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WTC 911 EyeWitness~Hoboken


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#1216    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 01:27 AM, said:

Stundie said:

WTC 5 suffered from massive impact damage as well and fires....
I guess you didn't read the report, but then again, what else is new?
Why didn't the WTC5 suffer from massive impact damage and fires?? lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1217    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:32 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 01:29 AM, said:

:blink:
I am pretty sure that investigators (NIST and FEMA) concluded that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings??

And, go on because there are many others as well. Don't forget the American Institute of Architects and the Society of Civl Engineers who have confirmed that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings. Don't forget the demolition experts who were in the area.

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#1218    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:36 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

Why didn't the WTC5 suffer from massive impact damage and fires?? lol

I guess you missed the video relating to the internal collapse of WTC5, which was attributed to fire.

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#1219    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:40 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 01:32 AM, said:

And, go on because there are many others as well. Don't forget the American Institute of Architects and the Society of Civl Engineers who have confirmed that fire was responsible for the collapse of the WTC buildings. Don't forget the demolition experts who were in the area.
There may well be many others who I am sure think they thought that fires brought down the WTC.

I do not recall ever arguing that they thought it was for some other reason, but you have no doubt deluded yourself that I think they thought it was for some other reason...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1220    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:42 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 01:36 AM, said:

I guess you missed the video relating to the internal collapse of WTC5, which was attributed to fire.
So didn't the WTC5 suffer from massive impact damage and fires then?? lol

Or are suggesting that WTC5, which was much closer than WTC7 to the collapse zones of WTC 1& 2, didn't suffer any impact damage at all and it was just fires?? lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1221    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:55 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 01:40 AM, said:

There may well be many others who I am sure think they thought that fires brought down the WTC.

They KNEW that fires brought down the WTC buildings. That fact can be ascertained by the fact the WTC buildings began to buckle before they collapsed. That was an indication that fire was weakening their steel structure.

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#1222    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 01:58 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

So didn't the WTC5 suffer from massive impact damage and fires then??

Apparently, you haven't been paying any attention to what has been posted in regards to WTC5.

Quote



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#1223    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:00 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 01:55 AM, said:

They KNEW that fires brought down the WTC buildings. That fact can be ascertained by the fact the WTC buildings began to buckle before they collapsed. That was an indication that fire was weakening their steel structure.
They knew is not really an argument....lol

The fact that they knew WTC7 collapse from fires without examining a piece of steel doesn't make a very good case.

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1224    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:02 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 01:58 AM, said:

Apparently, you haven't been paying any attention to what has been posted in regards to WTC5.
Oh I have, but I'm not sure what your point is??

If you can't make it without making logical overhand knots, then maybe you don't really have a point.......lol

However, maybe you have fooled yourself you have a made a point!! lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1225    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 02:00 AM, said:

They knew is not really an argument...

The fact that they knew WTC7 collapse from fires without examining a piece of steel doesn't make a very good case.

Of course they examined the steel, but I guess you overlooked other videos relating to that effect as well.

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

Oh I have, but I'm not sure what your point is??

That WTC5 did in fact, suffer serious localized impact damage.

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#1226    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:18 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

Of course they examined the steel, but I guess you overlooked other videos relating to that effect as well.
The NIST makes no mention of any of the actual steel from WTC 7 and refers to pre-existing documents which themselves assert that no steel was recovered from WTC 7.

But don't take my word for it, Skyeagle....lol

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page iii

"no steel from the building was recovered"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page xxxvii

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page xliv

"no steel from WTC 7 was recovered from the site"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page 1

"NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page 114

"No metallography could be carried out because no steel was recovered from WTC 7"
- NCSTAR 1-3, page 115

"Because NIST recovered no steel from WTC 7, it is not possible to make any statements about its quality."
- NCSTAR 1-3D, page 273

"no steel was recovered from WTC 7"
- NCSTAR 1-3E, page 37

"No steel from WTC 7 has been identified from the pieces of recovered WTC steel in NIST's possession... Properties were estimated from available test data in the literature."
- NIST June 2004 Progress Report (Volume 1, Page 17)

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 02:05 AM, said:

That WTC5 did in fact, suffer serious localized impact damage.
So why the hell are you arguing with me when I have said that even though WTC 5 suffered from fires and impact damage then?? :blink:

You are indeed a strange one Skyeagle....lol :)

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1227    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:32 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 02:18 AM, said:

The NIST makes no mention of any of the actual steel from WTC 7 and refers to pre-existing documents which themselves assert that no steel was recovered from WTC 7.

But don't take my word for it, Skyeagle....lol

You might want to check this out.

