2 court-martialed in Iraqi's death

[4dplane]

BAGHDAD, Iraq -- Two U.S. soldiers were convicted Saturday on court-martial charges related to the shooting death of a 28-year-old Iraqi woman who was working with them as an interpreter.

The soldiers, Spc. Charley Hooser and Spc. Rami Dajani, were both convicted of making a false official statement to investigators after the killing of the translator, Luma, a mother of one daughter. The court requested that the victim's last name be withheld for her family's safety.

Hooser was also convicted of involuntary manslaughter, while Dajani was convicted of being an accessory after the fact. Dajani had faced an involuntary manslaughter charge at the beginning of his trial but it was dismissed by prosecutors.

Hooser was sentenced to three years in jail, demotion to the lowest enlisted Army rank, and forfeiture of pay to his wife after six months. He also received a bad conduct discharge. Dajani received 18 months in jail, reduction to the lowest rank, and a bad conduct discharge.

The incident happened at a U.S. base in Baghdad on Nov. 24, 2004, when Luma and the two men were joking around in a room where they worked.

The soldiers testified Hooser jokingly pointed the pistol at Luma's head and pulled the trigger, thinking Dajani had cleared it of ammunition. They originally claimed Luma had shot herself.

source

The woman was murdered - now if this happened in the states, would the sentence be the same - NO! - This is exactly why so many people hate America - we walk around saying "do as I say - not as I do!” the great hypocrites of the 21st century!

[bathory]

The woman was murdered

she wasn't murdered, she was a victim of involuntary manslaughter

MANSLAUGHTER, INVOLUNTARY - In order for a person to be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter the government must prove that someone was killed as a result of an act by the person;

Second, in the circumstances existing at the time, the person's act either was by its nature dangerous to human life or was done with reckless disregard for human life; and

Third, the person either knew that such conduct was a threat to the lives of others or knew of circumstances that would reasonably cause the person to foresee that such conduct might be a threat to the lives of others.

by definition is was involuntary manslaughter, now to poop on your final comments

now if this happened in the states, would the sentence be the same - NO! -

i dunno, perhaps you should find some cases of involuntary manslaughter involving firearms where there was no intent to cause any harm. What i can find in the US is people getting 10 or so years for killing people while DUI, which i think is quite a bit different.

Man DUI kills passenger - Faces maximum 6 year penalty + $250 000 fine

so i guess it depends on what state it occured in

Maximum 5 years here

etc etc

hate the US all you like.

This is exactly why so many people hate America - we walk around saying "do as I say - not as I do!” the great hypocrites of the 21st century!

no its because people jump to conclusions based on lack of knowledge or research

[warden]

A tragic death and a kid left with no mother,s bit like a lot of kids in the region.

Back to the storie.........I have heard of pranks going wrong all over the world involving fire arms,a fire arm is some thing you dont fool around with ,soldiers shoul know this more than most.

was ther intent to shoot this lady...no

Was ther a motive....no

A stupid prank that went wrong ,you will have to punish the soldiers in some way of a small jail sentence ,the thing that sticks in my mind is what help will this child recieve.

Because this has happened in this area you will no doubt have people jumping on the band wagon wanting death penalties etc

But we all know who they are

[Mad Manfred]

It was an accident. The sentence was appropriate.

[+joc]

The soldiers testified Hooser jokingly pointed the pistol at Luma's head and pulled the trigger, thinking Dajani had cleared it of ammunition. They originally claimed Luma had shot herself.

Plus, this guy has to live with the fact that he broke the number one rule of gun safety and his stupidity cost another human being their life.

btw for those of you who don't know; and this story just proves that many who don't should....

THE NUMBER ONE RULE FOR GUN SAFETY:

There is no such thing as an unloaded gun!

It really doesn't matter if you take the gun apart and put it back together again absolutely poitive that it is not loaded. Walk away from the gun for five mintues and you may not remember that you went ahead and reloaded.

This is just absolute stupidity on his part and I'm glad he is getting prison time!

Edited January 23, 2005 by joc

[morpheas]

-Post removed-

Edited January 23, 2005 by morpheas

[AztecInca]

Indeed the guy he shot her will have to live with it foe the rest of his life and will get soem jail time to think constantly about it. He never intended to kill anyone but sadly he did.

[Fluffybunny]

The woman was murdered - now if this happened in the states, would the sentence be the same - NO! - This is exactly why so many people hate America - we walk around saying "do as I say - not as I do!” the great hypocrites of the 21st century!

That isn't the whole truth as legally she was not "Murdered" it sounds like a case of manslaughter which is in the ball park of a 3 year prison sentance. Keep in mind that the military is not like the civilian jails where a person can get a 12 year sentance and get out in 3 years with good behaviour. In the military prisons 3 years is 3 years and not a day less. It is also at hard labor making gravel or other such menial labor for 16 hours a day. It is not like civilian prisons at all.

[+joc]

It is also at hard labor making gravel or other such menial labor for 16 hours a day. It is not like civilian prisons at all.

And you have to ask for permission to go to the bathroom.

(or so I've heard)

[Fluffybunny]

It is also at hard labor making gravel or other such menial labor for 16 hours a day. It is not like civilian prisons at all.

And you have to ask for permission to go to the bathroom.

