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Sitchin's Folly: The Inventory Stela


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45 replies to this topic

#16    kmt_sesh

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Posted 29 November 2009 - 06:25 AM

View PostGolden Hawk, on 29 November 2009 - 04:59 AM, said:

Kmt-sesh,

I could use your help and expertise with my :rolleyes:  book on Kmt in the 15th and 16th Dynasties.  I'm having a problem with proper and given names.  Thanks.

Golden Hawk, please feel free to send me a PM about your question. I'd be glad to provide an answer, if I am able to. The subject does not pertain to the OP so it might be best to deal with this question in a private message. :)

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#17    TheSearcher

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 08:24 AM

Nice post once again Kmt, I do enjoy reading them. One other thing I just thought about, is the fact that they never can produce actual concrete evidence of their claims. Sitchin and Von Däniken have both boasted having evidence, but when asked, could not show it for various reasons, going from "it's been stolen / destroyed / a secret/ etc...", to god knows what.

To me they are just not believable, however much I would like them to be right to some degree (hey aliens are pretty cool after all), they're not.

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#18    digitalartist

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 04:33 PM

Concerning the supposed trial of Sitchin.  In doing a search at the local law library of the two largest online sources for case law, Lexis Nexis and Westlaw, I found no reference to any case 2007 or later for Sitchin, Fderally or in any state.  That combined with the supposed lawyer, Sam Wilson, making some posts in his blog in 2007 about the supposed case then suddenly stopping brings me to the conclusion that the person portraying himself/herself as Sam Wilson was just trying to stir up the pro/anti Sitchin debate.


#19    cladking

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 05:47 PM

This kind of thing really highlights the dangers of using internet sources.  ;)




















Hey, I just couldn't resist.  :)

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#20    kmt_sesh

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:22 PM

View Postdigitalartist, on 30 November 2009 - 04:33 PM, said:

Concerning the supposed trial of Sitchin.  In doing a search at the local law library of the two largest online sources for case law, Lexis Nexis and Westlaw, I found no reference to any case 2007 or later for Sitchin, Fderally or in any state.  That combined with the supposed lawyer, Sam Wilson, making some posts in his blog in 2007 about the supposed case then suddenly stopping brings me to the conclusion that the person portraying himself/herself as Sam Wilson was just trying to stir up the pro/anti Sitchin debate.

Yes, that's what I was afraid of. It's a bunch of BS. I'd heard something about this more than a year ago and just happened to stumble across that forum, so I was just hoping someone could clarify it for me. Thanks for doing that, digitalartist.

I apologize to Sitchin, if he would even care, and to everyone else for wasting our time and detracting from my own original post.

View Postcladking, on 30 November 2009 - 05:47 PM, said:

This kind of thing really highlights the dangers of using internet sources.  ;)

...

Hey, I just couldn't resist.  :)

LOL Using my own constant warning to others to chide me? Well, I deserve it. Lesson learned.

Let's forget about the trial BS and stick with the discussion of the book. It's a lot more interesting to do, anyway. I notice I'm not getting much activity in the two Sitchin threads I've initiated. I'm not sure why that is, but it's likely because I write too damn much and people are put off by my long OPs. Maybe I was hoping for too much.  :)

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#21    cormac mac airt

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Posted 30 November 2009 - 07:32 PM

Quote

I notice I'm not getting much activity in the two Sitchin threads I've initiated. I'm not sure why that is, but it's likely because I write too damn much and people are put off by my long OPs. Maybe I was hoping for too much.

Probably because Sitchin-ites don't want to hear that all the evidence is against him and he's making a bundle off the gullible. :yes:  :tu:

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#22    Qoais

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:07 AM

What edition of Stairway to Heaven are you reading Kmt?  Mine is paperback and it doesn't have 343 pages.

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#23    questionmark

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:11 AM

View PostQoais, on 01 December 2009 - 01:07 AM, said:

What edition of Stairway to Heaven are you reading Kmt?  Mine is paperback and it doesn't have 343 pages.

Let me guess...yours has 337 pages?

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#24    kmt_sesh

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:41 AM

View PostQoais, on 01 December 2009 - 01:07 AM, said:

What edition of Stairway to Heaven are you reading Kmt?  Mine is paperback and it doesn't have 343 pages.

Mine is the Harper printing of April 2007. It ends on page 411. LOL Did you get defective copy or something? An older or newer edition might be a wee bit different, but I'd say if your copy of The Stairway to Heaven has fewer than 340 pages there must be something wrong with it. Or are really old editions that much different? I think it was first published in 1980, so has Sitchin added that much material to the book? It would be odd for an author to expand an old book by that much.

