Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * - 1 votes

The True Meaning of Life


  • Please log in to reply
251 replies to this topic

#106    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,434 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:33 AM

View Postfullywired, on 15 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I don't know what you believe, all I know is you said that you had evidence but you can't provide it .Nothing you have posted is evidence of the existence of God but only your beliefs and no matter how you dress it up it remains the same and trying the old ploy of if you don't have an answer ask a question  won.t work with me


fullywired
And not having an answer to a question wont work with me either. I want to know why you dont accept the normal evidences of life for the existence of god but do for more mundane things What would you do when you encountered something nonmundane in your life ? Ths might help me understand why you cant seem to get the concept of  having objective personal evidences for every thing we encounter in life which do not and never have require/d "scientific" validation. Most modern educated people employ scientific method as a part of the business of life.They are trained or taught to do so from birth.

Why do you suppose it won't work for gods, or angels, or ghosts, or paranormal abilities? Mnn, (thinking out loud) could it be because you refuse to believe such things exist?

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#107    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,434 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:47 AM

View PostIamsSon, on 16 February 2013 - 04:45 AM, said:

My point remains:  how would one go about examining evidence of "godhood?"  What method would be used?  How would the results be validated?

I have a somewhat unusual, but not unique, perspective on god, coming from my personal experiences. In theory a god such as that known to moses, or abraham or to me, is/can manifest as, real and solid, and its existence could be tested, IF humans had the ability to do so.  Certainly and absolutely god can manifest quite solidly, and his miracles and powers are measurable and physical.

But given that we would fail to be able to test a human from a millenia or so in our future, if it did not want to be tested, I think logically, that any testing for/of god   (or a being with the powers and abilities of god) will depend on "his" cooperation in the process. Any way, the existence of god is not really  the province of science. Or, to put it round the other way, the significance , role, and purpose of god is not affected by whether science can confirm hs existence.

God is a being engaged in a physical, personal relationship and connection, with human beings. It is really only necesary for each individual to KNOW god for gods role in that relationship to work effectively.

  And absolute faith works just as effectively (and sometimes better in my experience) than actually living with and "knowing " god in a physical way.  Belief is a more effective driver than knowledge in human psychology. I knew my dad was real, but it was my faith and belief in him as my father, which drove me through childhood and adolescence.
Ps  god is only a name we give to an entity with certain characteristics or parameters  Anyone determined to deny the existence of god can just alter the characteristics or parameters they want to find in god, and say "Well if you can prove its physical existence it can't BE god." To me that is  nonsense . God is what god is.

Edited by Mr Walker, 16 February 2013 - 08:52 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#108    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,434 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 08:59 AM

View Posteight bits, on 16 February 2013 - 08:04 AM, said:

IamsSon



I wasn't aware those were points. They, along with your earlier



look like questions, requests for information. I gave you some advice about where, if anywhere, answers might be found, that's all. I didn't realize you weren't asking to find out information, but only making a point.

Anyway, my question to you really was a question.



I asked, because the matter touches on some of the points raised in my earlier post in this thread, # 67, from a few days ago.

I'll answer first, if you like. No. When I look at Mr Walker's posts in light of what Campbell and Jung explained, it appears that whether Mr Walker's experiences can furnish a true meaning for his own life doesn't depend on whether his experiences are physical or supernatural. That may be important for other reasons, but not so important for the topic.

I am not denying that any fact whatsoever is nice to know, just asserting that not every factual controversy bears on every question that comes up in life.
The more I read about the personal and professional lives of freud and jung, the more i discount their relevance to modern knolwedge and ethical behaviour or scientific understandings.

Certainly they were the fathers of modern psycho analysis; and much modern psychology and some psychiatry is built from their beginnings,  but if a modern professional, or even I, went back and held a discussion with them, I think we could pull a lot of their beliefs, fancies, prejudices and conclusions, apart very easily.  They were holding bright candles but they were also surrounded by utter darkness in terms of knowledgege and understanding about the nature of the human mind, compared with a person from today. I dont know enough about Campbell to make the same claim.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#109    eight bits

eight bits

    ...

