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#76    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 04:30 PM

View PostSeeker79, on 16 December 2012 - 04:06 AM, said:

I want to open a discussion about the violence against children at school in America. it is promted with recent events but it's not just one event it's many.

I propose

1) We identify autistic spectrum, sensitive, and vulnerable kids early on and give them incredible support against bullying and self esteem issues.

2) we stop sensationalizing these incidents. No media coverage, no talk shows, movies, or books. The name of the perpetrator should never be mentioned, and his life should never be scrutinized.

3) We need to end the production of "games" that glorify violence. Grand theft auto...... Really?. The majority of these crimes are committed by young people between the ages of 16--26, most of them were heavy into video games. I'm not against gameing totally, but these games are incredibly rediculouse and fuel violant fantasies while isolating the child from interaction with others. Not to mention there are child psychologists and formulas designed to addict young people.

4) I deplore gun control. I feel everyone should have a right to own own them. But, I would not mind makeing gun ownership a long and tedious process. Im workIng on my concealed weapons permit, and after Friday my wife will be joining me. There is a lengthy course and several interviews. I will never vote for anything limiting citizens to own guns, but I would vote for an elevated level of awareness and training. It should be an honer and hard won prize to be an owner of dangerous weapons. Sure criminals will just get them illegally. I understand that. It would be up to the citizen to take the process seriously and do it if they take self defense with weapons seriously.

5) It should be a felony if Somone who has not gone through the above sugestion has access to your weapons and comits a crime.

just some suggestions. My number 2 suggestion is the most important one. The media should not be able to sensationalize this. I don't know how to do that without censorship which is a slippery slope, but the media could come together and all agree, law enforcement could take vows of silence and teach survivors why they must be quite..... I don't know. But make no mistake, these incidents have become a sick fad.

What do you think?

A personality disorder is caused by a person not being able to regulate their emotions.

If parents are abusive to their child, criticise it, put it down and belittle it then the kid will develop an inferiority complex. Feeling inferior is not a nice thing and the kid obsesses over it. Unable to move past it they go through life feeling inferior which causes strange behaviour in them -
1. Performance - They are often top performers in academic circles and in business. As they cant regulate away feeling inferior they attempt to be the best at everything instead to avoid the emotion. Hence this is what drives them to be top performers.
2. Avoidance - If they cant be the best they avoid anything that makes them feel inferior. An example is a kid who wont run a race unless it knows it will come first.
3. Destruction - Another technique for avoiding feeling inferior is to destroy those who make them feel inferior. They will target people who are more intelligent, better looking, more atheletic, more popular, richer and anyone else they cant out-do.

Shooting - A mental breakdown has occured where the person is forced to confront believing they are inferior. Unable to regualte it away and unable to deal with it using the above three they flip. Child abuse comes in many forms and its only in recent times that the issues of psychological abuse has been raised to the surface.

Its easy to spot but the teachers would need to be trained to do so.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 19 December 2012 - 04:38 PM.


#77    White Crane Feather

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Posted 19 December 2012 - 06:51 PM

View Postme-wonders, on 19 December 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:



Doctors who were interviewed because of their experience in a trauma unit in a city hospital, are recommending we change the ammunition.  A regular bullet that just pierces its target does not do the damage of bullets built to explode within the target.  So they suggested we can go with the gun laws we have, but get the exploding bullets off the market.   I think this is easily do able.
I think that is reasonable. But you have to understand the logic behind fragmenting bullets. A fragmented bullet may seem harder to deal with for a doctor because of the multiple tiny peaices. But the fact of it Is that it keeps the injured party alive for a while. A solid mass penetrates and kills Dam near instantly. The bullets are designed to fragment because of you shoot your enemy and he is dead, you only take one man out of the fight, but if you shoot him and he is still alive, two of his buddies will work to save and stabilize him effectively takeing three men out of the fight. This is why the .223 round is fairly small and fragments. From a doctors perspective the fragmentation is god aweful, but in truth it allowed the injured party to live to get to the hospital in the first place.

