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James Holmes, Aurora Mass Killer


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#16    regi

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Posted 05 April 2013 - 01:30 PM

View PostAaronsmom, on 30 March 2013 - 06:03 AM, said:

Part of what you say I think is relevant, and that would be to look at patterns in the escalation of the signs of deepening psychiatric illness in these mass killings with an arsenal of weapons, including combat-style firearms. This was the case with James Holmes and Adam Lanza in the Newtown school massacre, as well as several others. It could be illuminating to find commonalities in the nature and progression of the mental illnesses of these killers. Is there something that could signal to those in close contact with these people, like family and treatment professionals, when to recognize how dangerous they are, and what might be done to provide major crisis intervention to prevent a tragedy? I can think of other common patterns that would be important to identify--as early as possible--when a troubled person has a crossed a line that makes him or her a very dangerous threat to the public. You know who the person I would like the least to be right now? The psychiatrist who was supposedly treating James Holmes when his life began to unravel. I can only imagine the guilt she is carrying with her every day, the second-guessing she must be doing as to how things might have played out differently had she seen the signs early enough.

Great post, Aaronsmom!
Re: the psychiatrist, she must not have concluded that Holmes was a threat to himself or others.
I don't know what her records suggest about Holmes' mental status, but the following was learned in the Charles Whitman case.

According to the book, A Sniper In The Tower by Gary M. Lavergne, five months previous to the actual event, Whitman told a psychiatrist that "he often thought about  'going on the top of the U of Tx. tower with a deer rifle and shoot people'". The psychiatrist had heard many references to the tower before and he "interpreted it as a 'transient feeling' or an expression of depression common among students." He didn't think Whitman was dangerous, but asked him to return the following week. Whitman never returned.
"Minutes after Charlie Whitman left his office, Dr. Maurice Dean Heatly recorded notes on the session. He had no idea that the document numbered 8009, would become the most scrutinized document of his career and that it would change his life forever."


#17    little_dreamer

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:02 AM

I think Whitman was later found to have a brain tumor during his autopsy.

Anyway, more info was released on the contents of Holmes' apartment.   It seems to show detailed planning on his part.  Not likely a raving lunatic could have pulled it all together. http://news.yahoo.co...-192824689.html

Edited by little_dreamer, 06 April 2013 - 12:03 AM.

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#18    ChewiesArmy

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 02:30 AM

View Postlittle_dreamer, on 06 April 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I think Whitman was later found to have a brain tumor during his autopsy.

Anyway, more info was released on the contents of Holmes' apartment.   It seems to show detailed planning on his part.  Not likely a raving lunatic could have pulled it all together. http://news.yahoo.co...-192824689.html

I'm not buying the 'he is totally psycho' argument either. He has psychiatric issues, but we all do, although his does seem a little worse then most. That being said, he shows careful planning and premeditation before carrying this out which to me shows that he knew the damage he was going to cause. He knew it was wrong. There is a reason why he did this, and he knows it, but it will probably have to be figured out because he will never say. He can't, as soon as he says why he did this, his insanity case is gone. He's not insane. I don't think any of these mass murderser are totally insane, they knew it was wrong.

Personally, I think people like him, the Columbine kids, and the Sandy Hook kid, and all other mass murderers are scared, lonely, and selfish people. They want to gain fame before they die; they want to be somebody important, and the only why they know how is through infamy. This is why I have a problem with the media sensationalizing the victims.

The media just loves events like this....instant ratings! They shove the victims down our throats in a way just to get ratings. What does this do? This shows the next idiot just how much damage is done to people, just how much of a statement they can make by carrying out a similar event, but they know they need to make it even more horrifying.

Edited by ChewiesArmy, 06 April 2013 - 02:31 AM.

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#19    regi

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Posted 06 April 2013 - 12:59 PM

View Postlittle_dreamer, on 06 April 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I think Whitman was later found to have a brain tumor during his autopsy.

Anyway, more info was released on the contents of Holmes' apartment.   It seems to show detailed planning on his part.  Not likely a raving lunatic could have pulled it all together. http://news.yahoo.co...-192824689.html

I don't think either Whitman or Holmes were 'raving lunatics'. Neither was insane. Both crimes were premeditated. (Very calculated in the preparation and then the execution of their plans.)