  • Member
  • 6,199 posts
  • Joined:24 May 2007

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:11 AM

Or, in other words, the progress of knowledge has continued briskly since these pioneers died. That's good news, and something which each of them, I am confident, would be glad to hear.

However, I quoted Campbell and Jung on "philosophical" matters, because they had articulated a viewpoint about those particular things in a way that has stood up well, in my opinion, to the passage of time. Whether they were correct in saying what I quoted is, of course, discussable, which explains why I brought them up here.

This seems to be my thread for quotes. Having quoted the fictional Maximus, I'll quote his boss, the real-life Marcus Aurelius,

(I)f there are gods, (death) is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve you in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a world devoid of gods or devoid of providence?

(Meditations, Book II) Marcus went on to profess belief in the gods of his people, and their benevolent interest in human affairs. The quoted consideration of alternative views beisdes his own nicely illustrates that the search for meaning, icluding coming to terms with death, can be robust to theological opinion.

Edited by eight bits, 16 February 2013 - 11:12 AM.

Posted Image

#110    fullywired

fullywired

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,099 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 16 February 2013 - 11:27 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 16 February 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

And not having an answer to a question wont work with me either. I want to know why you dont accept the normal evidences of life for the existence of god but do for more mundane things What would you do when you encountered something nonmundane in your life ? Ths might help me understand why you cant seem to get the concept of  having objective personal evidences for every thing we encounter in life which do not and never have require/d "scientific" validation. Most modern educated people employ scientific method as a part of the business of life.They are trained or taught to do so from birth.

Why do you suppose it won't work for gods, or angels, or ghosts, or paranormal abilities? Mnn, (thinking out loud) could it be because you refuse to believe such things exist?

View PostMr Walker, on 16 February 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

And not having an answer to a question wont work with me either. I want to know why you dont accept the normal evidences of life for the existence of god but do for more mundane things What would you do when you encountered something nonmundane in your life ? Ths might help me understand why you cant seem to get the concept of  having objective personal evidences for every thing we encounter in life which do not and never have require/d "scientific" validation. Most modern educated people employ scientific method as a part of the business of life.They are trained or taught to do so from birth.

Why do you suppose it won't work for gods, or angels, or ghosts, or paranormal abilities? Mnn, (thinking out loud) could it be because you refuse to believe such things exist?

Let's go back to my original post , ,after a claim by you that you possessed evidence of the existence of god I requested you to share it .but you seem very reluctant to do that instead you keep waltzing round the houses..However I will answer your last question ,I do not believe in ghosts,or angels and other paranormal abilities ,so if you have evidence for those also ,I would welcome it and remember the criteria no flights of the imagination, to paraphrase Sgt  Joe Friday "just the facts ma'm"      Verifiable facts please

fullywired

Edited by fullywired, 16 February 2013 - 11:29 AM.

Posted Image  



"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#111    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,434 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 12:44 PM

View Posteight bits, on 16 February 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

Or, in other words, the progress of knowledge has continued briskly since these pioneers died. That's good news, and something which each of them, I am confident, would be glad to hear.

However, I quoted Campbell and Jung on "philosophical" matters, because they had articulated a viewpoint about those particular things in a way that has stood up well, in my opinion, to the passage of time. Whether they were correct in saying what I quoted is, of course, discussable, which explains why I brought them up here.

This seems to be my thread for quotes. Having quoted the fictional Maximus, I'll quote his boss, the real-life Marcus Aurelius,

(I)f there are gods, (death) is not a thing to be afraid of, for the gods will not involve you in evil; but if indeed they do not exist, or if they have no concern about human affairs, what is it to me to live in a world devoid of gods or devoid of providence?

