275 replies to this topic

[Lion6969]

Nice thread.

As for Muslims who feel they not to express that they do not practise. Fear not, no one is perfect.....we are bad muslims and bad Muslims can always change. As for worshipping Allah as you want.....Ive been there too. However I see it as a "me,me" attitude, everything about "me". Do you ever consider what you creator wants from you, how he may want you to worship him? Rather than you worshipping him as you wish, taking him out of equation, after all it's him who alone is worthy of worship.

As for the OP very interesting. I'm enjoying the posts and sort of know where it's going. As for non Muslims and skeptics......they will still dismiss it based on silly notions that it's not specific enough. Like they expect a cosmology text book from god and not realising that such references in the Quran is the creator pointing to certain phenomena regarding which the scientific knowledge is fairly new, yet the Quran and the creator made references to the big bang, expansion of the universe etc 1400 years ago.

[al-amiyr]

Knight Of Shadows, on 12 November 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

if it makes you feel any better am muslim who don't pray and pay religion duties as well
and i drink too .. sometimes and i still think god is understanding and look beyond the reasons before judging anyone
and i guess the way god prefer to be worshiped is when person fully convinced why and not to mimic what other people do
so in a way if person searching for truth before worshipping is considered kinda of worship on it's own
but not to go way off topic or not to sound preachy

i would like to ask you amiyer a question if you don't mind ..
are you a muslim ? which sect ?
and you don't have to answer i just like to get an idea of source of information coming from
as in this certain topic the source is you

thanks in advance

Here is an answer to your question. I can go into much greater detail if required.

The Most Illustrious Family Of Islaam Or That Of The Ages.

There is a Family that has now produced 43 generations of learned men, one son after the other, and all of them great scholars of Islaam. They are linked ( by blood or as advisers ) in one way or another to all the Khulafaa' (Khaliyfs) in the history of the whole of Islaam since the death of the messenger of ALLAAH (A*)(S+). This family has produced more than 500 000 scholars over the one thousand four hundred years of Islamic history. It is said that this family is the "itrah (stem) of 'ahlu_l_bayt ( family of the Prophet's house) which generated the different branches. We are speaking about the " Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy " Family. The last great well known scholar of this family was al-bahru_l_muhaqqaq and al_"ilmu_l_mudaqqaq and shaykhu_l_"ilm and shaykhu_l_islaam and muftiy al_''arba"u_l_'a'immah maulanaa and mullaa as_sayyid Abu Bakr Effendi Al_khushnaawiy Al-qurashiy Al-Amjadiy (1814 - 1880). He was the adviser to the last absolute Sultans and Khaliyfs of The Ottoman Islamic State or Empire i.e. Sultans and Khaliyfs Abdul-Majid, Abdul-Aziz and Abdul-Hamid.

Here is a short history of one great ancestor (12th grandson of Zayd ibn Ali the grandson of imaam Husayn grandson of the Prophet (S+) and the 25th ancestor of the above mentioned Shaykh of Knowledge.

Abu-NaSr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan Al-Ghaaziy Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy( c.1057 - c.1134 )

abuw naSr al_amiyr sulaymaan
was
one of the most extraordinary and exemplary men who ever lived.
He was a most gracious philanthropist,
a supreme commander,
and by the grace of ALLAAH (A*), a most successful man in everything he set out to do.
He was a great benefactor and promoter of knowledge and education
and above all
he was a man who, like his ancestors, loved and served The Lord
with all his heart, soul and mind.

To
the twenty-eight
generations of his learned descendants,
one son after the other,
over the next nine hundred years,
he was known as the father of help,
the man of good deeds, meritorious actions,
and
the shepherd of the flock of his future generations.

