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DHS Supplier Provides Shooting Targets of


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#46    Drayno

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostStellar, on 20 February 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

To train people not to hesitate shooting someone that is clearly posing a threat to them.

And for all you people who are saying that the old man has a "right" to point a shotgun at a cop if the cop is in his home, you try doing it and see what happens.

So a man doesn't have the right to defend himself on his own property? Cops, like every one else, are human - and are often used or manipulated for different ends. A cop can be no more tyrannical than a politician. Does that mean all cops are bad? No. There are some very friendly, fun loving, peaceful cops who just want to do their job with no trouble. But let's say a cop has orders to confiscate your weapons and forcefully enters your property - what would you do? Do you believe a man has no right to defend himself on his own land just because the person going after him, albeit crooked, is still a "cop"?

Petty titles mean little when the ones meant to serve you turn against your best interests.

The definition of forcing someone to comply with something extrajudicial or against their will is tyranny.

Edited by Eonwe, 20 February 2013 - 07:57 PM.

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#47    rashore

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 07:59 PM

View PostEonwe, on 20 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

What logic can you roll out that can defend these people buying targets of children, pregnant people, or elderly people in their own home?

Because the scenario could happen. Call comes in, LEO comes onto the scene, homeowner has a firearm and automatically trains it on whoever walks through the door. I know that if I were using a firearm in a home defense senario, the first LEO to open the door might be looking down the barrel at a hostile person. Or report comes in about a kid in the yard with a gun and the cops come on the scene weapons drawn because they don't know what to expect. Mom on the playground decides the courts are not going to take away her kids and uses a gun to try to keep them. Cops go onto the property of a cranky old man, and the old man tells them to get the eff off, waving a shotgun at them. Or a whole bunch of other plausible Non-traditional hostile scenarios.

Really, we read in the news about situations like these.

Again without more information, I'm not trying to make any comment about the whole thing. I was just suggesting some scenarios that would be plausible. And really the thread is moving too fast for me to keep up with, heh.


#48    Eldorado

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:01 PM

Meh... if you want your security forces to be ruthless you can't be squeamish about it.


#49    Drayno

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:02 PM

View Postrashore, on 20 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Because the scenario could happen. Call comes in, LEO comes onto the scene, homeowner has a firearm and automatically trains it on whoever walks through the door. I know that if I were using a firearm in a home defense senario, the first LEO to open the door might be looking down the barrel at a hostile person. Or report comes in about a kid in the yard with a gun and the cops come on the scene weapons drawn because they don't know what to expect. Mom on the playground decides the courts are not going to take away her kids and uses a gun to try to keep them. Cops go onto the property of a cranky old man, and the old man tells them to get the eff off, waving a shotgun at them. Or a whole bunch of other plausible Non-traditional hostile scenarios.

Really, we read in the news about situations like these.

Again without more information, I'm not trying to make any comment about the whole thing. I was just suggesting some scenarios that would be plausible. And really the thread is moving too fast for me to keep up with, heh.

Fair enough.

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#50    RavenHawk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:05 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 07:40 PM, said:

That is a likely scenario Stellar. Recent history has an old man holed up in a bunker with a young  boy and they were able to extract him using tactical training techniques.
This is a bit different.  This old man was held up in a bunker.  He wasn't in a position to "surprise" law enforcement.  He was a known target in a bunker.

Quote

So the fact the old man has a gun and is willing to defend his home is not an obscure idea in America.
Now you're getting it.  The government isn't afraid of someone held up in a bunker.  They are afraid of those that believe in the Constitution and are willing to stand up to tyranny.

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#51    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:06 PM

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Because the scenario could happen. Call comes in, LEO comes onto the scene, homeowner has a firearm and automatically trains it on whoever walks through the door. I know that if I were using a firearm in a home defense senario, the first LEO to open the door might be looking down the barrel at a hostile person. Or report comes in about a kid in the yard with a gun and the cops come on the scene weapons drawn because they don't know what to expect. Mom on the playground decides the courts are not going to take away her kids and uses a gun to try to keep them. Cops go onto the property of a cranky old man, and the old man tells them to get the eff off, waving a shotgun at them. Or a whole bunch of other plausible Non-traditional hostile scenarios.

There are other parts of this agency that are equiped to deal with these scenarios in anon violent way.


