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Satanism: Another look at the spiritual "war"

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#16    Arpee

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:44 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 23 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Though many would not equate Set with this mythical "Satan". Set does not serve the same function and he is not an "evil" counterpart to Osiris or Horus, though he is generally not a great person to know. More like a creepy sinister uncle, as the young Horus found out, but not "Satan".

As I said before "Evil" can mean anything. One's person idea of Evil is not another. It was the Abrahamic faiths that called Satan "evil". That is their opinion. Satan and Set is the same.  The Lord of Darkness and Chaos that was associated with the planet Saturn.

Edited by Arpee, 23 June 2013 - 12:48 PM.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#17    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:46 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 23 June 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Though many would not equate Set with this mythical "Satan". Set does not serve the same function and he is not an "evil" counterpart to Osiris or Horus, though he is generally not a great person to know. More like a creepy sinister uncle, as the young Horus found out, but not "Satan".
Of course Satan is not to be identified with Set.  He was just blowing air asserting it.  The Zoroastrian association makes much more sense.


#18    xFelix

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Well, Arpee avoids the issue by redefining Satan.  To me what he says is not what "Satan" means, and he will generally be misunderstood as a result.

XFelix, however, persists with a more conventional understanding, and seems to think that I am repulsive if I use my mind and understand it is all absurd.
Nobody is avoiding an issue by redefining anything. Satan is the bad guy to Godmongers, and the hero to Satanists. Actually speaking the ones who redefined him are the God mongers. They openly admit that he was not only a being of good nature, but one of immense intelligence. Then they insert a story of how such a wise and good being opposes their God and bam remember God destroys all who oppose.. Now he is the root of all evil etc etc etc.

I simply turned your own rationalization against you. Saying that someone can do as they wish but it doesn't mean they have to is ridiculous.. But saying someone can believe what they want, but they don't have to is just outright outlandish. Whether we choose to believe what we want or not, or our very reasoning is none of your concern unless it directly affects you. Does someone else viewing Satan as the good guy cause you any harm?

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:50 PM

My main problem is this idea of "worship."  Why do we want to do it and why would a deity with any sense want it?  The only individuals I've ever wanted to worship were women, and that is a different thing.


#20    Arpee

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:52 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

My main problem is this idea of "worship."  Why do we want to do it and why would a deity with any sense want it?  The only individuals I've ever wanted to worship were women, and that is a different thing.

To most Satanists, "worship" of Satan just means working for, increasing the influence of the Satanic force of Change, Difference, and Diversity.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#21    xFelix

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:53 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

My main problem is this idea of "worship."  Why do we want to do it and why would a deity with any sense want it?  The only individuals I've ever wanted to worship were women, and that is a different thing.
That's a really cool story, how does this relate to others? If you don't want to worship anything, don't. It's completely irrational to sit there and take a stance of "I dont want to worship anything, so everybody else has to not worship with me"...

My posts consist of my opinions, beliefs, and experiences, feel free to disagree in a respectful manner.

I have a right to my beleifs, just as you have a right to not agree with them.

So long as we respect each other's beliefs, we won't have a single problem.


#22    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 12:58 PM

Belief in "Satan", and also in "God", free people to do bad things to those who do not follow their religion. The religionists firm belief in this superstition does not allow them to step "outside the box". As to them, these mythical creatures really exist, then everybody in the universe is subject to their beliefs, and there is no scope not to be part of this "system". There is a constant subtext, sometimes close to the surface or even in full view, and sometimes deeper and slyer, that to not believe is actually the same as being a follower, with or without self awareness, of this "Satan". This is no "spiritual war", it is a war by the superstitious believers on all others. Implying, even weakly, that non believers are doing the work of "Satan", is one of the steps to Auschwitz and other man made hells on Earth. This is a matter of this desire to have the "other" as the eternal enemy, a phrase used by the nazis against the Jews.