According to the family oral history, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was a direct descendant and inheritor of King Sulaymaan (Soloman), son of King Daawud (David) Kings of Judah through the line of Yuwsuf (Joseph) and Maryam (Mary), the mother of "Iysaa (Jesus).
It was said that he was the prophesied father (abu) of the Branch (naSr) which would bear fruit from the offshoot of Yassaa (Jessie), the father of King Daawud (David).
Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was also the twelfth direct descendant of Zayd, the son of "Aliy Zaynul_"aabidiyn (grandson of FaaTimah(P+), (daughter of the prophet Muhammad (S+) and Haydaan,the highborn captured princess of India.
Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan was also regarded as one of the six Mu'lifiyn (Thousanders) who was to be born or because he was born at the dawn or rise of the next millenium.
It has been said that the seventh mu'allif (Thousander) would be a direct descendant of Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan.
The other Thousanders were Aadam (Adam (P+), Nuwh (Noah (P+), 'IbraaHiym (Abraham (P+), Daawud (David (P+) and"Iysaa (Jesus (P+) to whom Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan were all related genealogically.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan, because of his family inheritance, his skillful business foresight and his spoils of war acquisitions became an immensely wealthy man. In fact he became one of the wealthiest individuals of his day. It has been estimated that his personal fixed property alone amounted to over one hundred square kilometers. His net worth today would amount to billions of dollars.
Despite his enormous wealth, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan lived a remarkably simple life and was very rarely seen in public. It was his usual practice to spend most of his time in isolation worshipping his Lord. All who met him were struck by his simplicity and were sworn to uphold his hidden family identity.

One day, Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan, called for an appointed day of assembly of the tribal Elders, other prominent Leaders, Scholars and Learned men. He told them that the time had come for him to give up all his wealth and use it all for the lofty cause of his Lord. He told them that all the moneys and proceeds of the lands must all go for the upkeep of the school that he had created and build in Siysaawah (near Shahrizur, Arbil or Sulaymaniyah in Iraq).

After having stated all the conditions of the school which among others are that-
- it shall be a school that shall be open to all who wish to learn.
-it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free education in it.
-it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free food from it.
-and it shall be a school in which all who wish to learn shall have the right to free lodging in it.
Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan stated that he had placed everything into the hands of Abul_muhsin Mullaa "Uthmaan Haamid
whom he said was the most upright and learned of his sons
and that he shall be responsible for the upkeep of the school and for the overseeing of the execution of all the stipulated conditions.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan also stated that after Abul_muhsin Mullaa "Uthmaan Haamid had passed on, the school shall be placed in the charge of the most upright and learned of the sons of his sons and so forth. And if it were to happen that they should become degenerate then it shall be placed in the charge of the sons of his daughters and so forth. And if it were also to happen that they were to go from bad to worse then it shall go to any of the most upright and learned of his scattered descendants who took up the course to uphold this eternal foundation and endowment .And if they should die out then it shall go on to the daughters of his daughters .And if they should die out it then it shall pass on to the nearest of the tribe and then to humanity.

In the end he prayed and sought refuge in The All_Mighty Creator ,Preserver and Destroyer, who sees to the end of time,
to protect his descendants from gradual corrosion and ultimate obliteration.

Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan had everything written down and dated Wednesday, 23 Muharram 523A.H (corresponding to 23 January 1129).
Then signed it
Abu-Nasr Al-Amiyr Sulaymaan Al-Gaaziy Al-Qurashiy Al-Amjadiy (The poor man in need of The All_Mighty).

---

  Here is more about the school of this family that lasted over seven hundred years until it was finally destroyed in 1831 and the family again had to flee to another part of the world and with it soon to be demise of the visible Ottoman Sunni Islaamic Khilaafah.

During the last ten years members of The Turkish Government (including Prime Minister Erdogan and Foreign Minister Davutoglu) came to South Africa.One of the first things they requested was to go to the grave of The Shaykh of Knowledge As_sayyid Abdullaah Abu Bakr Effendi al-khushnaawiy al-Qurashiy al-Amjadiy (1814-1880). This was reported in both the South African and Turkish Media.The Shaykh of Knowledge is buried on the world famous Signal Hill that is the abdomen part of a mountain shaped in the form of a crouching lion which lies next to The World Renowned Table Mountain (now voted by humanity and declared a seventh wonder of the world and said to be the most wondrous mountain in the world). The history of The Shaykh of Knowledge, his ancestry and his coming to South Africa has been described by historians and other writers as amazing and crying out to be written. It all started like this when the Muslims of The Colony of The Cape of Good Hope wrote a letter to the Governor as follows.

A unique historical event
On 16 April 1862
The Muslims of The Colony of The Cape of Good Hope
Cape Town
South Africa
wrote a letter to the Governor as follows.
"As it is well known, 85 years ago some of Javenese islands fell into the hands of
The Dutch Government.
Our fathers were all tied up in chains, enslaved and brought here.
We were afflicted with suffering and problems;
the Honourable British Empire set us free from the slavery of the previous government
and gave us our liberty.
For that, we thank the empire for it's help and grace, and in case of necessity,
it is incumbent upon us to sacrifice ourselves for it's cause.
We once again express our thanks and gratitude.
It is obvious that each nation has to know and apply it's religion and way of life and practice.
But
we forgot our language of origin, the language of Javenese,
the books and treatises are all written in that language and therefore
we obviously need a teacher to read and teach them.
Since the situation is like this
it is requested to bring
a scholar-teacher from a Muslim country
in order to teach and train us."