(Meditations, Book II) Marcus went on to profess belief in the gods of his people, and their benevolent interest in human affairs. The quoted consideration of alternative views beisdes his own nicely illustrates that the search for meaning, icluding coming to terms with death, can be robust to theological opinion.

Most definitely. Although my fav. maxim on the topic is, "do not go gentle into that good night, but  rage rage against the dying of the light" to slightly paraphrase.

  Personally I am still not convinced of the practical uses of either theology or philosophy, apart from exercising the mind. That is valuable and useful in itself of course .

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#112    Mr Walker

Mr Walker

    Forum Divinity

  • Member
  • 15,434 posts
  • Joined:09 Nov 2005
  • Gender:Not Selected
  • Location:Australia

  • Sometimes the Phantom leaves the jungle, and walks the streets of the city like an ordinary man.

Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:10 PM

View Postfullywired, on 16 February 2013 - 11:27 AM, said:

Let's go back to my original post , ,after a claim by you that you possessed evidence of the existence of god I requested you to share it .but you seem very reluctant to do that instead you keep waltzing round the houses..However I will answer your last question ,I do not believe in ghosts,or angels and other paranormal abilities ,so if you have evidence for those also ,I would welcome it and remember the criteria no flights of the imagination, to paraphrase Sgt  Joe Friday "just the facts ma'm"   Verifiable facts please

fullywired

Let's go back to the beginning. I claimed personal objective evidences for the existence of god and angels, the same as I have personal objective evidences for the existence of my dog and everything else in my life.

I HAVE shared the nature of those objective  evidences.   So; one can touch an angel,or a manifestation of god, one can see an angel, one can hear an angel. one can converse on various levels with an angel. It can provide information you can not know for yourself. It can supply visions of the future. It can give guidance. It can transfer physical power to you. It can heal These are objective physical evidences of its existence and indeed of its nature and abilities. An angel can be seen by others at the same time you see it. It can be recognosed (like a dog) from established "taxonomical" parameters It interacts in observable and verifiable physical ways with the ordinary mundane world around it casting shadows creating light etc. You can't walk through it. It bruises you when it sticks its finger in your chest to make a point and so on.

Now these are the sort of objective personal evidences by which you and i (and every living human being) establish the solidity, reality, and objective independent existence, of EVERYTHING around us, are they not ? So why should they not work to establish the objective indpendent existence of an angel or of god?


And yes I have personal objective evidences of some paranormal occurences and of ghosts. There are many for which i do not have any personal evidences and on which I still suspend judgement. I do not know what many of these things are( eg ghosts) but they fit the  physical classification humans give for ghosts

. I also have personal objective evidences for strange and inexplicable things in the night sky. Not exactly UFOs but certainly unidentified and flyimg or hovering in the night sky.  You may be pleased to note tha t i have no personal evidences for big foot yetis or alien beings, although my father once met a  very strange creature (unclassified) in the australian bush which was also witnessed by others with him. His best description was  that it was big and clumsy and looked like a leafy sea dragon the size of a cow.

He might have been spinning me a yarn. I am open to that possibilty. My mum knew when anyone in the family was badly injured or dying even when it was unexpected and some distance away eg an accident. That was independently verified many times. And no, over her life of ninety years there have been no false alarms. She was always correct.

I dont claim things as objectively existent without personal factual verifications. When i see something without a way of objectively verifying its existence, I suspend belief and disbelief and file it away for future study and reference.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#113    fullywired

fullywired

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 4,099 posts
  • Joined:16 Apr 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK

Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 16 February 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Let's go back to the beginning. I claimed personal objective evidences for the existence of god and angels, the same as I have personal objective evidences for the existence of my dog and everything else in my life.

I HAVE shared the nature of those objective  evidences.   So; one can touch an angel,or a manifestation of god, one can see an angel, one can hear an angel. one can converse on various levels with an angel. It can provide information you can not know for yourself. It can supply visions of the future. It can give guidance. It can transfer physical power to you. It can heal These are objective physical evidences of its existence and indeed of its nature and abilities. An angel can be seen by others at the same time you see it. It can be recognosed (like a dog) from established "taxonomical" parameters It interacts in observable and verifiable physical ways with the ordinary mundane world around it casting shadows creating light etc. You can't walk through it. It bruises you when it sticks its finger in your chest to make a point and so on.