Edit. Actually when I say "religionists", I really mean Christians as they seem to be the ones with these issues. I was just trying to be a little less confrontational :)

Edited by Tutankhaten-pasheri, 23 June 2013 - 01:05 PM.


#23    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:00 PM

When I go to Temple I get on my knees and bow to the big Buddha they generally have, and twice a day I light joss sticks before the shrine in my house to my parents.

Most people call this "worship," but that makes no sense.  I'm fully aware that the Buddha is dead or in Nirvana (if that is something other than "dead"), and my parents have long ago reincarnated, so there is nothing to worship.

Commemoration by means of traditional ritual expression is how I see it.

Now as to "worship" by serving and obeying, what is wrong with the words "serving" and "obeying?"


#24    Arpee

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:03 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 23 June 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

Implying, even weakly, that non believers are doing the work of "Satan", is one of the steps to Auschwitz and other man made hells on Earth.

And who's fault is this? Satanists? Atheists (Non-believers)? Or the people actually doing the killing like the God believers?

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#25    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:06 PM

View PostArpee, on 23 June 2013 - 12:44 PM, said:

As I said before "Evil" can mean anything. One's person idea of Evil is not another. It was the Abrahamic faiths that called Satan "evil". That is their opinion. Satan and Set is the same.  The Lord of Darkness and Chaos that was associated with the planet Saturn.
No


#26    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:08 PM

View PostArpee, on 23 June 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

And who's fault is this? Satanists? Atheists (Non-believers)? Or the people actually doing the killing like the God believers?
Neither, it is a fault within us, a need to put blame onto those we do not like, the "other"


#27    Arpee

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:11 PM

View PostTutankhaten-pasheri, on 23 June 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

No

The one referred to as "Darkness" by the Christians and Jews the named "Satan".

The one referred to as "Darkness" by Ancient Egyptians they called "Set".

This is basic information found on Wikipedia.

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#28    Frank Merton

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:14 PM

There are two phenomena that need to be kept straight.  One is where a religion identifies a given deity with the deity of another group.  The Jews identified their angel Shatan with the Zoroastrian deity.

There is another phenomenon of back-identification, where after the fact people link deities.  This happened with the serpent in Eden with Satan, and it may be with Satan and Set, given certain similarities.


#29    Arpee

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:20 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

There are two phenomena that need to be kept straight.  One is where a religion identifies a given deity with the deity of another group.  The Jews identified their angel Shatan with the Zoroastrian deity.

Actually The Zoroastrian deity of darkness was called "Ahriman".
The Yezedis believed in an angel named "Shatan" though.

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

There is another phenomenon of back-identification, where after the fact people link deities.  This happened with the serpent in Eden with Satan, and it may be with Satan and Set, given certain similarities.

It was the bible that called "The Serpent" and "The Great Dragon" Satan:

"So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan" - Revelation 12:9

The Christians referred to the being of Darkness as "Satan"
The Ancient Egyptians referred to the being of Darkness as "Set".

Satan, Set, Great Dragon, Serpent, Devil, Chaos, Ahriman, whatever you choose to call him - is referring to that "Being of Darkness"

And Darkness being the Force of Chaos, Change, Rebirth (as Egyptians Understood it)...

"Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love." - 1 John 4:7-8

#30    GreenmansGod

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Posted 23 June 2013 - 01:47 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 23 June 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

When I go to Temple I get on my knees and bow to the big Buddha they generally have, and twice a day I light joss sticks before the shrine in my house to my parents.

Most people call this "worship," but that makes no sense.  I'm fully aware that the Buddha is dead or in Nirvana (if that is something other than "dead"), and my parents have long ago reincarnated, so there is nothing to worship.

Commemoration by means of traditional ritual expression is how I see it.

Now as to "worship" by serving and obeying, what is wrong with the words "serving" and "obeying?"

Hear hear, from the dirt worshiping, tree hugging, hippie, Druid. :nw:

"The moment you declare a set of ideas to be immune from criticism, satire, derision, or contempt, freedom of thought becomes impossible." Salman Rushdie





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