16 Shawwaal 1278 (16 April 1862)
Signature
Muslim people
Cape of Good Hope

Omar Lutfi " A travelogue of my journey to The Cape of Good hope. p.7.
translated by Yusuf Kavakci

The Governor replied to the Muslims that it was not an easy matter for him and it had to be referred to Her Majesty Queen Victoria for Approval. ... The Governor's letter with the petition of the Muslims arrived at Queen Victoria's Government and it was discussed in parliament and recommendations were made. They then sent The letter to The Khalif of The Sunni World Sultan Abdul Aziz and The High Council of Islamic Affairs..................... It was Decided that the best person for the undertaking would be The Shaykh of Knowledge and The Shaykh of Islaam Abu Bakr Effendi(as he is mostly known). On 01 October 1862 The Shaykh of Knowledge left The Ottoman Islamic Khilafat in a ship from Istanbul bound for The Western World (it has been said that it was the first time in history that such an event took place between a Muslim government and a Christian one).
The Shaykh of Knowledge arrived in London on the 15 October 1862 and later at the palace of Queen Victoria where he met Lord Chamberlain who was waiting for his arrival. After spending two months there he left on 01 December 1862 for The Colony of the Cape of Good Hope, Cape Town, South Africa.
The Shaykh of Knowledge arrived in Cape Town in the early morning of the 13th of January 1863 where soon all the prominent Imams of the Muslims came to welcome him. A photograph of the Shaykh with all the prominent Muslims leaders was taken and believed to be the oldest photograph of Muslims in South Africa if not its oldest dated in the country. The Shaykh of Knowledge did not wait long and within one month he set up a school of higher learning and had over 300 students out of a population of 17000. The first reform he did was to put the women back into hijaab and then selected among the most intelligent ones among his students whom he then trained as teachers.He opened the first school of hifz and Arabic in South Africa as well as the first Muslim girls school and so forth. He trained many learned men and set up schools in many parts of Southern Africa. All this while he was learning to master the local language and English. The Shaykh also wrote the first book in the local language(354 pages) which was a mixture of Dutch and a smack of other languages which became Afrikaans, an Official language of South Africa. After the death of The Sultan and Khaliyf Abdul-Aziz, the Shaykh went back to Istanbul (1876) and one of the first things the new Sultan(Khalif Sultan Abdul-Hamid) did was to sign the printing of his book called The Explanation of the Diyn(Bayaanuddiyn). 1500 copies of the book was printed and it was translated in 1960 into English by a Dutch Scholar.It is said The Shaykh of Knowledge had more than 10 000 students all over the world. (Including Muhammad Dollie who went to England and found the first or one of the first Masjids there).
The Shaykh was born in Shahrizur Iraq in 1814 and started his education under his father aged two and had memorized the Quran by six. He studied first in the school set up in 523 Hijra or 1129 ACE. by his 25th ancestor known as abuw naSr al-amiyr sulaymaan al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy. All the ancestors of the Shaykh were great scholars and many were advisers to those who had ruled as Khaliyfs of the Muslims . The family always lived and kept a low profile so as not to make known their full identity. As so many of the forefathers were killed beheaded and crucified. They were the secret family who went into hiding of amiyr Zayd ibn Ali ( son of Imam Zaynul Abidiyn son of amiyr Husayn grandson of the Prophet (S+).
Zayd ibn Ali was killed ,beheaded and crucified in a battle similar to the battle of Badr by the Umayyad forces.His body (skeleton) remained on the cross naked for four years and when the next Umayyad Khaliyf took over, he ordered that the skeleton be taken down burnt and then scattered to the wind over the Euphrates River. Amiyr Zayd ibn Ali's son yahyaa then took up the imaamat after him and was also killed , beheaded and crucified and his body remained on the cross for six years... (then imaam Ja'far aS-Saadiq handed it over to muhammad nafsuzzakiyyah and his brother Ibraahiym) muhammad was also killed ,beheaded and crucified. Then Ibraahiym took it up and he too was killed , beheaded and crucified. Like that the this branch (or stem of the Haashemites of Ahlul-bayt were despised by the people.Then the standard of imaamat and amiyrship passed on to "iysaa ibn Zayd ibn Ali(the forth son of Zayd ibn Ali). All over the world the government pursued Imaam amiyr "iysaa. After imaam amiyr "iysaa his son imaam amiyr ahmad took up the standard and went into hiding. He is known to history as ahmad al-mukhtafiy(the hidden). Then he fled to the land of Khashnaw(at sisawa in Iraq among the Kurds) and there he and his descendants kept a low profile and tried to attract no attention.It has also been reported that the ancestors of the Khashnaaw was give a ring by imaam zaynul Aabidiyn to rule over the territory of Khashnaaw. About 300 years later the family again surfaced when the twelfth descendant of Zayd ibn Ali arose by the name of the above mentioned abuw naSr al-amiyr sulaymaan al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy and he founded his school.