Which brings me to something I must correct. I erroneously stated that the book does not have a bibliography. Somehow I missed it entirely, but in my edition it begins on page 412. I was going by the sections I had been reading, which are not properly annotated or cited for source. The bibliography at the end of the book is simply a list of publications but with no tie-in to the material in the book, so basically it's meaningless. :blink:

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#25    kmt_sesh

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 01:51 AM

View PostTheSearcher, on 30 November 2009 - 08:24 AM, said:

Nice post once again Kmt, I do enjoy reading them. One other thing I just thought about, is the fact that they never can produce actual concrete evidence of their claims. Sitchin and Von Däniken have both boasted having evidence, but when asked, could not show it for various reasons, going from "it's been stolen / destroyed / a secret/ etc...", to god knows what.

To me they are just not believable, however much I would like them to be right to some degree (hey aliens are pretty cool after all), they're not.

Thanks, TheSearcher. :)

I've been trying to drive home the same point you mentioned.  Sitchin and Von Däniken are both like some of those really bad History Channel specials we've all seen. They paint a pretty picture and draw you in and state controversial claims, then make said claims sound as though they're die-hard facts. It's all mist and vapor. As others have commented, however, and as Michael Heiser has written in his responses to Sitchin's work, they are not typically writing for a professional or well-informed audience. The agencies that publish their work are interested in profit, and not necessarily veracity.

It's easy for someone like Sitchin to spin historical facts and misquote past authors to make his ideas seem plausible. I do have to admit that he's a pretty decent writer, as far as New Age literature goes, so I can see how certain people might fall prey to his material. However, those of us who have actually studied the cultures and are knowledgeable of the history don't have to be professional historians to see how erroneous the conclusions of Sitchin, Von Däniken, West, Schoch, and the others truly are.

I just wish we could reach the gullible who fall victim to their nonsense! :yes:

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#26    Qoais

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:08 AM

My book ends on page 308.  Then "Sources" starts on 309.  Index starts on 315.
In the front it says copyright 1980.

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Intuitive knowledge is knowledge beyond intellectual reasoning.

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#27    Qoais

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:34 AM

kmt - in your OP, are you copying Sitchin's translation of the Stela?  Or is that your own or someone else's translation?

Here is his translation from my copy of his book:

Live Horus Mezdau;
To King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khufu,
Life is given.
For his mother Isis, the Divine Mother,
Mistrss of "The Western Mountain of Hathor,"
  he made (this) writing on a stela.
he gave (her) a new sacred offering.
He built (her) a House (temple) of stone,
  renewed the gods that were found in her temple.

An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Intuitive knowledge is knowledge beyond intellectual reasoning.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."

#28    Qoais

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 02:49 AM

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An open-minded view of the past allows for an unprejudiced glimpse into the future.

Intuitive knowledge is knowledge beyond intellectual reasoning.

"Intellectual brilliance is no guarantee against being dead wrong."

#29    kmt_sesh

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 03:21 AM

View PostQoais, on 01 December 2009 - 02:34 AM, said:

kmt - in your OP, are you copying Sitchin's translation of the Stela?  Or is that your own or someone else's translation?

Here is his translation from my copy of his book:

Live Horus Mezdau;
To King of Upper and Lower Egypt, Khufu,
Life is given.
For his mother Isis, the Divine Mother,
Mistrss of "The Western Mountain of Hathor,"
  he made (this) writing on a stela.
he gave (her) a new sacred offering.
He built (her) a House (temple) of stone,
  renewed the gods that were found in her temple.

No, I didn't use Sitchin's copy. Mine comes from Christiane Zivie-Coche's Sphinx: History of a Monument (Cornell University Press, 2002, translation p. 85). Sitchin doesn't provide a citation for the source of his translation, so I wasn't comfortable using it. I'm not saying it's completely wrong, and I've never performed a translation of this stela myself, but without a known provenance for the translation he uses, you cannot know the veracity or reliability of the source. That's one of the problems I'm having with his book in general.

Incidentally, the translation Sitchin uses appears on page 344 in my copy of the book. This edition comes along 27 years after yours, which must be the original publication, so it does appear he's expanded the book quite significantly since it was originally released.

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#30    Swede

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Posted 01 December 2009 - 05:04 AM

kmt_sesh - Allow me to add my compliments on your contributions. Your address of the topic has been most well presented, which is likely one of the reasons that the "firestorm" has not erupted. Should counter-arguments within my realm arise, I would be more than willing to add support to your position. Carry on!





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