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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#4711    Abramelin

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:38 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 May 2011 - 04:15 AM, said:

The name Texel is Frisian, but because of historical sound-changes in Dutch, where all -x- sounds have been replaced with -s- sounds (compare for instance English Fox, Frisian Fokse, German Fuchs with Dutch Vos), the name is typically pronounced Tessel in Dutch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texel

Teksel - it's not that in the OLB so the new Frisian word appears to be Germanised while the English have the same original letter sound as the Frisians should - that would be Texel.

The Frisian language then appears to have been Germanised at some point, while the English kept the older sounds the Frisians should still speak but they 'speak fancy now'.

English is very unfancy language, the fancy words have come in from fancy languages.

X marks the spot.


Teksel (pronounced the same as Texel) is indeed not in the OLB, there it's called "Texland". Texel is like an abbreviation of Texland. In fact - even though I am Dutch - I pronounce it with a -ks- , not with -ss-.

We've discussed this before, but just as a reminder a link to a Dutch wikipage: http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texla

And you will read Thesla ("Zuidland") as one of the (older) names for Texel, and it means "South Land" (remember we talked about it in relation to Otharus' post about Tessaloniki??).


#4712    Abramelin

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 01:56 PM

Puzz: "So, I'm pretty much over this thread, it's taken up way too much of my life over the last year but I found my answers and found what I'd been looking for my whole life. I don't blame them for claiming this is a hoax at all. It challenges the status quo too much but if you have the foresight and insight the OLB hopes you have, maybe you'll eventually see this book tells a true story."

The fact that this thread takes up a lot of time is mainly because either those pro and contra the OLB have not come up with a definate proof with which to convince the other side.

But, sorry to say, someone once said (Mark Twain??) : "A conclusion comes after people got tooo tired thinking".

OK Puzz, thanks for participating, but I'm not near done yet, heh.


#4713    The Puzzler

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 02:58 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 May 2011 - 01:56 PM, said:

Puzz: "So, I'm pretty much over this thread, it's taken up way too much of my life over the last year but I found my answers and found what I'd been looking for my whole life. I don't blame them for claiming this is a hoax at all. It challenges the status quo too much but if you have the foresight and insight the OLB hopes you have, maybe you'll eventually see this book tells a true story."

The fact that this thread takes up a lot of time is mainly because either those pro and contra the OLB have not come up with a definate proof with which to convince the other side.

But, sorry to say, someone once said (Mark Twain??) : "A conclusion comes after people got tooo tired thinking".

OK Puzz, thanks for participating, but I'm not near done yet, heh.
I didn't say I was done, I said I was over this thread.

There is no definite proof, you won't find what you are looking for, but I have, in my heart and I don't need to continue any longer with trying to convince you of it.

:tu:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4714    Abramelin

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 04:42 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 May 2011 - 02:58 PM, said:

I didn't say I was done, I said I was over this thread.

There is no definite proof, you won't find what you are looking for, but I have, in my heart and I don't need to continue any longer with trying to convince you of it.

:tu:

OK, over but not done.

LOL, so you were busy all this time trying to convince ME??

There sure as hell can be definite 100% proof, both on the positive side as well as on the negative side, and we have mentioned what that could be.


#4715    Otharus

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 05:28 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 07 May 2011 - 04:15 AM, said:

The name Texel is Frisian, but because of historical sound-changes in Dutch, where all -x- sounds have been replaced with -s- sounds (compare for instance English Fox, Frisian Fokse, German Fuchs with Dutch Vos), the name is typically pronounced Tessel in Dutch
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texel

...

X marks the spot.
"SEX" in the OLB

Appy-polly-logies Abe, but inspired by Puzzler's "FOX/VOS" post, the othistic child in me wants to play with words once more.

Earlier I did a language exercise with the symbolic numbers TWELVE and THREE. Now it's time for the one 'in-between', SIX.

As usual (unless explicitly stated), I give a complete list of the fragments with the examined word. I do this, so the word can be studied in the right context. (This time, the meaning could not be more obvious.)

As Abe has pointed out several times:
IF the OLB is authentic, a significant part of what we think we know of history and languages will have to be revised.

With posting my language studies, I thought two steps further:
1. When more people learn to read this language, more people will come to the conclusion that OLB is more than just a hoax.
2. WHEN the OLB will be accepted to be authentic, many people will want to learn to read the language.

My exercises were a good way for me to study the text on a deeper level, and by posting them I hoped to invite others to have a better look at the language too, to see the beauty of it, and to notice how the translations, (specially the English,) sometimes beg for improvement.

I don't agree with Abe that the only valid proof for OLB's authenticity has to be phisical (archaeological or other documents in the same script).