This is a brief outline of the Family Tree of The shaykh of Knowledge

shaykh-ul-ilm and shaykhu-l-islaam -> abd-ullaah abuw-bakr <- effendi al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1229 - 1297) / ( 1814 - 1880 )

son of

1

mullaa amiyr -> umar <- effendi al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1192 - 1247 ) / ( 1778 - 1831 )

son of

1

Salaah-ud-diyn mullaa amiyr -> muSTafaa <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1157 - 1224 ) / ( 1744 - 1809 )

son of

1

mawlanaa baabaa piyr -> sulaymaan <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-'amjadiy

( 1136 - 1199 ) / ( 1723 - 1785 )

son of

1

mullaa -> muSTafaa <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - 1167 ) / ( - 1754 )

son of



mullaa -> ibraahiym <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - 1152 ) / ( - 1739 )

son of

1

amiyr -> sulaymaan<- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1068 - 1130 ) / ( 1657- 1718 )

son of

1

amiyr -> muhammad <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1045- 1110 ) / ( 1635 - 1698 )

son of

1

aDaD-ud-diyn -> abd-ullaah abiy-zayd -><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 1012 - 1077 ) / ( 1603 - 1666 )

son of

1

izz-ud-diyn -> muhammad al-faDlu qaddasa sirrahu <-al_khushnaawiy al_qurashiy al_'amjadiy

( 976 - 1039 ) / ( 1568 - 1629 )

son of

1

amiyr -> abd-ullaah <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 937 - 1003 ) / ( 1530 - 1594 )

son of

1

zayn-ud-diyn mullaa -> ahmad <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 900 - 967 ) / ( 1494 - 1559 )

son of

1

mullaa abd- ul- haq -> sulaymaan <- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 871 - 929 ) / ( 1466 - 1523 )

son of

1

abu-sulaymaan -><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( 841 - 882 ) / ( 1437 - 1477 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb DhuHuwr-ud-diyn-><- al-khushnaawiy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - c.850 ) / ( ???? - c.1446 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-muHaymin -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ur-razzaaq -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-us-samiy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-u llaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-waliyy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( ???? - ???? ) / ( ???? - ???? )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb buTuwn-ud-diyn -><- <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c.541 - ???? ) / (c.1146 - ???? )

son of

1

abuw-l-muhsin mullaa -> uthmaan haamid <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c. 483 - c.555 ) / (c. 1090 - c.1160 )

son of

1

abuw-naSr al-amiyr -> sulaymaan <-al-ghaaziy al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( c. 459 - c.528 ) / ( c.1057 - c.1134 )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb iyqaaDh-ud-diyn -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-hakiym -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-baSiyr-><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ullaah-><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-khabiyr-> <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Saahibu-l- ghayb abd-ul-baatin -> <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

mawlanaa -> ahmad <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-ul-majiyd -> muhammad abd-ullaah sulaymaan<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-u-l-hamiyd al-khalaf->'ahmadu-l-mukhtafiy abd-ullaah muhammad<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

(???? - ????) / (???? -???? )

son of

1

'amiyr abd-uS-Samad as-salaf->"abdullaah yahyaa iysaa<- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

'amiyr-ul-mujaahidiyn haliyfu-l-qur'aan -> zaydu-al-shahiyd <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

imaam zaynu-l-aabidiyn -> aliy as-sajjaad <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

amiyr-ush-shuhadaa imaam -> husayn <- al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

khaliyfatullaah amiyr-ul-mu’miniyn -> aliy <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abuw Taalib -> imraan <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abd-l-muTTalib ->shayba <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

Haashim -> amru-l-ulaa <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

abdu manaaf -> al-mughiyra <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

quSayy -> zayd <-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

kilaab -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

murra -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

ka"b -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

lu'ayy -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

ghaalib -><-al-qurashiy al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

1

fihr -><-al-quraysh al-amjadiy

( - ) / ( - )

son of

Now this is my family history. I hope that answered something of your question.

