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9/11 theorist who changed his mind


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#31    Babe Ruth

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:31 PM

View PostSquidfish, on 08 June 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

That is a long way to go for the destruction of evidence. If they could orchestrate such an attack, then surely getting rid of some stacks of evidence is not much harder a task without having to destroy the towers with airplanes and explosives. Let's even extend that "they blew the building up" - then why not simply place a really powerful bomb at the first floor, like the Oklahoma bombings? Why not Place a smaller nuke in the center of the whole WTC complex?

Besides, how many people knew of any evidence at all before the attacks? Seems kind of strange since the result of the attacks were more people scrutinizing every floor of what had been WTC after they were destroyed.

That is a long way to go for anything, I say. :tu:

As for your questions, we need a bar and some drinks to talk about them, simply because the answers are so complex.


#32    Babe Ruth

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:35 PM

They didn't need to, Obviousman.  They did not need to fabricate evidence about Iraq, because they just went ahead and did it anyway, without the bloody "evidence".  Yours is a silly hypothetical, and not an analysis of the evidence at all.

There were many things accomplished by the events of 11 September, and many people who benefited, for years to come.


#33    skyeagle409

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 09:59 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 08 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

They didn't need to, Obviousman.  They did not need to fabricate evidence about Iraq, because they just went ahead and did it anyway, without the bloody "evidence".  Yours is a silly hypothetical, and not an analysis of the evidence at all.

There were many things accomplished by the events of 11 September, and many people who benefited, for years to come.

Considering the war in Iraq will cost the United States billions of dollars and VA care of thousands of veterans in the decades to come, I don't think so! Now, after just 11 years since the 911 attacks, the military is financially broke. Layoffs and cutbacks in goods and services have been a reality over the years since the 911 attacks.

Edited by skyeagle409, 08 June 2013 - 10:01 PM.

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#34    Obviousman

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Posted 08 June 2013 - 10:06 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 08 June 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Yours is a silly hypothetical, and not an analysis of the evidence at all.

I think you need to re-evaluate your definition of "silly hypothesis" because what you have said is not correct. FWIW, I am looking at the evidence... all of it. What I am not doing is looking at one small piece of the events, saying "Ah! That supports my demolition theory!" then ignoring other events which contradict that theory.


#35    Babe Ruth

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:15 PM

View PostObviousman, on 08 June 2013 - 10:06 PM, said:

I think you need to re-evaluate your definition of "silly hypothesis" because what you have said is not correct. FWIW, I am looking at the evidence... all of it. What I am not doing is looking at one small piece of the events, saying "Ah! That supports my demolition theory!" then ignoring other events which contradict that theory.

Are you?  Looking at all the evidence?  Somehow, I doubt that.

Are you looking at the testimony of Willie Rodriguez?  Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the dust produced that day?  Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the fumes coming off the pile for weeks?  Are you looking at the lateral ejection of huge pieces of structural steel, several hundred feet outwards?

Are you looking at the analysis of the FDR?  Are you looking at the statements made in the first 30 minutes or so at Shanksville?  Are you looking at the ACARS data for 93?  Are you looking at the design and limitations of the cell phone system?


#36    Obviousman

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 01:37 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 09 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Are you?  Looking at all the evidence?  Somehow, I doubt that.

Are you looking at the testimony of Willie Rodriguez?  Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the dust produced that day?  Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the fumes coming off the pile for weeks?  Are you looking at the lateral ejection of huge pieces of structural steel, several hundred feet outwards?

Are you looking at the analysis of the FDR?  Are you looking at the statements made in the first 30 minutes or so at Shanksville?  Are you looking at the ACARS data for 93?  Are you looking at the design and limitations of the cell phone system?

Yes.  BTW, tread carefully when taking me on in aviation. I've worked in aviation since 1985 and I'd hate for you to make a fool of yourself on the forum.


#37    Babe Ruth

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:08 PM

I beat you by a few years Obviousman--I went to work in the business in 1971.

Do you really believe the aviation angles and implications of the story of the day?  They are impossible in real life.