Yes, there was a brain tumor found at Whitman's autopsy, but I believe it was incidental, and that Whitman was essentially no different than any other mass murderer.


#20    Detective Mystery 2015

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 02:43 AM

View Postregi, on 06 April 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I don't think either Whitman or Holmes were 'raving lunatics'. Neither was insane. Both crimes were premeditated. (Very calculated in the preparation and then the execution of their plans.)

Yes, there was a brain tumor found at Whitman's autopsy, but I believe it was incidental, and that Whitman was essentially no different than any other mass murderer.

Both the Colorado killer and the Connecticut killer planned and prepared their murders. I'm not sure about the Arizona killer. All of them knew what they were doing. Whitman likely isn't in the same category, though. He actually snapped in a way that was out of character for him. It was a relatively spontaneous act. The malignancy or mass in his brain likely played the main role in his particular case. That's not to say that he absolutely couldn't control his actions.

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#21    regi

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 12:48 PM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 07 April 2013 - 02:43 AM, said:

Both the Colorado killer and the Connecticut killer planned and prepared their murders. I'm not sure about the Arizona killer. All of them knew what they were doing. Whitman likely isn't in the same category, though. He actually snapped in a way that was out of character for him. It was a relatively spontaneous act. The malignancy or mass in his brain likely played the main role in his particular case. That's not to say that he absolutely couldn't control his actions.

That's why I say "I believe" and "I don't think"...because I know everyone will have their own opinion.

I agree that the mass murderers you referred to definitely knew what they were doing.

Re: Whitman, info I've read is that the tumor was malignant and that it was a very aggressive one.
According to his writings, Whitman predicted that there was a medical problem.
Of course, how much of a factor it was- or if it factored at all- in what he ultimately decided to do is something that will never be known conclusively.


#22    regi

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Posted 07 April 2013 - 01:08 PM

According to the following articles, it sounds to me that the psychiatrist who was treating Holmes had cause to have him committed.

http://www.cnn.com/2...ting/index.html

http://www.usatoday....iatrist/2057991


#23    Aaronsmom

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Posted 11 April 2013 - 04:38 AM

View Postlittle_dreamer, on 06 April 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

I think Whitman was later found to have a brain tumor during his autopsy.

Anyway, more info was released on the contents of Holmes' apartment.   It seems to show detailed planning on his part.  Not likely a raving lunatic could have pulled it all together.    http://news.yahoo.co...-192824689.html

Yes, little dreamer, you're right. It's pretty clear Holmes planned out his massacre for months preceding, systematically and methodically. The whole set-up at the theater, with his car parked near the emergency exit, loaded with a whole arsenal of combat weaponry shows strategic planning befitting of brilliant generals. If his mental illness precluded an ability to tell right from wrong, no way would there be such elaborate camouflage to sneak his arsenal into the theater undetected. A person so delusional as to be clueless of right and wrong would not go to any trouble to hide weaponry. Holmes doesn't fit the profile of "not guilty by reason of insanity". He has no remorse...or doesn't seem to. But that's not the kind of mental illness that meets the term insanity under definition of the law. Why the psychiatrist treating Holmes didn't recognize the signs of the danger posed by Holmes' deepening psychosis I can't say. One thing I do agree with the NRA about is that gun control isn't the whole remedy. Much more serious attention must be paid to people battling mental illness and educating the public (and treatment professionals) on recognizing the signs of people who are in serious trouble (mentally).


#24    regi

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Posted 12 April 2013 - 12:54 PM

View PostAaronsmom, on 11 April 2013 - 04:38 AM, said:

Why the psychiatrist treating Holmes didn't recognize the signs of the danger posed by Holmes' deepening psychosis I can't say. Much more serious attention must be paid to people battling mental illness and educating the public (and treatment professionals) on recognizing the signs of people who are in serious trouble (mentally).

Oh, but that psychiatrist did recognize the signs of danger... she showed that by reporting Holmes to authorities.
The issue I see is that once Holmes made specific threats, she had the authority to have him involuntarily committed for evaluation...for 24 hours, or 72 hours, I don't know.
Of course, no one can say whether or not that would have made a difference, but that's beside the point; it appears to me that she did have cause to commit him.





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