(or so I've heard)

461768[/snapback]

When I was at Ft. Sam Houston in San Antonio Texas I was in the same barracks as a guy who happened to have gotten caught with some cocaine(Silly since medics are drug tested at least once a month as we had access to drugs), when he was being interviewed he admitted to buying enough to sell some so he could use the rest for free for himself.

He was arrested and court martialed and sentenced to 12 years hard labor for dealing drugs while in the military. He was sent to Ft. Leavenworth and was handed a sledge hammer and pointed towards a boulder and told to make gravel. 16 hours a day 7 days a week with a 2 hour break on Sundays for church service if they choose to attend.

The military does not screw around when it comes to punishment; it is severe and immediate.

[4dplane]

hate the US all you like.

Thanks, maybe I will Wait, I never said I hated the US.

This is exactly why so many people hate America - we walk around saying "do as I say - not as I do!” the great hypocrites of the 21st century!

no its because people jump to conclusions based on lack of knowledge or research

So you’re saying that if all people did their research, they would find that America is not the great hypocrite of the 21st century?

I do stand corrected thou - go to http://www.ussc.gov/JUDPACK/1999/id99.pdf - page ten clearly shows the average manslaughter sentencing in the US is 34.1 months - less than three years!!! Wow - that's ****ed up.

I feel that as marines they should be punished more severely for manslaughter - these are trained killers; they should do their best to stay in control of who they are killing. To accidentally shoot an innocent person in combat because they were caught in the middle of a cross fire is one thing - to put a gun to a woman’s head and pull the trigger is more then insane, it is one of the worst things a person could do to another human being – kill them on accident . Opps – BOOM! I’m sorry!

[Boff]

Sounds alot like what happened in Pulp Fiction...

But they got some bolder breaking time to review how to properly use there firearm.

[bathory]

I do stand corrected thou - go to http://www.ussc.gov/JUDPACK/1999/id99.pdf - page ten clearly shows the average manslaughter sentencing in the US is 34.1 months - less than three years!!! Wow - that's ****ed up.

why is it f@#$ed up?

if there is no intent to kill, hell if there is no intent to harm, why should the person be doing a long sentence? they aren't a danger to society, hell there isn't any real reason to put them away beyond using it as a punishment and demonstrating to society the tolerated boundaries in what we can and can't do. 3 years (especially in a military jail) is more than enough for what was a stupidity gone wrong.

[Gmac1000]

Manslaughter was probabley the lowest sentence the could give him, whether the intent to kill was there or not, some person died due to human error and stupidity, if he had of killed one of his own military members then you would of seen a much harsher punishment thats for sure. Unless it was a Canadian soldier, then he could of said that he "couldn't see him because of the dark" that was my favorite quote in U.S military history.

[bathory]

f he had of killed one of his own military members then you would of seen a much harsher punishment thats for sure.

prove it

what happened fits the definition of involuntary manslaughter exactly

[4dplane]

I do stand corrected thou - go to http://www.ussc.gov/JUDPACK/1999/id99.pdf - page ten clearly shows the average manslaughter sentencing in the US is 34.1 months - less than three years!!! Wow - that's ****ed up.

why is it f@#$ed up?

if there is no intent to kill, hell if there is no intent to harm, why should the person be doing a long sentence? they aren't a danger to society, hell there isn't any real reason to put them away beyond using it as a punishment and demonstrating to society the tolerated boundaries in what we can and can't do. 3 years (especially in a military jail) is more than enough for what was a stupidity gone wrong.

462084[/snapback]

He put a gun to the woman's head and pulled the trigger - sounds like a danger to society to me!

Yes, in many cases, like in the story, The Short Happy Life of Francis Macomber, a woman is shooting at a bull when she accidentally shoots her husband in the head. This would clearly be a case where the woman would spend possibly no time to a couple of years in prison for "accidentally" killing her husband.

Good story:

http://www.geocities.com/cyber_explorer99/...aymacomber.html

To sum up – I agree that real accidents happen and people should not be overly punished for legit mistakes. As for the two soldiers playing with their guns, this was not a legit accident.

In my opinion, a drunk driver should be severely punished for “accidentally” running someone over killing them. The drunk made the conscious decision to drink. He knew he was going to be impaired, and if he looked forward in time, he knew he would have to get home, but he got drunk anyway. A three year prison sentence for this crime is a joke!

Ok, let’s say grandpa is working on the furnace because his family is poor and cannot afford a service man. As grandpa is fixing the problem he accidentally closes the exhaust system. Later on that night his two granddaughters are sleeping in the basement and are killed from Carbon Monoxide poisoning. In my opinion, this would constitute involuntary manslaughter and a zero to three year prison sentence makes sense.

I cannot look at the act of putting a gun to someone’s head and pulling the trigger as involuntary manslaughter that constitutes a 3 year prison sentence. This does not cut it for me.

Edited January 26, 2005 by 4dplane

[The Caspian Hare]

Anyone who jokingly puts a gun to a person's head and pulls the trigger is a dangerous idiot and deserves more than 3 years in prison.

This imbecile has cost us a lot of Iraqi good will, something we do not exactly have a great supply of at the moment. The woman was there to help us for God's sake. Now it's going to be harder to recruit Iraqis as interpretators, and I can't exactly blame them.