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Provocative clothing invites attacks?


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#376    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:14 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

Bingo! Post of the day!
What makes it the post of the day?    Because it's insulting to me personally, or because it's substantially wrong?  

Good police work studies the motives of a crime, and yet here we go again, applying another double standard solely to rape.  I'm almost ashamed at the deliberate ignorance, this lethargy on display here in this "Post of the day", to prevent violent crime just because it happens to be rape.   That's just a matter of incidence.  We could be talking about murder here and the reason someone isn't going to say that they don't want to get in the mind of a murderer is because they don't have the politically correct altruistic attitude towards women to say it with.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#377    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:19 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

As has been pointed out numerous times, no one dressed it up like an MMA fight - it was only you that thought it sounded the same, that is your problem though, nothing to do with the discussion about rape.

Is there anything else worth discussing? it's just i'm not really into explaining things again and again to the same person, so if anything new comes to light, let me know :tu:
Yes someone did, and it was ridiculous.   Stripping sex from rape is dishonest and it serves these derelict attitudes that cause the horrible problems in our society that sex is prerequisite of.

You can't know that the entire community here is incapable of bringing something to the discussion that even you find palatable, so don't ask me if there's anything worth discussing here.  Neither one of us have the vantage point to know or claim that.    If you want to hamstring a discussion because you can't handle its expansion, that's on you buddy.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#378    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:22 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:14 PM, said:

What makes it the post of the day? Because it's insulting to me personally, or because it's substantially wrong?  

Good police work studies the motives of a crime, and yet here we go again, applying another double standard solely to rape.  I'm almost ashamed at the deliberate ignorance, this lethargy on display here in this "Post of the day", to prevent violent crime just because it happens to be rape.   That's just a matter of incidence.  We could be talking about murder here and the reason someone isn't going to say that they don't want to get in the mind of a murderer is because they don't have the politically correct altruistic attitude towards women to say it with.

It was post of the day for me for the opening sentence, i.e it's not the hottest topic of the day, it's the stupidest.

You are tiresome in the extreme though at your attempts to paint people in a different light to what their posts say - it's starting to get irritating now. Nobody is saying they don't want to prevent violent crime, what they are telling you, and keep telling you is that they differ in what they see as the right approach, the motives, and causes of rape. Of course you'll ignore that, in order to place yourself above others in some strange attempt to appear to have a better insight into these matters.

Go on, lets here the next pointless twist on someones post.....

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#379    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:24 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Yes someone did, and it was ridiculous.   Stripping sex from rape is dishonest and it serves these derelict attitudes that cause the horrible problems in our society that sex is prerequisite of.

You can't know that the entire community here is incapable of bringing something to the discussion that even you find palatable, so don't ask me if there's anything worth discussing here.  Neither one of us have the vantage point to know or claim that. If you want to hamstring a discussion because you can't handle its expansion, that's on you buddy.

Expansion? Good.

Repeating the same points to you because you fail to grasp simple points? Not good.

And example of you failing to grasp simple points - nobody stripped sex from rape, it's whether it's the primary motive that's being discussed, since clothing was made an issue, but only works if control and violence are secondary motives - the studies show othrwise, so your opinion on it becomes moot if studies show other over riding factors

Edited by Sky Scanner, 07 January 2013 - 01:27 PM.

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#380    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:27 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

It was post of the day for me for the opening sentence, i.e it's not the hottest topic of the day, it's the stupidest.

You are tiresome in the extreme though at your attempts to paint people in a different light to what their posts say - it's starting to get irritating now. Nobody is saying they don't want to prevent violent crime, what they are telling you, and keep telling you is that they differ in what they see as the right approach, the motives, and causes of rape. Of course you'll ignore that, in order to place yourself above others in some strange attempt to appear to have a better insight into these matters.

Go on, lets here the next pointless twist on someones post.....
I'm not ignoring anything!   What are you talking about?    You should provide some evidence for these baseless accusations, if you even can.   I have good reasons to have the principle that I do and there's nothing stupid about preventing crime.    You running and hiding from the fact that the causes of rape can be behaviorally dependent is not my problem.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#381    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:27 PM, said:

I'm not ignoring anything!   What are you talking about? You should provide some evidence for these baseless accusations, if you even can.   I have good reasons to have the principle that I do and there's nothing stupid about preventing crime. You running and hiding from the fact that the causes of rape can be behaviorally dependent is not my problem.

Can be, as can many other factors as have already been discussed. What's your next point?

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#382    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:24 PM, said:

Expansion? Good.

Repeating the same points to you because you fail to grasp simple points? Not good.