[al-amiyr]

I deleted this post because it was a double post by accident.

Edited by al-amiyr, 12 November 2012 - 07:36 PM.

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12

Let us now present the first of the two Qur’aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verses from the 'real' Qur'aan; meaning the one in Arabic as it has been presented by the Prophet (S+). Let us begin the exposé!

Here is the Arabic text of the first Qur’aan Cosmological Model verse with transliteration.Don't be dismayed if you cannot read the Arabic because it is the transliteration which we will be using here for our exposition.

Qur’aan 021:30

أَوَلَمْ يَرَ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا
أَنَّ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضَ كَانَتَا رَتْقًا
فَفَتَقْنَاهُمَا
وَجَعَلْنَا مِنَ الْمَاءِ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ حَيٍّ
أَفَلَا يُؤْمِنُونَ

transliteration

‘a-wa-lam yara lladhiyna kafaruw

‘anna as-samaawaati wa-l-‘arDa kaanataa Ratqan

fa-Fataq-naa humaa

wa-ja”al-naa min al-maa’i kulla shay’in hayyin

‘a-fa-laa yu’minuwna

Here I present the most accurate translation of the verse. Though by no means perfect. I have not translated the key words because they are technical terms in their own right and cannot be translated without grave loss of the original. I will select and explain each of them adequately with proofs from the Qur'aan itself as well as the authoritative Arabic dictionaries.

translation

Have those who have disbelieved now not seen:-

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

And We made from water every living thing.

Will they now not believe?


This verse contains an encyclopedia of information of which I will touch upon only the cosmological aspects. To do that I will simply extract the parts of the verse that I have already colored in.


that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

What is the verse actually saying. When we read it at face value we see that it speaks about how ALLAAH (God) brought about the creation of the universe we happen to find ourselves living in. This earth upon which we live, the sun and the moon and the stars, and everything else that the universe contains.
Let us go over it again exactly as it is written.

ALLAAH says, "

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again."

I would like you to repeat the verse at least three times so that you can become familiar with those four untranslated technical terms of which I have already said cannot be translated without grave lost of the original. The problem is that when scholars think that they can translate these technical terms of the Qur'aan into English or for that matter into any other language and they go ahead and then begin to do so they effectively make the Qur'aan completely dysfunctional. Then people who have no understanding of what the original is saying begin to read and study it and start making all kinds of proclamations as to what the Qur'aan is really saying. So they have misled themselves and all others who follow them and that goes for all those who repeat their behavior.

To be continued ( the explanation of the four Qur'aanic Cosmological Model Verses) inshaa allaah (if God had willed).

Edited by al-amiyr, 12 November 2012 - 07:45 PM.

[Lilly]

Please post source links. Also, do not post large blocks of text.

As stated in UM rules:

2c. Plagiarism and copyright: If you quote text from an external web site then please always provide a source link. Members are asked to copy only as much as is necessary when quoting material from external sources, do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages.

[al-amiyr]

Lilly, on 12 November 2012 - 07:53 PM, said:

Please post source links. Also, do not post large blocks of text.

As stated in UM rules:

2c. Plagiarism and copyright: If you quote text from an external web site then please always provide a source link. Members are asked to copy only as much as is necessary when quoting material from external sources, do not copy and paste entire articles or web pages.

All this is my own work. From my own books that I am writing. I make them available without any copyright. There is no subject like this other than what I am presenting. I am hoping for good discussion from the members here. I can assure that there is  absolutely no 2c. Plagiarism and copyright: . I hope that clarifies the concern.

