11638 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

I should have added the next to my post with the horoscope:

SWISS EPHEMERIS for the year 2194 BCE

Julian Calendar 1 Jan. 2194 BCE == Greg. Calendar 14 Dec. 2195 BCE
The year -2193 astronomical counting style corresponds to year 2194 B.C.E historical counting style.

http://www.astro.com...00/ae_m2193.pdf


Julian Calendar 1 Oct. 2194 BCE == Greg. Calendar 14 Sept. 2194 BCE
The year -2193 astronomical counting style corresponds to year 2194 B.C.E historical counting style.

So 23 Oct.(Julian Calendar) = 6 Oct (Gregorian Calendar)

http://www.astro.com...ph/swepha_e.htm

It is a bit unclear what calendar they use in the horsocope and the ephemeris, Julian or Gregorian.

Anyway, have fun, lol.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 December 2011 - 06:12 PM.

[Abramelin]

Oh boy, it gets even better (again, lol).

First the OLB script:



Notice the OLB for the letter -A- and -W-.

One might think that if there's a 'kroder' near the pole star 'carrying the time around the Yule wheel (the Wheelbarrow or Big Dipper) then maybe these letters -A- and -W- are also near, -A- and -W- because they represent the Beginning and End... of Wralda's name - see the circle with the letters of his name positioned around it)



Well, they are: they are called Cassiopeia and Cepheus.

What's nice is that according to mythology these two persons were Queen and King and married to eachother.

Cassiopeia is a constellation in the northern sky, named after the vain queen Cassiopeia in Greek mythology, who boasted about her unrivalled beauty. Cassiopea was one of the 48 constellations listed by the 2nd century Greek astronomer Ptolemy, and it remains one of the 88 modern constellations today. It is easily recognizable due to its distinctive 'W' shape, formed by five bright stars. It is bordered by Andromeda to the south, Perseus to the southeast, and Cepheus to the north. She is opposite the Big Dipper, and from northern latitudes can be seen at her clearest in early November.


The constellation is named after Cassiopeia, a queen in Greek mythology. Cassiopeia was the wife of King Cepheus, and became jealous of the beauty of their daughter Andromeda was very beautiful. When she boasted for her beauty, Poseidon, the sea god, sentenced Andromeda to be tied to a rock with a sea monster awaiting her. The hero Perseus defeated the monster, and claimed her as his wife,[1] but Cepheus and Cassiopea preferred her to marry another man, Phineus. In the ensuing battle, Perseus slew his opposers, and Cepheus and Cassiopeia were placed next to each other among the stars by Poseidon, Cassiopeia being placed upside down for half the year because of her vanity.

[urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiopeia_(constellation)[/url]

http://www.ianridpat...les/cepheus.htm
http://en.wikipedia....ng_of_Aethiopia

Most people can recognize the Big Dipper. It looks like a wheelbarrow, or a plow, or a pot with a curved handle. It has seven stars: four making up the pot, and three for the handle. The faintest is the "pot" star where the handle is attached.

Following the handle's final curve draws the eye to Polaris, the North Star. It is part of the Little Dipper.


The next "easy" marker is the constellation Cassiopeia. It is shaped like a "W" (or "M"), with the triple-star open side facing Polaris. A line drawn from Polaris to the east-most star of Cassiopeia cuts past the west-most stars of Perseus to the Triangulum, a triangle of stars.


http://mike-dehaan.s...-shower-a272491



Btw: here Cepheus looks like a house with a pointed roof, but I have seen Cepheus being depicted as the OLB letter -A- (a triangle without the bottom horizontal).



==

The Big Dipper can be used to determine time:

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animations/ancientastro/dipperclock.swf

http://astro.unl.edu...ipperclock.html

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/

An explanation of how:
http://www.dmns.org/...tellingTime.pdf

Edited by Abramelin, 19 December 2011 - 09:17 PM.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 19 December 2011 - 08:53 PM, said:

Oh boy, it gets even better (again, lol).

First the OLB script:



Notice the OLB for the letter -A- and -W-.

One might think that if there's a 'kroder' near the pole star 'carrying the time around the Yule wheel (the Wheelbarrow or Big Dipper) then maybe these letters -A- and -W- are also near, -A- and -W- because they represent the Beginning and End... of Wralda's name - see the circle with the letters of his name positioned around it)



Well, they are: they are called Cassiopeia and Cepheus.