WTC7

http://www.fema.gov/...fema403_apc.pdf

And,

As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1 and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire. Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire and/or impacted by the aircraft.
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact zone.
  • Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.
  • Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices.
  • Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged.
  • Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.
  • Any piece that, in the engineer's professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.
The engineers were able to identify many pieces by their markings. Each piece of steel was originally stenciled in white or yellow with information telling where it came from and where it was going. A sample of the markings can be seen in Figure D-5.

Posted Image

Figure D-14
WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors.

Posted Image

http://911research.w.../WTC_apndxD.htm

Edited by skyeagle409, 26 March 2013 - 02:34 AM.

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#1228    Stundie

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:36 AM

View Postskyeagle409, on 26 March 2013 - 02:32 AM, said:

You might want to check this out.

WTC7

http://www.fema.gov/...fema403_apc.pdf

And,

As shown in Figure D-4, the engineers searched through unsorted piles of steel for pieces from WTC 1 and WTC 2 impact areas and from WTC 5 and WTC 7. They also checked for pieces of steel exposed to fire. Specifically, the engineers looked for the following types of steel members:
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were exposed to fire and/or impacted by the aircraft.
  • Exterior column trees and interior core columns from WTC 1 and WTC 2 that were above the impact zone.
  • Badly burnt pieces from WTC 7.
  • Connections from WTC 1, 2, and 7, such as seat connections, single shear plates, and column splices.
  • Bolts from WTC 1, 2, and 7 that were exposed to fire, fractured, and/or that appeared undamaged.
  • Floor trusses, including stiffeners, seats, and other components.
  • Any piece that, in the engineer's professional opinion, might be useful for evaluation. When there was any doubt about a particular piece, the piece was kept while more information was gathered. A conservative approach was taken to avoid having important pieces processed in salvage yard operations.
The engineers were able to identify many pieces by their markings. Each piece of steel was originally stenciled in white or yellow with information telling where it came from and where it was going. A sample of the markings can be seen in Figure D-5.

Posted Image

Figure D-14 WTC 7 W14 column tree with beams attached to two floors.

Posted Image

http://911research.w.../WTC_apndxD.htm
I do not need to check anything out....lol

The NIST in their collapse report did not examine any steel. Showing me other reports doesn't change that fact....lol

As I said, the NIST "refers to pre-existing documents"....like FEMA.

Are you seriously this slow??...lol

There is no such thing as magic, just magicians and fools.

#1229    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:39 AM

View PostStundie, on 26 March 2013 - 02:36 AM, said:

I do not need to check anything out....

But, you said that steel from WTC7 was not R-E-C-O-V-E-R-E-D!!

WTC Steel Data Collection
D.1 Introduction

WTC steel data collection efforts were undertaken by the Building Performance Study (BPS) Team and the Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEAoNY) to identify significant steel pieces from WTC 1, 2, 5, and 7 for further study.

The methods used to identify and document steel pieces are presented, as well as a spreadsheet that documents the data for steel pieces inspected at various sites from October 2001 through March 2002.

Figure D-17 Seat connection in fire-damaged W14 column from WTC 7.


Posted Image

Edited by skyeagle409, 26 March 2013 - 02:49 AM.

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#1230    skyeagle409

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 02:59 AM

Chief Daniel Nigro


Regarding WTC 7: The long-awaited US Government NIST (National Institute of Standards and Technology) report on the collapse of WTC 7 is due to be published at the end of this year (although it has been delayed already a few times [ adding fuel to the conspiracy theorists fires!]). That report should explain the cause and mechanics of the collapse in great detail. Early on the afternoon of September 11th 2001, following the collapse of WTC 1 & 2, I feared a collapse of WTC 7 (as did many on my staff).

The reasons are as follows:

1 - Although prior to that day high-rise structures had never collapsed, The collapse of WTC 1 & 2 showed that certain high-rise structures subjected to damage from impact and from fire will collapse.

2. The collapse of WTC 1 damaged portions of the lower floors of WTC 7.

3. WTC 7, we knew, was built on a small number of large columns providing an open Atrium on the lower levels.

4. numerous fires on many floors of WTC 7 burned without sufficient water supply to attack them.

For these reasons I made the decision (without consulting the owner, the mayor or anyone else - as ranking fire officer, that decision was my responsibility) to clear a collapse zone surrounding the building and to stop all activity within that zone. Approximately three hours after that order was given, WTC 7 collapsed.

Conspiracy theories abound and I believe firmly that all of them are without merit.

Regards, Dan Nigro
Chief of Department FDNY (retired)

http://911guide.goog...com/danielnigro



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