51 replies to this topic

[libstaK]

Ron Jeremy, on 27 September 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I tried to covert to Buddhism but scratched that after learning about their version of Hell. Christian Hell got nothing on Buddhist Hell. I found it so disgusting and couldn't see Buddhism in a favorable view.

18 levels of Hell, yeah that bites
http://wenhousecraft...places/hell.htm

or facing Mara as your final test before enlightenment?

Oh well, at least there is always an opportunity to overcome the hells and Mara for oneself eh?

[Darkwind]

Good find,  lK.  I wasn't expecting it to be that well written until I saw who wrote it.   I thought it was a very good take on the so called war on religion. My thought is y'all (Abrahamic faiths)  are making a war on your selves. We the world (the sane people) have much more important things going on besides which Sky Pilot is the best to obey.   I could to a lot of typing on this, but Berry explains it so well.



I am so glad he updated that song.

forgot spellcheck.

Edited by Darkwind, 27 September 2012 - 04:37 PM.

[Taun]

I'm not a theologian by any stretch of the imagination, but it is my understanding that "Hell" as we tend to view it today is not supported by Biblical writtings..

From what I understand (and i could be wrong) Hell was basically described as merely being outside of Gods Grace - basically abandoned for eternity, forced to 'live' a brutish and unloved existence... The 'wailing and gnashing of teeth' was because you had realized that you had 'blown it big time'...

The current 'version' of Hell was essentially created whole cloth by Dante Aligheri in the very early 14th century...

Edited by Taun, 27 September 2012 - 05:01 PM.

[MysticStrummer]

Ron Jeremy, on 27 September 2012 - 03:30 PM, said:

I tried to covert to Buddhism but scratched that after learning about their version of Hell. Christian Hell got nothing on Buddhist Hell. I found it so disgusting and couldn't see Buddhism in a favorable view.

As with many religions, Buddhism has various groups within it that believe different things. Some talk about reincarnation and some don't, for instance. It's the same with their idea of Hell. Some groups teach that concept and some don't. Zen Buddhism appeals to me personally because of it's simplicity, and lack of most common religious trappings such as Heaven and Hell. Even Zen has sub-groups though.

Edited by MysticStrummer, 28 September 2012 - 10:25 AM.

[libstaK]

Darkwind, on 27 September 2012 - 04:33 PM, said:

Good find,  lK.  I wasn't expecting it to be that well written until I saw who wrote it.   I thought it was a very good take on the so called war on religion. My thought is y'all (Abrahamic faiths)  are making a war on your selves. We the world (the sane people) have much more important things going on besides which Sky Pilot is the best to obey.   I could to a lot of typing on this, but Berry explains it so well.



I am so glad he updated that song.

forgot spellcheck.

Thanks for that clip Darkwind, brought a tear to my ear and a choke or two, fantastic remake of a great song and I recommend anyone to watch that clip, - gets you where you live

Edited by libstaK, 28 September 2012 - 10:38 AM.

[Order66]

Golly Buster, on 25 September 2012 - 06:25 AM, said:

Huh???????????????????

I think its a superficial understanding of hell written by a superficial writer. Here's what the article boils down to:

libstaK, on 25 September 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

So whether you're an atheist or not, the issue of who's going to hell or not matters because there are a lot of folks on this planet – many of them extraordinarily well-armed - from born-again American military personnel to Muslim fanatics, who seriously believe that God smiles upon them when they send their enemies to hell.

In other words: you stupid redneck Christians are just as bad as Muslim extremists, mindlessly fighting wars over your 'religions'. Religion is the real enemy, be an enlightened moral relativist like me and realize that nobody is right or wrong, all we need is peace and love and understanding ( it's working great in Libya ).

[Ninhursag]

"Should we abandon the Idea of Hell?"

- Yes We Should .. Hell Is A State Of Being, Not A Place ..

[sutemi]

Does Hell exist? Yes I see it every day on the news, war, greed, hatred and then there are the bits the news editors don’t like to show the 8 MILLION children who die every year, from starvation and dirty water. HELL = dying from diarrhoea, can you imagine that? Yet there it is every day children die every few seconds, there 143 million orphans in the world, but we worry about the latest I Phone! what a mess the people of the modern world are in. Does the religious hell exist? the one used to frighten and control the flock, No! The concept is a total load of rubbish.

“Can we practice our respective faiths without referring to or invoking the "hell" aspect?” Well what most religions have evolved into, does seem to require it. Funny thing, many religions of the world contribute to this world being a hell, they teach separation, ”I am a (insert religion) they say. But they are not, they are Human Beings! How blind these people are they don’t know what they are. Through Inner focus we can know our true self we can see we are all one. Just because we like/love a particular teacher / master from the past should not mean we separate ourselves from the rest of humanity.  As Anna Pereira says,” Spirituality is NOT a religion! Being spiritual just means you are in touch with your own Divine self.” When will we let go of these divisions and the hatred they produce? One People, One World and One Creator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ9gZLW1kvM  “Be the change”

“In the sky there is no distinction of east or west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true”. Buddha  

Edited by sutemi, 01 October 2012 - 10:47 AM.

[libstaK]

sutemi, on 01 October 2012 - 10:45 AM, said:

Does Hell exist? Yes I see it every day on the news, war, greed, hatred and then there are the bits the news editors don’t like to show the 8 MILLION children who die every year, from starvation and dirty water. HELL = dying from diarrhoea, can you imagine that? Yet there it is every day children die every few seconds, there 143 million orphans in the world, but we worry about the latest I Phone! what a mess the people of the modern world are in. Does the religious hell exist? the one used to frighten and control the flock, No! The concept is a total load of rubbish.