Language is an expression of consciousness. Consciousness has evolved through te ages and left traces in different cultures and traditions. They have overlaps and parallels. Like a puzzle it can be reconstructed though, and time will prove this.

Since the completely worthless publication by Beckering Vinkers (1876), who "aimed at ridiculing the OLB", not one single serious linguist (as far as I know) has ever published about the OLB language. I am confident that this will change some day.

Lucky he or she will be who takes this challenge.

... And now back to the number 6.

The word "six" in some other European languages
Seis ~ Portuguese, Spanish
Sei ~ Italian
Six ~ French
Sechs ~ German
Zes ~ Dutch
Ses - Afrikaans
Seks ~ Danish, Norwegian
Sex ~ Swedish, Icelandic
sześć ~ Polish
έξι (exi) ~ Greek

The following seven fragments were found with the word "six" in the OLB.

Original page number and line: [.../..].
Page number in Ottema and Sandbach translation: [O+S p...].

1. [00a/21] Hidde's note (1256 AD)
THAT TVELF.HVNDRED.SEX ÀND FIFTIGOSTE JÉR
[O+S p.003]
het twaalf honderd zes en vijftigste jaar
the year 1256
[litt. "the twelve-hundred-six and fiftieth year"]


2. [090/27] Apol-lanja (ca. 590 BC)
FON MÀMIS SÍDE WÉRE MIN BROTHER THENE SEXTE
[O+S p.127]
Van moeders zijde was mijn broeder de zesde
From mother's side my brother was the sixth

3. [106/14] Apol-lanja (ca. 590 BC)
THJU TORE HETH SEX SÍDA
[O+S p.147]
De toren heeft zes zijden
The tower has six sides

4. [128/12] Ljud-gert's daybook (ca. 325 BC)
ÀFTER SEX DÉGUM SÁGON WI
THA ORLOCH.FLÁTE FON DEMÉTRIUS. VP VS TO KVMA

[O+S p.175]
Na zes dagen zagen wij
de oorlogsvloot van Demetrius op ons toekomen
[After] Six days later we saw
the war-fleet of Demetrius coming down upon us


5. [129/11] Ljud-gert's daybook (ca. 325 BC)
MEN FRISO N.ANDERE NAVT BIFÁRA THA EROSTE PIL
DEL FALDE A SEX FADEMA FON SIN SKIP

[O+S p.177]
Friso beantwoordde dat niet voor dat de eerste pijl
op zes vademen van zijn schip neer viel
but Friso did not reply [answer] till the first arrow
fell [down] six fathoms from his ship


6. [201/28] about black Adel (anonymous, ca. 50 BC)
THÁ.ER TO BEK KÉM BROCHT.I TOMET SEX.HVNDRED
THÉRA STORESTE KNÁPUM
FON THAT SKOTSE BERCH.FOLK MITH

[O+S p.243]
Toen hij terug kwam bracht hij bijna zeshonderd
der grootste knapen
van het Schotsche [ * ] bergvolk mede
When he returned [came back] he brought nearly six hundred
of the finest [largest] youths [lads?]
of the Scotch [ * ] mountaineers [-people] with him

[ * note: SKOTS also means skew]

7. [207/28] about black Adel (anonymous, ca. 50 BC)
FON THA MÀNNISKA
THÉR VPPA THA VRLANDISKA SKÉPUM STALT WÉRON
WÉRON SEX THRVCH BUK.PIN FELTH

[O+S p.249]
Van de menschen,
die op de buitenlandsche schepen gesteld waren,
werden zes door buikpijn gedood
Of those [the people]
who were placed in [upon] the foreign [litt. "overlandic"] ships
six died of colic [or: "were killed through stomach-pain"]



#4716    Abramelin

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Posted 07 May 2011 - 06:19 PM

Hah, you must have had a good start of the weekend !!

Btw, Frisian /OLB language is Germanic, so you could have said that the OLB "SEX" is the same as the German "SECHS", meaning "SIX" (or "ZES" in Dutch, so Puzz will know for sure the Dutch hate the -X/KS- lol).

Now you tell me Otharus: when will people visiting this thread - assuming they are still on the fence about it - be convinced that the OLB is not a hoax/forgery/fantasy/whatever??

Must be me, but I think that as soon as we find - here I go again - the remnants of a citadel as described in the OLB, or another example, anywhere, of the OLB script (manuscripts, inscriptions), and dated to many centuries before present, that then they will be a lot more convinced of the OLB being a true ancient account of European history.

==

Another thing, and I do know you don't have easy/much access to the internet: can you tell a bit more about that Dunkirk Transgression of around 300 BC I talked about a few pages back?? The pdf I posted for Alewyn is all the serious and scientific info I could find about it.