Now these are the sort of objective personal evidences by which you and i (and every living human being) establish the solidity, reality, and objective independent existence, of EVERYTHING around us, are they not ? So why should they not work to establish the objective indpendent existence of an angel or of god?


And yes I have personal objective evidences of some paranormal occurences and of ghosts. There are many for which i do not have any personal evidences and on which I still suspend judgement. I do not know what many of these things are( eg ghosts) but they fit the  physical classification humans give for ghosts

. I also have personal objective evidences for strange and inexplicable things in the night sky. Not exactly UFOs but certainly unidentified and flyimg or hovering in the night sky.  You may be pleased to note tha t i have no personal evidences for big foot yetis or alien beings, although my father once met a  very strange creature (unclassified) in the australian bush which was also witnessed by others with him. His best description was  that it was big and clumsy and looked like a leafy sea dragon the size of a cow.

He might have been spinning me a yarn. I am open to that possibilty. My mum knew when anyone in the family was badly injured or dying even when it was unexpected and some distance away eg an accident. That was independently verified many times. And no, over her life of ninety years there have been no false alarms. She was always correct.

I dont claim things as objectively existent without personal factual verifications. When i see something without a way of objectively verifying its existence, I suspend belief and disbelief and file it away for future study and reference.

I can see the problem here you are .presenting subjective impressions as objective ,whereas I do not .

I found this excerpt in a longer piece but i will only post the relevant bit, ,this is a quote from that piece

.
Easy Ways to Remember Objective and Subjective
Objective : sounds like the word object. You should be objective whenever you are discussing an object, something concrete that you can hold or touch. The facts that make up your objective statement should also be concrete, solid objects.
Subjective : is just the opposite. You can’t point to subjective subjects. They are all in your head and your past experiences. Subjective opinions are ephemeral and subject to any number of factors that can range from facts to emotions.

Examples of Objective and Subjective
Objective : scientific facts are objective as are mathematical proofs; essentially anything that can be backed up with solid data.
Subjective : opinions, interpretations, and any type of marketing presentation are all subjective.
Summary:
1.Objective and subjective statements are used by speakers to get their points across.
2.Objective statements are facts that can be verified by third parties while subjective statements may or may not be entirely true as they are colored by the opinions of the speaker.
3.Objective statements are most commonly found in the hard sciences, whereas subjective statements are generally used to describe the arts.

.  So if you have  concrete evidence that can be backed up with data please post it and forget about walls and dogs these are things not in dispute and I don't require evidence of them

    fullywired

Posted Image  



"Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense."
-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#114    AquilaChrysaetos

AquilaChrysaetos

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 590 posts
  • Joined:01 Dec 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Wherever the wind takes me...

  • "Some people wish to be the sun, so they can brighten your day. I wish to be the moon, which shines down upon you in your darkest hour."

Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:33 AM

View PostSean93, on 09 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

Your entire life meaning works towards death though, the be-all-end-all of the cult of Christ is physical death. Life can have a lot of broad meanings and we can choose that meaning or it may just come along and 'feel' right. Preparing for death through life isn't the kind of life I would like to be living and sucks all the 'life' out of life itself because it's looked at as some speck compared to death and that seducing eternity found in scripture. Like you said, without god, death would just be empty so you're working towards meeting your god and the only way you'll really ever be in his eternal embrace is when you're dead, something Christ's followers seem to veer on obsession over - a life of servitude and serf  it seems with constant thoughts of how wonderful it will be to be dead.  