“Can we practice our respective faiths without referring to or invoking the "hell" aspect?” Well what most religions have evolved into, does seem to require it. Funny thing, many religions of the world contribute to this world being a hell, they teach separation, ”I am a (insert religion) they say. But they are not, they are Human Beings! How blind these people are they don’t know what they are. Through Inner focus we can know our true self we can see we are all one. Just because we like/love a particular teacher / master from the past should not mean we separate ourselves from the rest of humanity.  As Anna Pereira says,” Spirituality is NOT a religion! Being spiritual just means you are in touch with your own Divine self.” When will we let go of these divisions and the hatred they produce? One People, One World and One Creator.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jZ9gZLW1kvM  “Be the change”

“In the sky there is no distinction of east or west; people create distinctions out of their own minds and then believe them to be true”. Buddha  

You put that so beautifully, I felt the movement in my soul.  Thank you.

love that quote from Buddha too, how true.

edit to add: love that clip.

Edited by libstaK, 01 October 2012 - 11:16 AM.

[Mr Right Wing]

libstaK, on 25 September 2012 - 05:52 AM, said:

So what do you think?  Can we practice faith as believers without considering hell and retribution for those who transgress?  How does focussing on what is "wrong" with ourselves and our fellow man evolve our spirit?  Could we practice empathy and tolerance towards our fellow man without concern of judgement and salvation?

What is of more value for the human spirit to have mastery of - a belief in heaven and hell or a belief in the potential of mankind (ourselves) to be harbingers of peace, tolerance and forgiveness?

Those are just some questions the article brought up for me, what are your thoughts?

One thing I've noticed over the years is that those who violate others rights live lives which are a disaster.

Whether its alienating people, losing their jobs, getting their heads kicked in or being locked up in a prison cell they cause their own suffering. I have seen many with a narcissistic-sociopthic mentality who suffer time and time again because they seem incapable of grasping what the implications of their behaviour will be.

My answer to your question is that hell is a state of mind not a place. Revenge is also a good thing as it provides appropiate feedback to the person who violated your rights. Not that most of them will learn from it.

[libstaK]

Mr Right Wing, on 01 October 2012 - 11:18 AM, said:

One thing I've noticed over the years is that those who violate others rights live lives which are a disaster.

Whether its alienating people, losing their jobs, getting their heads kicked in or being locked up in a prison cell they cause their own suffering. I have seen many with a narcissistic-sociopthic mentality who suffer time and time again because they seem incapable of grasping what the implications of their behaviour will be.

My answer to your question is that hell is a state of mind not a place. Revenge is also a good thing as it provides appropiate feedback to the person who violated your rights. Not that most of them will learn from it.

I agree with the first two paragraphs, but I think Revenge is unnecessary, you said it yourself these people will reap what they sow.  An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.  Someone needs to break the cycle before it spirals out of control. Someone needs to "be the change" they'd like to see as sutemi so beautifully said.

I don't blame those who fall into vengefulness specifically, these emotions are overwhelming and a very strong defence mechanism against some real inflicted pain, emotional or physical. BUT I think in the calm after the storm is a good time to really look and see if we are continuing thru the same old revolving door or can we step away and find a better way to be than filled with hurt, anger and hate.  Justice is a mechanical force, we don't need to force it into functioning through acting in vengeance - cause and effect means those that inflict harm will find their own level with their own kind, we do not want to discover we have a home there too.

I love a line from a movie - The Crow, where Brandon Lee says "Victims, aren't we all".  We feel pain and suffer so to be heard and to protect ourselves we inflict pain and suffering.  Without knowing how, we come to a place where we hit before we can be hit, reject before we can be rejected, insult before we can be insulted - so many live just like this for too much of their lives, it's very sad.

Edited by libstaK, 01 October 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[Chooky88]

Well I believe in revenge. Revenge is real.. It exists. I've seen it and I know it's real. For the record I believe that hell is where God isn't. It's what atheists believe. If you die you just die and there is no afterlife. It's what I think hell is. But I could be wrong. There is only one way to find out and I intend to wait as long as possible for the answer.

[Karlis]

Many times on UM it has been clearly explained that "hell" is simply the grave, after physical death of the body.

Why is it so difficult for this explanation to be accepted?

[Mr Right Wing]

Chooky88, on 01 October 2012 - 01:29 PM, said:

Well I believe in revenge. Revenge is real.. It exists. I've seen it and I know it's real. For the record I believe that hell is where God isn't. It's what atheists believe. If you die you just die and there is no afterlife. It's what I think hell is. But I could be wrong. There is only one way to find out and I intend to wait as long as possible for the answer.

I also believe in revenge and have no intentions of aspiring to some greater ideal or being the better man.

If someone wrongs me I wrong them. If someone does me in I'd want the state to do them in.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 01 October 2012 - 10:27 PM.

[libstaK]

Karlis, on 01 October 2012 - 03:18 PM, said:

Many times on UM it has been clearly explained that "hell" is simply the grave, after physical death of the body.

Why is it so difficult for this explanation to be accepted?

If the world's religions could agree on that and cultivate that understanding with their membership, espousing it publically and regularly - it would go a long way I think.  The problem is that is not what is sold to the faithful in so many denominations.