#4717    Otharus

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:27 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 07 May 2011 - 06:19 PM, said:

Now you tell me Otharus: when will people visiting this thread - assuming they are still on the fence about it - be convinced that the OLB is not a hoax/forgery/fantasy/whatever??

Must be me, but I think that as soon as we find - here I go again - the remnants of a citadel as described in the OLB, or another example, anywhere, of the OLB script (manuscripts, inscriptions), and dated to many centuries before present, that then they will be a lot more convinced of the OLB being a true ancient account of European history.
Of course evidence of the physical kind would be the most easy way.
It's just NOT the ONLY possible way, that's what I say.

If I remember correctly from the history of philosophy, it was in the time of Descartes that the sciences split into physical/ material and metaphysical, the latter becoming the domain mostly of the church.

(Our main sciences still mostly have a materialistic approach. One can see that most easily in medical science where even psychosomatic and psychiatric 'dis-eases' are approached on a physical level, so drugs can be prescribed and telling the patient that the cause is genetic or otherwise material, rather than social or emotional, which is, again, more difficult to understand and deal with.)

Now we're touching yet another angle, namely philosophy, and I'm not specialized in that either. Just wanted to point out that the solution to a problem does not always have to be in the 'material world'. Language, culture, consciousness, things that are hidden in our (collective) consciousness can be valid too, they just are more complex and need more abstract thinking.

I don't know if I express myself clearly, I just woke up, it's almost 7 am.
Anyway, maybe someone who is more into philosophy can shine some light on this.

Quote

Another thing, and I do know you don't have easy/much access to the internet: can you tell a bit more about that Dunkirk Transgression of around 300 BC I talked about a few pages back?? The pdf I posted for Alewyn is all the serious and scientific info I could find about it.
It's surely an interesting one, but I will probably not be very active here in the next few weeks, as I'm preparing to go travel again, to arrive back home by the end of this month.


#4718    Knul

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 05:09 AM

After having read your discussions on the Oera Linda Boek, I found it useful to register as a member myself, so that you may put questions and comments directly to the author of the website (www.rodinbook.nl). Let me clarify my position with regard to the authorship of the Oera Linda Boek. If one reads the letters between Cornelis over de Linden and Eelco Verwijs as published in Het Geheimzinnige Handschrift van de Familie Over de Linden, one cannot find any reference to Francois Haverschmidt at all. This is strange, when one assumpts that he was the initiator and leader of a complot. Haverschmidt himself denied this role and stated, that he did not know Cornelis over de Linden. Cornelis over de Linden possessed two books, the Oera Linda Boek and Worp van Thabor. Only after Eelco Verwijs told him, that the Oera Linda Boek was a family chronicle, Cornelis over de Linden got interested in the matter, but he could not understand the text. Eelco Verwijs was not interested in the family chronicle, but in the Worp van Thabor as it appeared to be a more complete copy than existing copies. Cornelis over de Linden promised him the Worp van Thabor, when Verwijs would make a translation of the family chronicle. Verwijs had serious doubts about the family chronicle, but he could not tell Cornelis over de Linden as this would mean, that he would not get the Worp van Thabor in hand. Moreover Verwijs was afraid, that someone joked him with the family chronicle. The letters make clear, that nor Cornelis over de Linden nor Verwijs could have written the Oera Linda Boek. As far as I know, no one has investigated the matter of the two manuscripts. Both manuscripts were in the possession of the bookstore of the Over de Lindens in Enkhuizen. Probably there have been problems about an inheritance between the families, so that Cornelis over the Linden came to collect his share. A grandson calls it 'stolen'. It is not clear, how and when the bookstore of Enkhuizen obtained the two manuscripts. I only suppose, that they came from the same source and that Stadermann (friend and colleague of Cornelis over de Linden) played a role in it. By the way, the Worp van Thabor is now lost. The identification of Joast Hiddes Halbertsma and his brother Eeltsje as author(s) of the Oera Linda Boek was the result of a cold case study, in which a 'criminal profile', derived from the text, has been matched with publications of (mainly) Ds. Joast Halbertsma. For me is the use of Old-English names for the months in the Oera Linda Boek the most convincing, as Joast Halbertsma made a study on the relationship between Old-Frisian and Old-English, but the same could in fact been said about the use of words from the Old-Amsterdam dialect in the Oera Linda Boek. I have not yet retrieved the famous word 'foddik', which clearly belongs to it. I found - only afterwards - my own observations confirmed by Mr. G.J. van der Mey, who identified Joast Halbertsma as the author.


#4719    Abramelin

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 06:21 AM

Hi Menno, I am really glad you finally registered here.

And a very good first post too, btw.

But I have a question: can you show us an online source of the Amsterdam dialect??