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#78    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:07 AM

View PostKazahel, on 18 December 2012 - 02:33 AM, said:

I see you're in New Zealand. Do you guys actually have R rated games over there? In Australia we dont have the R rated game classification yet I dont think. I think they were bringing it in but I'm not sure when. Anyway so our games the highest ratings I think for now are MA15+. Which means..



So I'm online quite a lot and have been in the gaming community for many years. And I often hear people abusing the younger players simply for speaking. If a younger sounding kid speaks over the mic they are usually told to "shut up *********  stupid little kid, your voice is too annoying!" or something along those lines. They are then questioned and abused on why they are playing and told they should not be allowed to. They say the game is for 15+ without understanding about the supervision line. So for all they know they have a dad like me watching them...

So in the games I've been playing(the more popular ones) the younger kids generally do nothing wrong and are actually quite polite, when they speak its usually simple things like "where are you?". They are not really at that age to be a smartass(to think they are big tough guys). It's the older kids/teenagers (guessing 15-20yrs)that are the problem in regards to screaming down the mics with all sorts of language and being abusive. The older kids are the role models which the younger kids want to be one day... So if you hear a younger player being abusive and screaming down the mic they are basically trying to act like the teenagers(they want to be 'cool' like the older kids.

So if you actually want to stop any younger kids from mouthing off you gotta lead by example.

An I do, I am polite. It is with my experience that younger are just as abusive, But i do agree that they are also easy victim of comments like "grow some balls", "are you sure your not a girl" etc.

I did not know that your games are not R rated. Therefore I correct my answer in saying Government or who ever set these rules, need to place R rated on games containing any sort of sexual, or violent games. But I am also standing by my statement saying that parents shouldnt let their kids play these games.

But this will still come down to the parents after that.

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#79    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:15 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 December 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'm 33. I grew up with games just like you. Albeit it was new when I was growing up. I was addicted once aswell. I got stuck on starcraft and diablo when I was in college. My grades started to suffer, I wasn't training for my competitions as much etc etc. sitting beside my fiancé's hospital bed when, i was about 21 in the intensive care unit after a devistating car accident, I popped open my lap top for another round of diablo. At some point i looked over at her swolen face and near solid purple body and how much useless time had been spent on these games flashes before my eyes. I uninstalled my games and broke the CDs and did not look back.

Fastforward five years. I have successfully started my business. I own a house at 26, my wife ( same woman) is pregnant. I buy an Xbox. I have a good time playing ghost recon, call of duty, evenchually halo. There really isnt any problem.... It's fun. My mind is more stable, I have my priorities straight, I can turn the dam thing off and not pine for it. But, yet I am disturbed by the children I am playing against online. they are insanely vulgar and violent. I think I mentioned a line that sticks with me on this thread somewhere. After a two week binge of ghost recon, I realize all the time wasted on this junk is useless. I packed up the Xbox and buy a guitar and change my free time to more .... Enlightening and educational persuits. admitadly I would occasionally pop out halo or starwars. I'm a big fan of he sniper. But I always got acused of being something called a "camper".

Fast forward 5-7 years. I have got kids of my own. Have have been working with kids since I was a kid. I'm starting to see a very large number of teenage boys being increasingly addicted to this stuff. The games are awesome... No doubt. The over all level of coordination has drastically decreased, I teach martial arts I meet. We children and teens all the time. There are autistic and aspergers kids everywhere, ADD, bipolar disorders.

I ran into one of my families that I used to teach. The boy was an incredible gymnest with olympic dreams. I was talking with them in a resturante just as they were leaving. He was fidgeting and makeing these odd noises like some sort of addict. I kind of looked at the parents and asked if he was alright. She said oh.... He just wants to be at home playing Warcraft.  That's just on incident in many.