Possible only in simulators perhaps, and even in them they have problems with the maneuvers of the day.  I'll be watching my peas and Qs, if you know what I mean. :tu:


#38    skyeagle409

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 05:50 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 09 June 2013 - 05:08 PM, said:

Do you really believe the aviation angles and implications of the story of the day?  They are impossible in real life.

You are in error! Did American Airlines and United Airlines announce the loss of their aircraft during the 911 attacks? Yes! Have there been cases where large subsonic airliners exceeded the speed of sound and landed safely? Yes! It is apparent that you are not aware of the capabilities of large aircraft.

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Possible only in simulators perhaps, and even in them they have problems with the maneuvers of the day.  

What is impossible about that slow boring descending turn? I could have gone into the kitchen and made a sandwich and a cup of instant coffee and return to the living room before the terrorist pilot completed his turning maneuver and he didn't complete a full circle either.

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#39    skyeagle409

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 09 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Are you?  Looking at all the evidence?  Somehow, I doubt that.

Are you looking at the testimony of Willie Rodriguez?

Let's take a closer look at William Rodreguez.

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William Rodriguez - Last Man Out: Discovered a Fraud!

We have more then a few things we have discovered about Mr. William Rodriguez, alleged last man out of the world trade center on 9/11 which are extremely suspicious, but none as suspicious as when one draws a simple gracious time-line of William Rodriguez's very own tale of the events and compares it to probability verses possibility verses impossibility. . Unfortunately, no matter how one does the equation of William Rodriguez's tale of events of September the 11th, 2001, last man out, there is no available possibility that his story is true. There is literally no other possibility then that his tale of events is a staggering national hoax and at the crux of an international conspiracy.

His file is growing every day we look into this national hero of 9/11. When one lies and is caught in their lie, there is humiliation. But when one tells a lie thousands and thousands of times, and makes a fat living off of it for 10 years straight, who can describe the humiliation? William Rodriguez has told his lie, on National TV, International TV and beyond. He is by far one of the more prolific liars of the 21st century.

So don't expect William Rodriguez to ever admit to the truth. Even when nobody is listening to him any longer and he is living in a box again. And no, I seriously doubt Willie Rodriguez was ever homeless. That was all part of his "legend." The national hero ignored. National hero homeless. Then finally recognition and redemption., then finally international hero status. Legends take an awful lot of effort to create. Yet fraudulent legends sometimes fall in a matter of minutes, sometimes seconds. It doesn't take much. Just a little bit of truth shining in a dark place.

http://letsrollforum...uez-t24680.html

RICO lawsuit

In October 2004, Rodriguez sued the President of the United States and 155 other parties, accusing them of complicity in the 9/11 attacks.

His 237-page civil lawsuit included allegations pursuant to the RICO (Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act) against The United States Of America, the Federal Emergency Management Agency, the Department of Homeland Security, George Herbert Walker Bush, George W. Bush, Richard Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld,and numerous others, totaling 156 defendants in the US District Court for the Eastern District of Pennsylvania.
In his lawsuit, Rodriguez made hundreds of allegations including allegations that the Twin Towers were destroyed by means of "controlled demolitions;" that members of the FDNY were ordered, on instructions of the CIA, not to talk about it; that the FDNY conspired with Larry Silverstein to deliberately destroy 7WTC; that projectiles were fired at the Twin Towers from “pods” affixed to the underside of the planes that struck them; that FEMA is working with the US government to create “American Gulag” concentration camps which FEMA will run once the federal government’s plan to impose martial law is in place; that phone calls made by some of the victims, as reported by their family members, were not actually made but were "faked" by the government using "voice morphing" technology; that a missile, not American Airlines Flight 77, struck the Pentagon; that United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down by the US military; that the defendants had foreknowledge of the attacks and actively conspired to bring them about; that the defendants engaged in kidnapping, arson, murder, treason, conspiracy, trafficking in narcotics, embezzlement, securities fraud, insider trading, identity and credit card theft, blackmail, trafficking in humans, and the abduction and sale of women and children for sex. In his Complaint, Rodriquez also alleged that he "single-handedly rescued fifteen persons from the WTC".