It's about "Foddik"

You said on your website that Halbertsma got that word from the time he lived there, in Amsterdam.

But I have searched and searched, but found nada.

(Btw, people love 'alineas'. Don't post "Tante Betje" style, lol.)

.

Edited by Abramelin, 08 May 2011 - 06:27 AM.


#4720    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 06:45 AM

I'll add my 2c worth then on sex without getting too bogged down.

The scale of a sextant has a length of 1/6 turn (60°); hence the sextant's name (sextāns, -antis is the Latin word for "one sixth", "εξάντας" in Greek). An octant is a similar device with a shorter scale (⅛ turn, or 45°), whereas a quintant (1/5 turn, or 72°) and a quadrant (¼ turn, or 90°) have longer scales.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sextant


I think it's named because of the word SEX as six and TANT as 'as much' ie; tant/amount. Anglo-French = in from Norse and Anglo areas.

tantamount
1640s, from verbal phrase tant amount "be equivalent" (1620s), from Anglo-Fr. tant amunter "amount to as much" (late 13c.), from O.Fr. tant "as much" (from L. tantus, from tam "so") + amonter "amount to, go up" (see amount).

http://www.etymonlin...term=tantamount

Tantus is a sex toy company believe it or not. Tantric sex..extended.

Tantra (Sanskrit: तन्त्र , Oriya: ତନ୍ତ୍ର"loom, warp"; hence "principle, system, doctrine", from the two root words tanoti "stretch, extend", and trayati "liberation"), anglicised tantricism or tantrism or tantram, refers to esoteric schools of Hinduism and Buddhism and to the scriptures (called "Tantras") commonly identified with the worship of Shakti.[1] Tantra deals primarily with spiritual practices and ritual forms of worship that aim at liberation from ignorance and rebirth,[1] the universe being regarded as the divine play of Shakti and Shiva.[1] In "left-handed" Tantra (Vamachara), ritual sexual intercourse is employed as a way of entering into the underlying processes and structure of the universe.

Tantalis - tant + alus (Estonian) = amount to + bottom/under - always under, which he is, under Mt Etna or wherever.
I've said before that Atlantis is an anagram of Tantalis.

I'll just pop in too that Troy was liberated or purified by being burned - trayati.

six - amount to

amount to a sixth.

SEX in the word, lets us know this word in sextant is actually six and the only people saying SEX for SIX are Icelandic and Finnic.

The Finnish have the myths and Icelandic ones too, they are the myths of the Norse.



Now six to sex.

Let's talk about sex, (baby).

The word Sex imo humble opinion comes from the angle our legs make in this act - the spread of the legs is the sextant amount.

^

EXtension - the amount one can extend.

666 is also ^^^ on your keyboard, look.

That evil sex.  :devil:

Edited by The Puzzler, 08 May 2011 - 07:20 AM.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4721    Otharus

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 07:42 AM

Welcome Menno,

and thank you for your post, as well as all the work you did, making sources available (I recently read the letters you added to your site, which was very helpful).

I have thought of writing you to discuss your theory, but this is much better. I hope Goffe Jensma will feel challenged some day to join too.

One thing to start with, something interesting I just found out.

View PostKnul, on 08 May 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

I have not yet retrieved the famous word 'foddik', which clearly belongs to it.

Greek:

φωτιά - fire, light

http://el.wikipedia....wiki/Φωτιά

Edited by Otharus, 08 May 2011 - 07:44 AM.


#4722    Otharus

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 08:34 AM

View PostKnul, on 08 May 2011 - 05:09 AM, said:

The letters make clear, that nor Cornelis over de Linden nor Verwijs could have written the Oera Linda Boek.
I agree to this.

Quote

Both manuscripts were in the possession of the bookstore of the Over de Lindens in Enkhuizen. Probably there have been problems about an inheritance between the families, so that Cornelis over the Linden came to collect his share. A grandson calls it 'stolen'.
On your website I read that this grandson was Hein Kofman. Can you tell us more about it?

I have never read anywhere that the two manuscripts have been in the possession of any Over de Linden bookstore. Can you give your source for this too?


#4723    The Puzzler

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 09:25 AM

Hi Knul,
Nice to have you join us here!

:tu:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#4724    Otharus

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 12:47 PM

View PostThe Puzzler, on 08 May 2011 - 06:45 AM, said:

...the only people saying SEX for SIX are Icelandic and Finnic.
That should read "Swedish".

The Fins say "kuusi".

:)


#4725    Abramelin

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Posted 08 May 2011 - 01:13 PM

Lol, I didn't post it before, but you know what the Finnish word for "The Netherlands" is?

Alankomaat.

It's nothing but a Finnish word for "Low lands", but of course I had to think of those damn Alans again, lol.