When the kids come in, I can tell this flat distant look on their face is from gameing. I call them out on it all the time. Parents drop their kids off with iPads to play games while they wait for their siblings to get out of class. The little eyes b eat intensely back and forth, and you cannot even get their attention. I have popped open the Xbox a few times with my kids, but quickly put it away because afterwords they beg and plead for me to get it out. They also beg and plead to use the spare iPhone for games.

Kids literally quit sports and other healthy activities to play more minecraft. Some say parents fault..... Yes. But for some parents and apathetic kid who dosnt want to do anything but play games is tuff to get motivated for something. When we look back at this years from now we will see that these addictions were nearly as unhealthy as others. There are geniuses behind these games competing for the attention of our children. And they get more sophisticated every year. Amazingly so.

Preteens and teenage boys enter a phase of their life called "the quest phase" this is a time in their life when, that they hyper fixate on their intrests. They become amazingly skilled at their chosen endevours. The sky is the limit ... music, athletics, technology,  academics... You name it. I have been raising leaders my entire career. I see it day in and day out. The kids that waste their quest phase on games, have a difficult time with emotional intelligence, do not comit themselves to hardly anything, and in general do not rise to their potential. The kids, that by virtue of themselves or their parents that were more active in other persuits are 10 times better off. The scary thing is is that boys like this are becoming more and more rare. My entire staff consist mostly of young women. One boy. And he has purposely avoided being stuck on games, has his own band, is a tinkerer, and is now on my paid staff because he is reliable and thoughtful. All my other hopefuls cannot get off the games. They huddle in groups discussing how they are going to do his and that on the latest gameing craze.

I have a feeling science will evenchually reveal how damaging alloweing PhDs in child psychology that work for gameing company's access to our young minds really Is.

Being 18, I don't expect you to understand this, but I think you showed great wisdom is suggesting Somone from outside of something dosnt really understand it. I'm no fuddy dudey yet, but I'm old enough to have peespectives that you may not be aware of yet. Its good to look at a aubject from outside the box to. This gives you aperspective of actual benefits and dangers. I have explored this through out my life. I am very concerned. I think allowing our youth to fixate on games in the end will turn out to be very damgeing. I look at all the boys that have grown to be successful I college and beyond. The ones that stick out and attend peppersine, MIT, and other great schools. Where never big time gamers. The ones that were.... Well couldnt tell you.... They dont stick things out very well. And yes most of it was because of careful parental control. Still I think somehow we are doing the kids who's parents are unaware a disservice by not speaking up.

Sorry for the jumbled sentences typing fast on the iPhone does that. I don't really have time to edit.

I agree on the above, but I beleive thats a different topic all together, I hate games for turning us into couch potatoes, slaves, zombies, addicts. But the OP was about gaming and violence, this is what I disagree on.

But games in general are making kids fat, edcuatiion disruptions, and intoreruant.

Kind Regards,
Me :)

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#80    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 01:16 AM

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting


I am going to say this is the most accurate look into what happened inside that school we will ever get. It is haunting.

From a 2nd Amendment point of view if The principle or the other staff member that had originally confronted jhim at the entrance had a cwp and was able to have it inside the "no gun zone" of there school. This tragedy very well could look alot a different and be a huge stamp of approval of the cwp in schools topic.


#81    The Id3al Experience

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 03:42 AM

Off topic, but on topic about video games.

http://www.telegraph...telligence.html

this is about intelligence, and at the bottom there, it says people that play video games do score higher in a over all performance in there intelligence.

"Writing in the neuron hournal, the reasearxchers also observed that reguarly playing 'brain training' games appeared to have no effect on peoples overall performace.

but people who reguarly played computer games scored significantly higher in reasoning, and short-term memory tests"

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#82    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:17 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 20 December 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

An I do, I am polite. It is with my experience that younger are just as abusive, But i do agree that they are also easy victim of comments like "grow some balls", "are you sure your not a girl" etc.