The matter was transferred to the Southern District of New York on May 2, 2005. In January 2006, Rodriguez swore and filed a 51-page affidavit in opposition to a motion to dismiss, which reiterated and expanded upon his conspiracy allegations. On June 26, 2006, the court dismissed Rodriguez's claims against the USA, DHS, and FEMA, and gave Rodriguez until July 7, 2006 to show cause why his lawsuit should not be dismissed with respect to the other 153 defendants. Rodriguez failed to do so, and the court dismissed all of his claims against all of the remaining 153 defendants on July 17, 2006

http://en.wikipedia....lliam_Rodriguez

Apparently, William Rodriguez was found to be a fraud.

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Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the dust produced that day?

Dust samples were taken in an uncontrolled environment and during clean-up operations when high temperature wands and torches were used to cut steel columns at ground zero.

Posted Image

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Are you looking at the chemical analysis of the fumes coming off the pile for weeks?

Let's take a look here.

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Iron Burns

"Sometimes a big load of iron in a ship can get hot. The heat can even set other materials on fire. That’s because the iron is rusting, which means it is burning very, very slowly. Iron rusts in a chemical reaction calledoxidation. That means the iron reacts with oxygen gas from the air. Oxidation is the chemical reaction that occurs when anything burns in air.  Like most oxidations, rusting gives off heat."


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Are you looking at the lateral ejection of huge pieces of structural steel, several hundred feet outwards?

All within the laws of physics.

Quote

Are you looking at the analysis of the FDR?

Quote


Flight AA77 on 9/11: New FDR Analysis Supports the Official Flight Path Leading to Impact with the Pentagon

http://journalof911s...ltimeter_92.pdf


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Are you looking at the statements made in the first 30 minutes or so at Shanksville?

Quote


United Airlines has now confirmed that two of its aircraft have crashed

— UA 93, a Boeing 757 aircraft, departed from Newark, N.J. at 8:01 a.m. local time, bound for San Francisco, with 38 passengers on board, two pilots, five flight attendants.

http://www.washingto..._text091101.htm


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Are you looking at the ACARS data for 93?

I made a call to ARINC, the ACARS experts, and from what they have indicated to me, I can safely say that 911 conspiracist are incorrect concerning their false claims on ACARS.

Quote

Are you looking at the design and limitations of the cell phone system?

Let's take a look here.


GTE Airfone recovered from flight 93 wreckage

Posted Image


Posted Image



As you can see, phone call records have shown that  phone calls were placed aboard the aircraft and of all of the calls made aboard the flight, only two calls were made on cell phones, and those two cell phone calls were made at 5000 feet and below, and nowhere near 30,000 feet.






Edited by skyeagle409, 09 June 2013 - 08:03 PM.

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#40    Czero 101

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostObviousman, on 09 June 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Yes.  BTW, tread carefully when taking me on in aviation. I've worked in aviation since 1985 and I'd hate for you to make a fool of yourself on the forum.

Way, WAY too late, Obviousman...

Making a fool of himself (about more than just his claimed aviation expertise is disciplines relevant to the 9/11 discussion such as Crop Dusting and flying a helicopter) is the only thing that BR has been able to successfully do here.






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#41    shrooma

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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:35 PM

.....but on the plus side-
at least charlie won't be getting any more emails from david icke.
every cloud & all that.....

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#42    Likely Guy

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 01:02 AM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 09 June 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:



Are you?  Looking at all the evidence?  Somehow, I doubt that.

Are you looking at the testimony of Willie Rodriguez?...

I'm a 9/11 neophyte and I know that his testimony has holes big enough that you could drive a truck through it. :)


#43    Babe Ruth

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostLikely Guy, on 10 June 2013 - 01:02 AM, said:

I'm a 9/11 neophyte and I know that his testimony has holes big enough that you could drive a truck through it. :)

How so?


#44    skyeagle409

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 04:56 PM

View PostBabe Ruth, on 10 June 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

How so?

You can begin here.

William Rodriguez: A Fraud


http://letsrollforum...uez-t24680.html

http://www.911myths...._rodriguez.html

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#45    Babe Ruth

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Posted 10 June 2013 - 07:59 PM

I was rather hoping that Likely Guy could explain/defend his statement.

More pap from Sky is....well....just more pap.





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