What's nice is that according to mythology these two persons were Queen and King and married to eachother.

Cassiopeia is a constellation in the northern sky, named after the vain queen Cassiopeia in Greek mythology, who boasted about her unrivalled beauty. Cassiopea was one of the 48 constellations listed by the 2nd century Greek astronomer Ptolemy, and it remains one of the 88 modern constellations today. It is easily recognizable due to its distinctive 'W' shape, formed by five bright stars. It is bordered by Andromeda to the south, Perseus to the southeast, and Cepheus to the north. She is opposite the Big Dipper, and from northern latitudes can be seen at her clearest in early November.


The constellation is named after Cassiopeia, a queen in Greek mythology. Cassiopeia was the wife of King Cepheus, and became jealous of the beauty of their daughter Andromeda was very beautiful. When she boasted for her beauty, Poseidon, the sea god, sentenced Andromeda to be tied to a rock with a sea monster awaiting her. The hero Perseus defeated the monster, and claimed her as his wife,[1] but Cepheus and Cassiopea preferred her to marry another man, Phineus. In the ensuing battle, Perseus slew his opposers, and Cepheus and Cassiopeia were placed next to each other among the stars by Poseidon, Cassiopeia being placed upside down for half the year because of her vanity.

[urlhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cassiopeia_(constellation)[/url]

http://www.ianridpat...les/cepheus.htm
http://en.wikipedia....ng_of_Aethiopia

Most people can recognize the Big Dipper. It looks like a wheelbarrow, or a plow, or a pot with a curved handle. It has seven stars: four making up the pot, and three for the handle. The faintest is the "pot" star where the handle is attached.

Following the handle's final curve draws the eye to Polaris, the North Star. It is part of the Little Dipper.


The next "easy" marker is the constellation Cassiopeia. It is shaped like a "W" (or "M"), with the triple-star open side facing Polaris. A line drawn from Polaris to the east-most star of Cassiopeia cuts past the west-most stars of Perseus to the Triangulum, a triangle of stars.


http://mike-dehaan.s...-shower-a272491



Btw: here Cepheus looks like a house with a pointed roof, but I have seen Cepheus being depicted as the OLB letter -A- (a triangle without the bottom horizontal).



==

The Big Dipper can be used to determine time:

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/animations/ancientastro/dipperclock.swf

http://astro.unl.edu...ipperclock.html

http://astro.unl.edu/classaction/

An explanation of how:
http://www.dmns.org/...tellingTime.pdf

It's very interesting what you found. Accidentely A.W in top of the Wralda wheel could be interpreted as alpha - kroder- oomega.

Edited by Knul, 19 December 2011 - 09:22 PM.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 19 December 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

It's very interesting what you found. Accidentely A.W in top of the Wralda wheel could be interpreted as alpha - kroder- oomega.

That's what I have been saying for a year, lol.

Well, unless you mean a word, "AKO".

In OLB it should be: "AKW".

But the 'Kroder' - Big Dipper is opposite Cassiopeia (-W-),the Queen, and Cepheus (-A-), the King.

Not in the middle of them.

+++++

DAMN !!

It's WAK !!, or Wâk in OLB-ish (and what was on that (memorial/tomb)stone of the Over de Linden family??

Cassiopeia-Cepheus-Big Dipper.

From the OLB:

Skrêven to Ljuwert. Nêi âtland svnken is thaet thria thû sond fjvwer hvndred aend njugon aend fjvwertigoste jêr, thaet is nei kersten rêknong that tvelfhvndred sex aend fiftigoste jêr. Hidde tobinomath oera Linda. - Wâk.

Written at Liuwert, in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged—that is, according to the Christian reckoning, the year 1256.

Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda.—Watch.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#aa

+++++++

I have always wondered about that word or warning...

++++++++++++++++++


This is the OLB letter used in the word "Wâk":



If you project that on Cepheus, the elongated line of the -â- almost touches the Pole Star, Polaris

+++++++++++++++++

De ster staat ook bekend als Alruccabah, Cynosura, Phoenice, Loodsster, Tramontana, Navigatoria, Ster van Arcady, Yilduz en Mismar. De ster maakt deel uit van de Pleiadengroep.

(The star is also know as Alruccabah, Cynosura, Phoenice, Lead Star, Tramontana, Navigatoria, Star of Arcady, Yilduz and Mismar. The star is part of the Pleiades group).