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 and #19

The four technical terms are:-
- the samaawaat
- the ‘arD
- Ratqan
- Fataq

The definite article ‘al’ ‘the’ I have translated as 'the samaawaat' and not 'al-samaawaat'; and 'the ‘arD' and not 'al-‘arD'. You would have noticed that I have written ‘arD' with a capital D instead of with a small d. The reason for this is that there are two d’s in the Arabic language; one pronounced at the tip of the tongue like the ‘d’ in the English word ‘did’ and the other pronounced with the tongue against the roof of the mouth and similar to the ‘D’ in the English word ‘Dark’ but even more emphatic. It is said that the Arabic language is the only language which contains this letter or sound. In fact almost all Muslims mispronounce this emphatic ‘D’ and thus destroy the Qur’aan with their tongues without realizing it because every letter of the Qur’aan is a multi-dimensional space-time configuration. The Jews have done the same thing with the letters of the Torah which are also all multi-dimensional space-time configurations. The Christians have no part in this science because they have completely discarded the alphabet of the Bible and opted to translate and read the Holy Book in other alphabets and languages. For Example the letter ‘M’ called ‘MiyM’ and ‘Mem’ in Hebrew are the symbols for the mathematical equation of a circle x/2 + y/2 = r/2. This is what is referred to as the knowledge contained in all the Divine Books. If this knowledge is lost then virtually everything becomes lost. The Divine Books would then become interpretations of infinite duration- like it is now.

Let us look at the technical term samaawaat
samaawaat is the plural of the Arabic word samaa’. If we were to open an Arabic dictionary like that of Edward William Lane which was published in 1865 and regarded as one of the greatest dictionaries of all time we will find the following definitions or explanations.[/font]

As a verb:
- he or it was, or became, high, lofty, raised, upraised, uplifted, upreared, exalted, or elevated. [/font]
- he or it rose, or rose high.
-he or it rose higher or above.

As a noun:
-the higher, or upper, or highest, or uppermost, part of anything.
-the sky, or heavens.

Let us look at the technical term‘arD.
As a verb:
- he or it became lowly or submissive.
- he or it became or rendered heavy, slow, sluggish, inclining, or propending, to the ground.
-it collected moisture, and became luxuriant with herbage
-it became soft to tread upon, pleasant to sit upon, productive, and good in its herbage or vegetation.
-the ulcer, or sore, became blistered, and wide, and corrupt, and dissundered.

As a noun:
With the definite article ‘the’
- the earth as opposed to heaven.
-the ground, as meaning the surface of the earth, on which we tread and sit and lie.
-the floor

Without the definite article ‘the’
- a land, or a country.
- a piece of land or ground.
- anything that is low.

Let us look at the technical term - Ratqan.
From the verb: Rataqa
- he closed up.
- he sewed up, or together.

Ratqan
- closed up.
- sewn up.

Let us look at the technical term - Fataq.
It is the verb: - Fataqa
- he slit it, rent it, rent it asunder or open, or divided it lengthwise.
- he disjoined it, or disunited it
- he undid the sewing of it, unsewed it, or unstitched it
(- became swollen, or inflated, in the flanks.
- appeared after concealment.)

As the noun: -Fatqan
- a rent, slit, or the like.
- an open, and a spacious, place.

There we have the meanings of the four technical terms; as verbs as well as nouns.
We are now getting close to the formation of the Qur’aan Cosmological Model. After that the QCM will start to come alive.
Have again another good look at the Qur’aan Cosmological Model below. Can you begin to recognize where we are in the Model.



Continued in posts to follow inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 and #22

Again let us look at the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) verse that I have already presented and which we are now going to analyze via the meaning and definitions of its four technical terms.

Be reminded that these four Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms that have already been explained earlier are all found in the Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane. This Arabic - English Lexicon by Edward William Lane is the greatest, on every level, Arabic - English dictionary ever produced in the English language and virtually contains the entire Classical Arabic Language upon which the Qur'aan is based. Edward William Lane was called, in his lifetime, the master of the Arabic Language. It is a work of breathless achievement- the greatest height a scholar could attain to maximum precise detail.I present to you the publishers note for further elaboration.

Edward William Lane's ARABIC - ENGLISH LEXICON Book1 contains all the classical words, their derivatives, and their usages. It appears in eight separate volumes and took the author more than thirty years to compile.

Book II, which Dr. Lane contemplated and which was to contain rare words and explanations, was incomplete at the time of his death in 1876 and therefore never appeared.

In describing Lane’s Lexicon, Dr. G. P. Badger wrote, “This marvelous work in its fullness and richness, its deep research correctness and simplicity of arrangement far transcends the Lexicon of any language ever presented to the world.”

And as Dr. Lane sets it out on the face page,
“Containing all the classical words and significations commonly known to the learned among the Arabs.”

