove they're a murderer!    Say what?   If she was suddenly telling the truth, and by the evidence we were somehow able to determine that she was telling the truth in version 4.0, or 5.0, or 6.0, you'd suddenly allow yourself the 2nd option of judging her not guilty?   No, that's not the litmus test that would make up your decision.  She's guilty either way in your book.  The lack of honesty is only to be used as a cudgel to convict her of murder and kill her.

What it really comes down to is whether or not we doubt Martinez. and I hope the jury is going to do their jobs appropriately to the way the rule of law is supposed to work in this country.

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#518    regi

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:15 PM

In other words, what happened is either what the defense's evidence shows happened, or what happened is the way the prosecution's evidence shows happened. :whistle:


#519    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 07:56 PM

View Postdocyabut2, on 22 March 2013 - 12:47 PM, said:

They say the stab to the heart or the neck cut would have made Travis instantly die ,so we know that had to have come last because he made it down the hall.

I think the only way this case can really be ever proven for being a self defence case or not, is if the gun could ever be found or any real proof Travis had a gun.

The gun isn’t coming to court docyabut2, I know how much we'd all like to see it & settle her 3rd story as a lie.

The ME's testimony was the chest wound would have eventually been fatal; bleeding out, but could have been survivable if he had gotten medical help. He was able to move around after chest wound, not fast, not well, but mobile. He was firm about defensive wounds to hands coming very early on, along with chest wound. Neck would allow only a few seconds of life remaining.

Gun & jurors. Do you think they will dismiss the huge coincidence of her family having their .25 gun stolen just a few days before this murder? That is a huge leap IMO. The questions coming from the jury give me no sense of them being sympathetic.

My question to you is do you feel the jury will deliberate much with the self-defense story?

Anyone know what other witnesses the defense has in the wings?


#520    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:15 PM

View Postjeremypjl, on 22 March 2013 - 04:37 PM, said:

My feeling is that the prosecution is screwing up in the sense that all he has done in cross examination is to attack her instead of sticking to the case. Lets be honest anytime there are cameras in a court room lawyers like to put on a bit of a show, and i think its hurting him. Almost every objection for being argumentative has been sustained. You think he would get the message by now. He has created sympathy for her. My guess, she will be aquitted!, even though I think she is guilty.
jeremy

Hi Jeremy - Aquitted seems a bit of a stretch at this juncture, though it could change.  I'm listening to jury questions and don't hear any softening towards her in them.  I agree on Martinez though.  The bully routine is a bit much.  People's reactions to him are amazing me.  "An inspiration to me" read one of them.  I think the same level of damage to her defense can be achieved without beating up a witness. Too dramatic. TV's gone to his head like Judge Ito in  OJ trial,.


#521    regi

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 08:24 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 22 March 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Anyone know what other witnesses the defense has in the wings?

That's a good question, and it will be interesting to see.
Since they were in the courtroom during her testimony, neither of her parents will take the stand to support her allegations of abuse from them. :no:
Speaks volumes. :yes:

Edited by regi, 22 March 2013 - 08:26 PM.


#522    regi

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:16 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 22 March 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

I agree on Martinez though.  The bully routine is a bit much.  People's reactions to him are amazing me.  "An inspiration to me" read one of them.  I think the same level of damage to her defense can be achieved without beating up a witness. Too dramatic. TV's gone to his head like Judge Ito in  OJ trial,.

I'm behind Martinez all the way. :tsu:  I like his passion, which I've read is the same in all his cases.
He prosecuted a case in which a woman murdered her husband, and she'd also entered an absurd plea of self defense. (Yeah, the body alone told a different story. That woman's on death row.)

Regardless, when an attorney on either side believes a witness is lying, or misleading, they'd better go after them and teach them a lesson. Personally, I want them go after that witness with anything and everything they've got.

Seriously, I don't know how these people who help get murders off with nothing but b.s. sleep at night.

Edited by regi, 22 March 2013 - 09:22 PM.


#523    Leftcoastgal

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 09:22 PM

View Postouija ouija, on 22 March 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:

If it's accepted that Jodi has PTSD, shouldn't it also be accepted that the version of events she is giving now, including her admission of having killed Travis by herself, is just as likely to be untrue as true?

Hi there - I'd think that would have to be another level or diagnosis of psychological trauma.  What that suggests is a full on delusion or hallucination.  While extreme PTSD may have something like that, such as back in the early '80's some Vietnam vets had flashbacks and responded violently as if back in the war zone. At the time, here in California, it was brought on by helicopters flying low in early AM hours spraying malathion to kill mosquitoes thought to be carrying something infectious. But I think that goes beyond PTSD.  I'll go hunting for more information on it but you get what I'm suggesting I think.


#524    spayneuter

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 10:33 PM

View PostLeftcoastgal, on 22 March 2013 - 08:15 PM, said:

Hi Jeremy - Aquitted seems a bit of a stretch at this juncture, though it could change.  I'm listening to jury questions and don't hear any softening towards her in them.  I agree on Martinez though.  The bully routine is a bit much.  People's reactions to him are amazing me.  "An inspiration to me" read one of them.  I think the same level of damage to her defense can be achieved without beating up a witness. Too dramatic. TV's gone to his head like Judge Ito in  OJ trial,.

I agree with you.  That prosecutor p***es me off the way he won't let anyone tell the whole truth.  He barks "just yes or no!"  When we all know that the truth is in shades of gray sometimes.

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#525    Aaronsmom

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Posted 22 March 2013 - 11:32 PM

Yeah, very true spayneuter, but that is a trial atty for you. All of them do it--or try to do it. An atty wants his own witness on the stand to feel free to elaborate if it helps, but the other one will object, and if it's a witness for the opposing side, they try to cut them off fast. They will badger the witness to answer only yes or no. I don't think many people minded too much when Martinez questioned Arias in a very adversarial manner, making no effort to hide his hostility. But some people (including me to some degree) have been bothered at times at how disrespectful Martinez had been to Dr. Samuels. There's an edge of contempt to it at times. I know it's a tactic for discrediting a witness, but it offends me some the bullying, contemptuous tone he often uses. LOL Maybe it reminds me too much of how my father could be.





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