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris

+++++++++++

What the hell should we 'watch'?

Polaris? The alternative names of Polaris? What??

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 December 2011 - 10:19 PM.

[Abramelin]

Hello anyone, I am a 200% sure I saw some stone/tombstone/whatever-stone created by Over de Linden, and with the word "WAK" ("watch") inscribed on it.

Can't find it right now.

++++

EDIT:

I want to know what I should "wak"/watch.

A "wak-star"/"waak-ster"/watchstar??

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 December 2011 - 11:23 PM.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 19 December 2011 - 09:27 PM, said:

That's what I have been saying for a year, lol.

Well, unless you mean a word, "AKO".

In OLB it should be: "AKW".

But the 'Kroder' - Big Dipper is opposite Cassiopeia (-W-),the Queen, and Cepheus (-A-), the King.

Not in the middle of them.

+++++

DAMN !!

It's WAK !!, or Wâk in OLB-ish (and what was on that (memorial/tomb)stone of the Over de Linden family??


Cassiopeia-Cepheus-Big Dipper.

From the OLB:

Skrêven to Ljuwert. Nêi âtland svnken is thaet thria thû sond fjvwer hvndred aend njugon aend fjvwertigoste jêr, thaet is nei kersten rêknong that tvelfhvndred sex aend fiftigoste jêr. Hidde tobinomath oera Linda. - Wâk.

Written at Liuwert, in the three thousand four hundred and forty-ninth year after Atland was submerged—that is, according to the Christian reckoning, the year 1256.

Hiddo, surnamed Over de Linda.—Watch.

http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#aa

+++++++

I have always wondered about that word or warning...

++++++++++++++++++


This is the OLB letter used in the word "Wâk":



If you project that on Cepheus, the elongated line of the -â- almost touches the Pole Star, Polaris

+++++++++++++++++

De ster staat ook bekend als Alruccabah, Cynosura, Phoenice, Loodsster, Tramontana, Navigatoria, Ster van Arcady, Yilduz en Mismar. De ster maakt deel uit van de Pleiadengroep.

(The star is also know as Alruccabah, Cynosura, Phoenice, Lead Star, Tramontana, Navigatoria, Star of Arcady, Yilduz and Mismar. The star is part of the Pleiades group).

http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris

+++++++++++

What the hell should we 'watch'?

Polaris? The alternative names of Polaris? What??

.

Its ancient name was Cynosūra, from the Greek κυνόσουρα "the dog’s tail" (reflecting a time when the constellation of Ursa Minor "Little Bear" was taken to represent a dog), whence the English word cynosure.[11][12]. Most other names are directly tied to its role as pole star.

In English, it was known as "pole star" or "north star", in Spenser also "steadfast star". An older English name, attested since the 14th century, is lodestar "guiding star", cognate with the Old Norse leiðarstjarna, Middle High German leitsterne. Use of the name Polaris in English dates to the 17th century. It is an ellipsis for the Latin stella polaris "pole star". Another Latin name is stella maris "sea-star", from an early time also used as a title of the Blessed Virgin Mary, popularized in the hymn Ave Maris Stella (8th century).[13] In traditional Indian astronomy, its name is Sanskrit dhruva tāra, literally "fixed star". Its name in medieval Islamic astronomy was variously reported as Mismar "needle, nail", al-kutb al-shamaliyy "the northern axle/spindle", al-kaukab al-shamaliyy "north star". The name Alruccabah or Ruccabah reported in 16th century western sources was that of the constellation.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris\

Just in case some of you forgot the Frisians venerated Maria above God or Jesus.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 19 December 2011 - 11:56 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 19 December 2011 - 11:52 PM, said:

Just in case some of you forgot the Frisians venerated Maria above God or Jesus.

From (page 279-280): "Verhandeling over het Westland" (1844) Buddingh
(sorry too busy to translate)

[Otharus]

Knul, on 19 December 2011 - 05:20 PM, said:

A good indication, that the OLB stems from the 19th century is the word [size="2"] stât,-a = state,-s, which is not Oldfrisian.

