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Are Jews Egyptians ?


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#61    cormac mac airt

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:31 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 05 February 2013 - 02:20 PM, said:

But you haven't read the book and so you don't know how this Salibi explains it. I wish it was online somewehere, so I wouldn't have to translate all of it from Dutch into English. Egypt is still where it always was, but there are more places with 'msrm' as a denomination.

He even has a whole chapter about the invasion of Sheshonq I (Biblical Shishaq) into Judah. Just that it didn't take place in what we know to be Judah. He locates it in Western Arabia.

.

I have read a very much related PDF that can be found here entitled "Al- Hijaz, Homeland of Abraham and the Israeli prophets An Arab's geographical map for Abraham's journey based on Arabia historical accounts".

http://www.tajdeed.o..._of_Abraham.pdf

I find it misleading, to say the least, how the writer claims that "Misr" was never known as another name for Egypt by any of its contemporary neighbors when the Ugaritic texts as well as the Assyrians and Babylonians knew and mentioned Egypt by that name. And each greatly predated the alleged timeframe for the Exodus. I see this as an Arabic attempt at revisionist history.

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#62    Abramelin

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Posted 05 February 2013 - 05:58 PM

View Postcormac mac airt, on 05 February 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

I have read a very much related PDF that can be found here entitled "Al- Hijaz, Homeland of Abraham and the Israeli prophets An Arab's geographical map for Abraham's journey based on Arabia historical accounts".

http://www.tajdeed.o..._of_Abraham.pdf

I find it misleading, to say the least, how the writer claims that "Misr" was never known as another name for Egypt by any of its contemporary neighbors when the Ugaritic texts as well as the Assyrians and Babylonians knew and mentioned Egypt by that name. And each greatly predated the alleged timeframe for the Exodus. I see this as an Arabic attempt at revisionist history.

cormac

I agree, I just read it.

And it doesn't quite follow Salibi's way of reasoning.

Btw, Salibi was

-1- pro-Israel
-2- a Christian (a protestant), not a Muslim
-3- a Lebanese, not an Arab.


#63    goodconversations

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 04:59 PM

Lebanese are not Arab?

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#64    Abramelin

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:31 PM

View Postgoodconversations, on 28 March 2013 - 04:59 PM, said:

Lebanese are not Arab?

They are not even sure about that themselves:

http://answers.yahoo...17183356AA5Uyfa

But I once asked a women, "Are you an Arab?" T o which she replied, "No, I am Lebanese."


#65    Artaxerxes

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:54 PM

I've often wondered the same thing.  - Art


#66    kmt_sesh

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:56 PM

Egyptians are the same, even though they're from the same basic ethnic stock as most others from the Middle East. Egyptians like to be called Egyptians, not Arabs.

And the same goes for Iranians, who definitely don't want to be called Arabs. They're not, actually. They're Persians, and they like to be identified as such.

Goodness, all of us modern people and our fixation with labels. :blink:

Edited by kmt_sesh, 29 March 2013 - 03:08 PM.
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#67    Eldorado

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 10:54 PM

Aye... they never had tribalism and bigotry back in the good old ancient times.  (lol)


#68    Tutankhaten-pasheri

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 09:28 AM

I would think that though the AE's depictions of foreigners is somewhat stereotypical, stereotypes are based on a general reality. AE depicted their neighbours and other foreigners as they viewed them, that is as different to Egyptians and different to each other. With exceptions such as AE as a unified state, back in those days identity was by what city you came from. You could be as hostile to a nearby city inhabited by people who had the same language and customs as yourself, as too some far off city full of genuine strangers. Probably this is still true in places.... However, I think it unlikely that any peoples would not have a concrete idea of who they were, except when we get to Hebrews who seem, to me, to be an amalgam of various tribal groups from the Levant who eventually became one unified group. But they were not Egyptians, I see no evidence of that at all, nothing, except of course for the possible faint echoes from Akhenaten. But that only as a religious idea, certainly not as evidence of Hebrews originating in Egypt.

edit to add that the contention in the video that amen is from Amenhotep is ridiculous and shows no understanding of Egyptian names or gods. Like many such videos on youtube, there is no direct provable lie, but there are very important omissions that totally distort reality. Youtube is for foamheads, er, except for my videos of course :blush:

Edited by Atentutankh-pasheri, 29 March 2013 - 09:43 AM.


#69    goodconversations

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 11:57 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 28 March 2013 - 05:31 PM, said:

They are not even sure about that themselves:

http://answers.yahoo...17183356AA5Uyfa

But I once asked a women, "Are you an Arab?" T o which she replied, "No, I am Lebanese."

Interesting. Politics Vs. Origin/Race, i guess.

[

Edited by goodconversations, 29 March 2013 - 12:29 PM.

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#70    goodconversations

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:23 PM

View Postkmt_sesh, on 28 March 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

Egyptians are the same, even though they're from the same basic ethnic stock as most others from the Middle East. Egyptians like to be called Egyptians, not Arabs.

And the same goes for Iranians, who definitely don't want to be called Arabs. They're not, actually. They're Persians, and they like to be identified as such.

Goodness, all of us modern people and are fixation with labels. :blink:

From my experience, all Egyptians take huge pride in being Egyptian and they have unconditional love for Egypt. Muslim Egyptians take equally huge pride in being Arab and in Arabism. Coptic Egyptians not so much. Recently, i hear many of them refer to themselves as the descendants of the Pharaohs or Nubian Kings.

I think all the Arab states by politics not origin are begining to dig up their roots.


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#71    Abramelin

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Posted 29 March 2013 - 12:28 PM

View Postgoodconversations, on 29 March 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Interesting. Politics Vs. Origin/Race, i guess.



Interesting. Politics Vs. Origin/Race, i guess.

I think many want see themselves as direct descendents of the Phoenicians.


#72    Tor_Hershman

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:22 PM

You folks surly make some mighty fine points.


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#73    keninsc

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 07:34 PM

The reason Jews are called "Jews", is simply because they come from Judaea. Just as Palestinians come from Palestine, or Germans come from Germany, or Americans comes from America. People are called largely by the name of the place they come from.


#74    jaylemurph

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:43 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 16 February 2014 - 07:34 PM, said:

The reason Jews are called "Jews", is simply because they come from Judaea. Just as Palestinians come from Palestine, or Germans come from Germany, or Americans comes from America. People are called largely by the name of the place they come from.

...actually, it's the other way around. Judaea is a Latin named that comes from the name of the tribe descended from Judah ("Y'hudah"), the son of Jacob. (http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none)

For that matter, we have no evidence of a Germanic group who ever called themselves German -- it was a term coined and used by Caesar to describe people in Gaul, which is now France. There's no evidence for a place called "Germany" with people called "Germans" until much, much later. And it's still not the word people used to describe themselves there.

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#75    keninsc

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Posted 16 February 2014 - 08:57 PM

:whistle:





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