#52    Professor Buzzkill

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:11 PM

View Postrashore, on 20 February 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Because the scenario could happen. Call comes in, LEO comes onto the scene, homeowner has a firearm and automatically trains it on whoever walks through the door. I know that if I were using a firearm in a home defense senario, the first LEO to open the door might be looking down the barrel at a hostile person. Or report comes in about a kid in the yard with a gun and the cops come on the scene weapons drawn because they don't know what to expect. Mom on the playground decides the courts are not going to take away her kids and uses a gun to try to keep them. Cops go onto the property of a cranky old man, and the old man tells them to get the eff off, waving a shotgun at them. Or a whole bunch of other plausible Non-traditional hostile scenarios.

Really, we read in the news about situations like these.

Again without more information, I'm not trying to make any comment about the whole thing. I was just suggesting some scenarios that would be plausible. And really the thread is moving too fast for me to keep up with, heh.

This is quite true. However, i would bet that all of the situations you mention combined only account for less than 1% off all police shootings. Why practise for this 1% over and above the 99% of situations (i.e hostage situation, car jacking/pursuit, armed robbery etc). Are these types of events predicted to increase for some reason?


#53    and then

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:13 PM

View PostEonwe, on 20 February 2013 - 07:09 PM, said:

My post was sarcastic.

Any one with a clear mind would see that an old man in his home with a shotgun is not a threat - a police officer in his home, trying to take his guns away - that's the real threat. The only reason an old man would grab a shotgun in his home to defend himself would be just that - to defend himself. They're taking it to the next level - which is practicing taking out people in their own homes to warm up against people with guns who resist unconstitutional gun laws or executive orders.
And if such a thing happens then the LEO's who come to the door are agents of an illegal government at that point.  The old man, pregnant woman OR school child has just become the "minuteman" of our modern age.  Just remember G Gordon Liddy's advice after WACO:LIDDY: Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests.

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#54    Drayno

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:14 PM

View Postand then, on 20 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

And if such a thing happens then the LEO's who come to the door are agents of an illegal government at that point.  The old man, pregnant woman OR school child has just become the "minuteman" of our modern age.  Just remember G Gordon Liddy's advice after WACO:LIDDY: Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests.

Amen.

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#55    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

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Ruby Ridge, Waco....That college back in the 60's ...

@Silver Thong..those people were fighting for rights as well


#56    RavenHawk

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:15 PM

View PostStellar, on 20 February 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

It's a ******* target for christs sake. Where are you getting this whole "entering her house without her consent" bull****? It's a piece of paper designed to train people to not hesitate shooting someone posing a threat. The goal of training is to prepare them for anything.
And how often will US soldiers be faced with pregnant US Citizens?  The military deals with pregnant women carrying guns in Afghanistan and Iraq all the time.  They aren't going to be surprised.  These targets are nothing more than to desensitize the soldier from going against Americans.  I really don't think it is going to work.  After the first incident of a pregnant woman or child getting shot, there will be open rebellion and the majority of the military will join the people.

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#57    rashore

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:16 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 February 2013 - 08:06 PM, said:

There are other parts of this agency that are equiped to deal with these scenarios in anon violent way.

The DHS or LEO? I wasn't speaking of the DHS, just the LEO. Like local cops. That's why I only used the terms LEO and cops.

And Buzzkill... Why only this 1%? Perhaps because it's just a tiny part of their entire target and scenario catalog and we don't know about it because their website is down? I was only trying to state some plausible reasons for these particular targets in correlation to LEO, nothing else.

Crud, and now a few more posts have blown by... pttht...


#58    Uncle Sam

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:18 PM

View Postand then, on 20 February 2013 - 08:13 PM, said:

And if such a thing happens then the LEO's who come to the door are agents of an illegal government at that point.  The old man, pregnant woman OR school child has just become the "minuteman" of our modern age.  Just remember G Gordon Liddy's advice after WACO:LIDDY: Well, if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests.

I never missed a head shot. I mastered the double tap, one in the chest and one in the head. Pistol and Rifles. Never would I want to take another person's life, but if it boils down to my freedoms or being enslaved, I choose my freedoms above a tyrant government that threatens to take away my rights. You would see me in the forefront of the battlefield. I wouldn't pride myself in it, but I will do what needs to be done to keep my children future and other's future free of tyrant governments. Unlike other civilians out there, I had the benefit to being trained by multiple ex-servicemen in multiple types of scenarios.

Edited by Uncle Sam, 20 February 2013 - 08:22 PM.

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#59    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:19 PM

With the number of open carry states in America and the right to bear arms and defend your home and property being legal. This would be a stupid thing to train for and can only be viewed as an agitative act by DHS towards us the citizens.


#60    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 08:22 PM

Quote

The DHS or LEO

Both Swat and DHS have hostage negotiation teams.





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