It is.
Richthofen's Oldfrisian dictionary (1840):

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 20 December 2011 - 11:28 AM, said:

It is.
Richthofen's Oldfrisian dictionary (1840):

Yes, I found that too, but Knul means "state" in the meanning of 'nation', not some private property or estate.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 December 2011 - 12:52 PM.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 19 December 2011 - 11:52 PM, said:

Its ancient name was Cynosūra, from the Greek κυνόσουρα "the dog’s tail" (reflecting a time when the constellation of Ursa Minor "Little Bear" was taken to represent a dog), whence the English word cynosure.[11][12]. Most other names are directly tied to its role as pole star.

In English, it was known as "pole star" or "north star", in Spenser also "steadfast star". An older English name, attested since the 14th century, is lodestar "guiding star", cognate with the Old Norse leiðarstjarna, Middle High German leitsterne. Use of the name Polaris in English dates to the 17th century. It is an ellipsis for the Latin stella polaris "pole star". Another Latin name is stella maris "sea-star", from an early time also used as a title of the Blessed Virgin Mary, popularized in the hymn Ave Maris Stella (8th century).[13] In traditional Indian astronomy, its name is Sanskrit dhruva tāra, literally "fixed star". Its name in medieval Islamic astronomy was variously reported as Mismar "needle, nail", al-kutb al-shamaliyy "the northern axle/spindle", al-kaukab al-shamaliyy "north star". The name Alruccabah or Ruccabah reported in 16th century western sources was that of the constellation.[14]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polaris\

Just in case some of you forgot the Frisians venerated Maria above God or Jesus.

.

Dutch:

De titel "Sterre der Zee" is in de Katholieke eredienst terechtgekomen door de verklaring van de naam "Maria" door de heilige Hiëronymus. Hij deelde de Hebreeuwse naam "Maryam" op in "Mar" en "Yam," wat in het Latijn neerkomt op "Stilla Maris" oftewel "druppel der Zee." Dit werd verbasterd tot "Stella Maris" oftewel "Sterre der Zee." Deze titel kwam weer in de wereldberoemde Lauretaanse Litanie terecht.

"Stella Maris" of Ster der Zee was eveneens een epitheton van de Godin Isis, Ishtar, Aphrodite en Venus. Het begrip komt in de antieke oudheid dus reeds voor en is in feite afgeleid van de functie van de planeet Venus (als ochtend- en avondster, richtpunt voor schippers), of van de Poolster (zelfde functie) die de axis mundi markeert, of ook nog van de ster Sirius die de Pleiaden aanvoert en door de Egyptenaren werd benut om de seizoenen, het tijdstip van het opkomend Nijlwater, te bepalen en hun kalender te ijken. Tussen de verering uit de oudheid en de katholieke Mariatitel is aldus geen rechtstreeks verband.

http://nl.wikipedia..../Sterre_der_Zee

English:

The title "Star of the Sea" entered the Catholic worship by the explanation of the name "Mary" by St. Jerome. He devided the Hebrew name "Maryam" into "Mar" and "Yam," which in Latin constitutes "Stilla Maris" or "drop the Sea." This was corrupted to "Stella Maris" or "Star of the Sea." This title in its turn entered the famous Lorettian Littany

"Stella Maris" or Star of the Sea and was also an epithet of the goddess Isis, Ishtar, Aphrodite and Venus. So the concept already shows up in antiquity and is in fact derived from the position of the planet Venus (as morning and evening, aiming point for boaters), or the Pole Star (same function) that marks the axis mundi, or even still the star Sirius which leads the Pleiades and was used by the Egyptians to determine the seasons and the time of the rising of the waters of the Nile, and to calibrate their calendar. Between the cult of antiquity and the Catholic title for Mary is thus no direct link.

Those "wak-stara", waak-sterren or watchstars... Venus, Polaris and Sirius?


++++

EDIT:

I think the conclusion of that Wiki page, "Between the cult of antiquity and the Catholic title for Mary is thus no direct link" a bit naive.

It's not to farfetched to assume much of the Isis and Venus cults was later adopted into the Catholic cult of Mary, including the title "Stella Maris", and a St. Jerome only doing his best to make it look like it had nothing to do with these ancient cults.


.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 December 2011 - 01:21 PM.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 19 December 2011 - 10:59 PM, said:

Hello anyone, I am a 200% sure I saw some stone/tombstone/whatever-stone created by Over de Linden, and with the word "WAK" ("watch") inscribed on it.

Can't find it right now.

.

It appears to be a coat of arms.

Anyone?