For this reason we shall use this great lexicon which was completed by 1876 ( and 53 years before the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929 that mightily changed our perception of the universe) for the explanation of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model (QCM) technical terms. If we do this we can never be accused of 'wangling' the words of the Qur'aan to fit up with what scientists have discovered only later. And those Arabic words presented by Lane are non other than the very Arabic words he had selected from the great Arabic dictionaries that go back up to over a thousand years earlier and that ultimately get traced back to the tongue of the Messenger of ALLAAH (S+) to whom the Qur'aan was revealed.
In posts to follow we shall begin to analyze the QCM technical terms we have mentioned; present their geometrical mathematical delineations; extrapolate there mathematical equations and so forth.

To be continued inshaa allaah (if God had willed).

[Darkwind]

Sorry I have a some knowledge of cosmology and the quotes you posted are not going to cut it as science, not even close. They are much to general and most of it was also proposed by other religions.  I think the Hindus got a little closer, but even they didn't really hit the mark.  Sorry no cigar for you.  In my opinion you're preaching.

edit to add... If it takes a hundred pages to explain why it is not BS then most likely it is BS.

Edited by Darkwind, 12 November 2012 - 09:52 PM.

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 12 November 2012 - 09:48 PM, said:

Sorry I have a some knowledge of cosmology and the quotes you posted are not going to cut it as science, not even close. They are much to general and most of it was also proposed by other religions.  I think the Hindus got a little closer, but even they didn't really hit the mark.  Sorry no cigar for you.  In my opinion you're preaching.

edit to add... If it takes a hundred pages to explain why it is not BS then most likely it is BS.

You have the right to your views but you are incorrect. You have not provided any evidence for what you claim. In my opinion your only option is accuse the poster of "preaching". A strategy I have found all those who claim and cry free speech themselves hate for others. I do not say that you are included, but it makes me think.

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 and #23

I hope that you have read prvious posts. If you did not then it will be difficult for you to follow.

We are now coming very close to seeing the visual presentation of the Qur'aan Cosmological Model extrapolated from the two Qur'aan Cosmological Model verses. Therefore let us now again here present the first Qur'aan Cosmological Model verse and then analyze it but this time via the meaning and definitions of its four technical terms as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary as compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.



First QCM Verse 021:030

Have those who have disbelieved now not seen:-

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

And We made from water every living thing.

Will they now not believe?

The Qur'aan is a divine book that addresses humanity throughout time.Therefore certain passages are not always clear to those who do not understand this important principal. The first QCM verse is one of those time event verses that will only become fully understood and appreciated after the subject of its statement has become known. This is not because the Qur'aan is not clear on the matter but because the nature of man is that he will not accept that which he has physically seen or proven - one of the great qualities of man if one removes any type of belief from his personality. Another quality of man is that he likes to conform with 'what is' and dislikes to be disturbed from his perceived comfort zones even if they might turn out to be wrong - one of the bad qualities of man.

If we look at the first QCM verse we see that it is a definite statement made about something and framed into a question that demands reflection and an answer. A reflection and an answer that could never have made sense to anyone prior to 1929 when it was discovered that the universe was expanding and by implication had to originate from some point back in time. Therefore it is a verse that most appropriately applies to our generation and our generation only. What a great honour and a concern that must be. For if it is like that then we must ask why are we being addressed? What is the purpose of it all?

Let us look at and ponder over the question! We observe that ALLAAH (God) the Originator of the Heavens and the Earth (i.e. the Universe) addresses a group of people whom He calls 'those who have disbelieved'. He asks them via the believers the following question, " Have you now not seen?" And what is it that ALLAAH asks them what they have now not seen? He says,

that the samaawaat and the ‘arD

(1)- were both Ratqan

(2)- and so We Fataq them both again.

And what is the samaawaat and what is the‘arD that He describe were both once upon a time Ratqan and that He then did Fataq them both again. At http://www.forum.thehiddenbook.net more graphical illustrations being made available.

In the next post we shall analyze the two important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical terms 'samaawaat' and '‘arD' and as we have already said but this time via the meaning and definitions as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.
We will also have a look at who are the exact people whom are being addressed in the Qur'aan.

To be continued inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

[al-amiyr]

Must be read from post #1 #8 #9 #12 #19 #22 #23 and #26.


Defining samaa’ (singular of samaawaat) the first important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical term.