And example of you failing to grasp simple points - nobody stripped sex from rape, it's whether it's the primary motive that's being discussed, since clothing was made an issue, but only works if control and violence are secondary motives - the studies show othrwise, so your opinion on it becomes moot if studies show other over riding factors
Yes they did.  They said sex had nothing to do with rape.  Don't lie here by accident or on purpose please.   The quotes are there.  Go back and review this thread that you weren't participating in before telling me what wasn't said.

You're obviously irritated and I suggest cooling your jets and stopping what's starting to look like a deliberate thread hijacking.  Okay?   We can agree to disagree, and move merrily along.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#383    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:32 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Can be, as can many other factors as have already been discussed. What's your next point?
Yes, CAN BE.  And other factors that have yet to be discussed.  That's what expanding the discussion is all about.   Open the floor to more factors, if you wish.  If not, find something else to do.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#384    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:35 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:30 PM, said:

Yes they did.  They said sex had nothing to do with rape.  Don't lie here by accident or on purpose please.   The quotes are there.  Go back and review this thread that you weren't participating in before telling me what wasn't said.

Surely you can see in saying that they are referring to motivation, since sex is part of the act, so they can't be referring to the act in it's entirity, but what drives it - surely that's obvious though isn't it?

Quote

You're obviously irritated and I suggest cooling your jets and stopping what's starting to look like a deliberate thread hijacking.  Okay?   We can agree to disagree, and move merrily along.

I appreciate your concern, but it's only repeating myself and explaining again and again that gets tiresome - other then that i'm fine :)

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#385    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:38 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Yes, CAN BE.  And other factors that have yet to be discussed.  That's what expanding the discussion is all about.   Open the floor to more factors, if you wish.  If not, find something else to do.

You seem to be late to the discussion, people have posted links and sources to many studies that show underlying motivations for rape, they were largely ignored in favor of pointless point scoring - go and read them and then you'll know the other factors yourself.

Edited by Sky Scanner, 07 January 2013 - 01:38 PM.

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#386    Lilly

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:40 PM

*Checks to see if her post with the link to actual sociological research is still there*

Actual Evidence does exist clarifying the subject. I did post a link to it a couple of pages back.

Here's the opening paragraph:

Quote

Rape myths are beliefs about sexual assault that wrought with problems. Some myths are just completely and blatantly untrue. What often happens is that beliefs surrounding circumstances, situations, and characteristics of individuals connected to rape are applied to all cases and situations uncritically. Myths exist for many historic reasons which include inherited structural conditions, gender role expectations, and the fundamental exercise of power in a patriarchal society. The best way to approach rape myths are to confront them honestly and frankly. Don't deny their existence and don't dismiss one ungrounded statement with another.

It would be a real good idea to read this link: http://www.d.umn.edu...3925/myths.html



"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#387    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:44 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Surely you can see in saying that they are referring to motivation, since sex is part of the act, so they can't be referring to the act in it's entirity, but what drives it - surely that's obvious though isn't it?
No, saying that rape has nothing to do with sex was wrong whether it has anything to do with motivation or not.   The tight clothing that the priest ranted about doesn't seem plausible.  To be this deliberately ignorant that personal behavior causes rape is another issue.

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela

#388    TSS

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

View PostYamato, on 07 January 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

No, saying that rape has nothing to do with sex was wrong whether it has anything to do with motivation or not.   The tight clothing that the priest ranted about doesn't seem plausible.  To be this deliberately ignorant that personal behavior causes rape is another issue.

Well it was obvious to me what they meant, since you can't remove the act from the act itself, so there is only one meaning behind it imo.

"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure Science". ~ Edwin Powell Hubble

#389    Lilly

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:50 PM

This:

Quote

Myth: Women incite men to rape.

Fact: Research has found that the vast majority of rapes are planned. Rape is the responsibility of the rapist alone. Women, children and men of every age, physical type and demeanor are raped. Opportunity is the most important factor determining when a given rapist will rape.

Pretty much negates the vast majority of what's being presented here.



"Ignorance is ignorance. It is a state of mind, not an opinion." ~MID~

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#390    Yamato

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Posted 07 January 2013 - 01:52 PM

View PostSky Scanner, on 07 January 2013 - 01:38 PM, said:

You seem to be late to the discussion, people have posted links and sources to many studies that show underlying motivations for rape, they were largely ignored in favor of pointless point scoring - go and read them and then you'll know the other factors yourself.
I know what the factors are, that's why my principle holds water.   Preventable decisions and personal behavior causes rape.  That's important to know and understand and if you don't understand it, then you're the one that hasn't looked at the data.

You haven't even cited sources yourself, you came here starting rhetorical banter and personal argument with me.  The Pot calling the Kettle.

http://en.wikipedia....sexual_violence

"Peace cannot be achieved by force, only by understanding."  ~ Albert Einstein

"To deny people their human rights is to challenge their very humanity.   To impose on them a wretched life of hunger and deprivation is to dehumanize them." ~ Nelson Mandela




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