++++++

EDIT:

Found it:





Over de Linden had made the coat of arms himself (from old coins), and it showed 3 lime trees near a watering hole. At the bottom it says "WAK" in OLB script.

http://argyf.fryske-...eiding_9-54.pdf

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 December 2011 - 01:46 PM.

[Otharus]

Abramelin, on 20 December 2011 - 12:51 PM, said:

Yes, I found that too, but Knul means "state" in the meanning of 'nation', not some private property or estate.

It is an oldfrisian word, and in the OLB it is not used in the meaning of 'nation'.

His argument is invalid, AS ALWAYS.

There is not a single word or expression, used in OLB that would disprove its authenticity.

[Abramelin]

Otharus, on 20 December 2011 - 01:53 PM, said:

It is an oldfrisian word, and in the OLB it is not used in the meaning of 'nation'.

His argument is invalid, AS ALWAYS.

There is not a single word or expression, used in OLB that would disprove its authenticity.

Just a few of the many examples from the OLB:


THE BOOK OF ADELA’S FOLLOWERS.

Thrittich jêr aeftere dêi that thju folksmoder wmbrocht was thrvch thêne vreste Mâgy stand et er aerg vm to. Alle stâta thêr-er lidsa anda ôre syde thêre Wrsara, wêron fon vs ofkêrth aend vnder-et weld thes Magy kêmen, aend-et stand to frêsane, that er weldig skolde wertha vr-et êlle lând.

Thirty years after the day on which the Volksmoeder was murdered by the feared Magy, was a time of great distress. All the states that lie on the other side of the Weser had been wrested from us, and had fallen under the power of Magy, and it looked as if his power was to become supreme over the whole land.


THE BOOK OF ADELA’S FOLLOWERS.

Jesterdêi wêron-er mong jo tham allet folk to hâpa hropa wilde vmb tha âstlike stâta wither to hjara plyga to tvangande.

Yesterday there were among you those who would have called the whole people together, to compel the eastern states to return to their duty.


USEFUL EXTRACTS FROM THE WRITINGS LEFT BY MINNO.

Ne dvath maen nên rjucht men vnrjucht, alsa rist thêr twist aend twispalt emong tha maenniska aend stâta.

If instead of doing right, men will commit wrong, there will arise quarrels and differences among people and states.


THESE ARE THE THREE PRINCIPLES ON WHICH THESE LAWS ARE FOUNDED

3. Alrek wêt thaet-i fry aend vnforlêth wil lêva, aend that ôre that âk wille. Umbe sekur to wêsande send thesa setma aend domar makad.

Thaet folk Findas heth âk setma aend domar: men thissa ne send navt nêi tha rjucht, men allêna to bâta thêra prestera aend forsta, thana send hjara stâta immerthe fvl twispalt aend mord.

3. Every man knows that he wishes to live free and undisturbed, and that others wish the same thing.

To secure this, these laws and regulations are made.

The people of Finda have also their rules and regulations, but these are not made according to what is just—only for the advantage of priests and princes—therefore their states are full of disputes and murder.



.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 December 2011 - 02:21 PM.

[Abramelin]

Abramelin, on 20 December 2011 - 01:25 PM, said:

It appears to be a coat of arms.

Anyone?

++++++

EDIT:

Found it:





Over de Linden had made the coat of arms himself (from old coins), and it showed 3 lime trees near a watering hole. At the bottom it says "WAK" in OLB script.

http://argyf.fryske-...eiding_9-54.pdf

.

Must be my eyes again, but do you all see this thing, after WAK: ~   ??



Knul claims that this ~ - a tilde - that shows up between lines in the OLB is only meant for printing purposes, but what has printing to do with this metal coat of arms??

Over de Linden was really in love with the tilde:

http://www.gutenberg...images/p066.gif

.

Edited by Abramelin, 20 December 2011 - 03:05 PM.

[Otharus]

I know these fragments. State or estate is a plausible (and close to orig.) translation. But how would that prove that the text is new?

Imagine, a 'new' oldfrisian text is discovered and proven to be authentic.

It is a few hundred pages long, and older than any known oldfrisian text.

Would it be intelligent to expect and demand that it only has words in it that are already known from the texts we have and in the exact same meaning that we know them?

Wouldn't it be very possible that we would discover that some words and expressions are actually older than we thought?

Edited by Otharus, 20 December 2011 - 02:38 PM.