It is sometimes important just to repeat certain keywords or phrases in order to become familiar with the concepts involved. There must be understanding and not just casual reading. It is always good for you to revise or go over the previous posts. You will be amazed how much you have missed before and how much you will gain from a second and a third and so forth repeated reading.

Let us now analyze the two important Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical terms 'samaawaat' and '‘arD' as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929.

What is the samaawaat?
As has been said before ‘samaawaat’ is the plural of the Arabic word ‘samaa’’ and is derived from the Arabic root verb meaning:-

- he or it was, or became, high, lofty, raised, upraised, uplifted, upreared, exalted, or elevated.
- he or it rose, or rose high.
-he or it rose higher or above.

As a noun it has the following meanings:-
-the higher, or upper, or highest, or uppermost, part of anything.
-the sky, or heavens.

Let us analyze the meaning of the word ‘samaa’’ which is the singular of 'samaawaat'.

When we study the Qur'aan we will see that the word ‘samaa’’ and its plural 'samaawaat' occurs about about 310 times in the Qur'aan. When these verses are studied it will be seen that the word ‘samaa’’ is not an object but refers to the open space that surrounds the objects of the universe or in other words it is the depiction of the vast space in which all the elements of the universe find itself including the Sun, the Moon, and the Stars. It refers to that part of the Universe in which motion and 'clumpiness' take place. Here is a verse of the Qur'aan that gives us that depiction:-

The Qur'aan 22:18
"...that unto ALLAAH bow down whoever is in the 'samaawaat... and the Sun, and the Moon, and the Stars..."

The Qur'aan also gives other descriptions for various types of samaa' such as for example that part immediately above the earth where the birds fly.

The Qur'aan 16:79
"... the birds that are subjected to the jaww (the air or atmosphere) of the samaa’."

The Qur'aan 41:11
Another verse which we shall not go into here says that 'The samaa' was in a certain 'smoke' state and ALLAAH caused it to undergo a state of obedience and then He completed it as seven samaawaat (plural of samaa’). We are told that the seven samaawaat are like enormous spheres one beyond the other and that our position is in the lowest of the samaawaat and is callad the samaa’ of the dunyaa (world or lower world).

The Qur'aan contrasts samaa’ with ‘arD which are two opposing but complementary states of the universe: Space verses Matter; One inherently expansive and the other inherently contractive.

In the next post I shall define the Qur'aan Cosmological Model technical term '‘arD' as found in the great Arabic - English dictionary compiled by Edward William Lane over 53 years prior to the discovery of the expansion of the universe by Edwin Hubble in 1929. After that we shall begin with the construction of the Qur'aan cosmological model.


Below is a graphical illustration for the Qur'aan Cosmological Model Technical Term samaa' (singular of samaawaat).



See you in posts to follow inshaa allaah (If God had willed).

[Darkwind]

Quote

And We made from water every living thing.

Quote

Chemical ingredients of the human body Oxygen 65% Sulfur 0.3 Carbon 18.5 Sodium 0.2 Hydrogen 9.5 Chlorine 0.2 Nitrogen 3.2 Magnesium 0.1 Calcium 1.5 Iodine 0.1 Phosphorous 1.0 Iron 0.1 Potassium 0.4 Everything else 0.1
http://saveyourself....ostly-water.php

He missed that we are 65% water, but we have a bunch of other stuff, too.

Quote

that the heavens and the earth were solid
and
We clave the same in sunder

This is simple, there was no earth at the beginning of the universe, there was hydrogen gas.  You can separate something from something that is not there.

Now here is a site that explains Hindu cosmology. You can read it for yourself I am sure.
http://journalofcosm...tronomy122.html

[Darkwind]

oops double post.

Edited by Darkwind, 13 November 2012 - 12:19 AM.

[al-amiyr]

Darkwind, on 13 November 2012 - 12:17 AM, said:

He missed that we are 65% water, but we have a bunch of other stuff, too.




This is simple, there was no earth at the beginning of the universe, there was hydrogen gas.  You can separate something from something that is not there.

Now here is a site that explains Hindu cosmology. You can read it for yourself I am sure.
http://journalofcosm...tronomy122.html

My dear fellow poster why are you quoting  from the Qur'aan that is not in the Qur'aan? Where in the Qur'aan does it say, and I bold stress your quotation,

Quote

that the heavens and the earth were solid
and
We clave the same in sunder  

Show me the Qur'aanic word that say that it was solid. I will reply in the next thread to your other important statements.

Thanks. It is always enjoyable to have these discussions.