Of course, death to Christ's people doesn't matter if they meet him as they simply transist to another part of life; death itself seems to mean being cut off from god according to the bible: "Those who believe in me shall never die."...not very life-fulfilling for the 4 billion non-believers in Christ is it? They might as well make the meaning in the 'now' rather than hope for a meaning in death. Sure you can say that your kids or family give you meaning to live but the whole consensus among Christ's followers is that this life is but a mere preparatory stage for the real deal and that those kids and family members should be saved for the hereafter - their life is spent preparing for death because everything else is futile in the end...**** that, We pay or this life with death, hardship, sadness and sickness; to have the mettle of our souls weighed at the end of something like life, which we were giving without a choice or say in the matter, is sadistic. If i'd have kicked and screamed to become a human then I would have no need for protest...but I didn't choose it.

Matthew 13:44

You may view it as folly for me to put everything I have into the kingdom of heaven, but the end result will prove more fruitful than things may appear to you right now. I only hope and pray that you could see that... :hmm:

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

Posted Image


#115    IamsSon

IamsSon

    Unobservable Matter

  • Member
  • 11,863 posts
  • Joined:01 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

  • ďIf you canít explain it simply, you donít understand it well enough.Ē ~ Albert Einstein

Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:14 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 16 February 2013 - 08:47 AM, said:

I have a somewhat unusual, but not unique, perspective on god, coming from my personal experiences. In theory a god such as that known to moses, or abraham or to me, is/can manifest as, real and solid, and its existence could be tested, IF humans had the ability to do so.  Certainly and absolutely god can manifest quite solidly, and his miracles and powers are measurable and physical.

But given that we would fail to be able to test a human from a millenia or so in our future, if it did not want to be tested, I think logically, that any testing for/of god   (or a being with the powers and abilities of god) will depend on "his" cooperation in the process. Any way, the existence of god is not really  the province of science. Or, to put it round the other way, the significance , role, and purpose of god is not affected by whether science can confirm hs existence.

God is a being engaged in a physical, personal relationship and connection, with human beings. It is really only necesary for each individual to KNOW god for gods role in that relationship to work effectively.

  And absolute faith works just as effectively (and sometimes better in my experience) than actually living with and "knowing " god in a physical way.  Belief is a more effective driver than knowledge in human psychology. I knew my dad was real, but it was my faith and belief in him as my father, which drove me through childhood and adolescence.
Ps  god is only a name we give to an entity with certain characteristics or parameters  Anyone determined to deny the existence of god can just alter the characteristics or parameters they want to find in god, and say "Well if you can prove its physical existence it can't BE god." To me that is  nonsense . God is what god is.
I think you've hit upon the issue, Mr. W., but it was not quite a direct hit.

I read story online once (and I have since been googling for it, but have not found it again) about God appearing to an atheist and trying to prove to him that He is God.  In the end, after God has told the man things he had done that the man thought no one else knew about, had revealed things that would happen in the future, and had transported the man halfway across the world instantaneously, the man was still unconvinced since he could not be sure that God was not simply a very powerful extraterrestrial, a contemporary human with an amazing mutation, or even a visitor from the far future (quoting Arthur C. Clarke, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic") .  I think any attempt made to prove the existence of even the physical manifestation of God you have interacted with, would meet with the same results.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#116    Frank Merton

Frank Merton

    Blue fish

  • Member
  • 14,246 posts
  • Joined:22 Jan 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam

  • fmerton.blogspot.com

Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:26 PM

As a Buddhist atheist with a good deal of contact with Western ideas, including its religions, it occurred to me once what I would do if one fine morning there appeared Jesus Glorified with the Hosts of Heaven in the sky singing his praises in the Second Coming.

Now since I know as surely as I know almost anything that these ideas are nonsense, I would figure some elaborate fraud, maybe for venal purpose, maybe a pious fraud, but at any rate a fraud was under way.  I would think even a Christian believer would suspect such a possibility.

So what would I do.  Well, I would play along -- obviously these people have an advanced technology and so it would probably be best to keep my head down.  Unlike Christians, I have no problem about worshiping false gods.  Whatever cooks the goose.

A real God, knowing that divinity is really not a very hard thing to play at, isn't going to be bothered.


#117    cultanorak

cultanorak

    Alien Embryo

  • Banned
  • Pip
  • 103 posts
  • Joined:07 Jul 2010
  • Gender:Male

  • I imagine you have orders to destroy me?

Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:19 PM

once you get rid of all the religous spiritual stuff which doesn't have any real evidence whatsover to back it up the meaning of life is just survival of the fittest for every creature to be evolutionarily successful. We live in a meaningless cold and mechanical universe where the strong flourish and prosper at the expense of the weak and although this is savage and cruel it is the natural order. Religon was just one of those things we had to sheild us from the true bleakness of existence and even that has been shown up as the lie it is.

It is impossible to reconcile the concept of a benevolent creator with the abject reality of existence

As the great David Attenborough said when asked about his views on God:

''My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'.''


Can any christian give a satisfactory answer to this? I doubt it.

Edited by yearofthehater, 17 February 2013 - 05:17 PM.


#118    Mystic Crusader

Mystic Crusader

    Poltergeist

  • Member
  • 2,137 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

  • "What would you rather be, a bus driver, or a super terrorist?"

Posted 17 February 2013 - 05:29 PM

View Postyearofthehater, on 17 February 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:


It is impossible to reconcile the concept of a benevolent creator with the abject reality of existence


Exactly.

Drunk with blood..
Dangerous cult leaders
Jewish gematria # 1162:
Who is like God
The epitome of evil

#119    IamsSon

IamsSon

    Unobservable Matter

  • Member
  • 11,863 posts
  • Joined:01 Jul 2006
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Houston, TX

  • ďIf you canít explain it simply, you donít understand it well enough.Ē ~ Albert Einstein

Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:21 PM

View Postyearofthehater, on 17 February 2013 - 04:19 PM, said:

once you get rid of all the religous spiritual stuff which doesn't have any real evidence whatsover to back it up the meaning of life is just survival of the fittest for every creature to be evolutionarily successful. We live in a meaningless cold and mechanical universe where the strong flourish and prosper at the expense of the weak and although this is savage and cruel it is the natural order. Religon was just one of those things we had to sheild us from the true bleakness of existence and even that has been shown up as the lie it is.

It is impossible to reconcile the concept of a benevolent creator with the abject reality of existence

As the great David Attenborough said when asked about his views on God:

''My response is that when Creationists talk about God creating every individual species as a separate act, they always instance hummingbirds, or orchids, sunflowers and beautiful things. But I tend to think instead of a parasitic worm that is boring through the eye of a boy sitting on the bank of a river in West Africa, [a worm] that's going to make him blind. And [I ask them], 'Are you telling me that the God you believe in, who you also say is an all-merciful God, who cares for each one of us individually, are you saying that God created this worm that can live in no other way than in an innocent child's eyeball? Because that doesn't seem to me to coincide with a God who's full of mercy'.''


Can any christian give a satisfactory answer to this? I doubt it.
OK, let's see, God set up a nice garden for Man to live in.  God forbade man one thing: eat from every tree except one.  Man decided to eat from that one tree which resulted in him being kicked out of the Garden and into the wild world outside, where not everything was cotton candy and dew drops, where sharks and ebola and eye-eating parasitic worms thrived.  So, basically, decisions have consequences, some of them far-reaching and may affect others besides the one making the decision.

"But then with me that horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's mind which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" - Charles Darwin, in a letter to William Graham on July 3, 1881

#120    CosmoLogic

CosmoLogic

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 9 posts
  • Joined:12 Feb 2013
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Mutha Errf

Posted 17 February 2013 - 09:12 PM

Maybe what you're searching for is enlightenment. Many other people seek this too and its a journey that deals with yourself.

On a side note, "research" shows humans are devolving. We were once 1-dimensional organisms, just something to think about.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users