I did not know that your games are not R rated. Therefore I correct my answer in saying Government or who ever set these rules, need to place R rated on games containing any sort of sexual, or violent games. But I am also standing by my statement saying that parents shouldnt let their kids play these games.

But this will still come down to the parents after that.

More important than parents is culture.  Social pressure has a greater force of developing children than parents.  We as a culture, we need to make some decisions about what is acceptable is what is not.  When schools transmit the culture and teach for good moral judgement, liberty is possible.  When schools do not do this, there is anarchy and because anarchy is not tolerable, this swings to a police state.

I am sure Obama means well when he assures us, he has a committee working on the problem of violence, and that something will be done, but this is how a nation moves from liberty to anarchy to tyranny,  We better be careful and give some thought to why we educate our children and who has the real power to influence our young and society as a whole.  I repeat, it is law abiding adults making the media and products that have a bad effect on children.  If we try to resolve our social problems with laws instead of education, we will destroy our liberty.


#83    Kazahel

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:33 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 20 December 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

Off topic, but on topic about video games.

http://www.telegraph...telligence.html

this is about intelligence, and at the bottom there, it says people that play video games do score higher in a over all performance in there intelligence.

"Writing in the neuron hournal, the reasearxchers also observed that reguarly playing 'brain training' games appeared to have no effect on peoples overall performace.

but people who reguarly played computer games scored significantly higher in reasoning, and short-term memory tests"

Nice timing thanks. I was half way through a post to touch on this but I had something come up, so to come back and find this now is nice timing.

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 20 December 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

But I am also standing by my statement saying that parents shouldnt let their kids play these games.
*
But this will still come down to the parents after that.

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 20 December 2012 - 01:15 AM, said:

But games in general are making kids fat, edcuatiion disruptions, and intoreruant.

Kind Regards,
Me :)

I agree with some of that, thats why the parents have to make an effort with their kids who do play for long hours. Be with them when they play and make them get out and about and do other things.

I play online games and co-op games with my son all the time. We use it as a way to conenct and to just have fun together. It's hard at this age now because I cant really connect and play in other ways as much. So I cant really go down to the skate park and hang out because I'm older and its not really considered socially acceptable. When I do, I sit in the car and listen to the radio. So I'm limited. And I'm guessing as he gets older gaming will still be a great way to have fun together without him feeling embarrassed by having his dad around. He's not at this age yet but I know it will probably come when he's a teenager. With any luck he wont care.

Learning is also a major thing I have thought games are good for. I got my son into games when he was very young. He started when he was about 3 I think. I always allowed him to play the games for older kids because I looked at it as teaching him more advanced things. I was always with him when he plays them and still am. Anyway he would have to read and understand the 'big words' inorder to play the game and I would teach him during the gaming. So reading was a large part of it. I also made a rule that whenever I bought a game he would read the instructions on the way home. He would read them out to me in the car when he was still in preschool(kindergarten and maybe even before that). So he would read quite advanced things considering his age.

I realised this was becoming very benifical when I took him to the games store and instead of him picking up the games to look at, he would pick up the strategy guides for the games and read them in the store. I had other parents notice this and give looks of amazement because he was so young(preschool) and all the other/older kids were just really looking at the pictures on the back of the games pretty much. So my sons reading advanced a lot I believe because I used the enticement of the games as a tool to teach with. I also used music in the same way when he was under 3yrs old. I would buy a cd and teach him the song names and he would be my dj and hold the portable cd player I had in my car. So he would sit in the back in the child/baby seat holding my cd player and put the song on I asked for etc. He loved that thing. So he learned numbers, words and music and I had many scratched cd's. hehe But I didnt care.

Annnnyway my son has always been very advanced in his reading and very good in all the other subjects(not so much art/drawing though). When he was in preschool the teacher said he was reading at a year 6 level I think she said and that she had never seen anything quite like it. He was later chosen to go into an advanced/gifted program when he was in year three I think it was and now has only just been accepted(he passed their test)to go into better fulltime gifted school/program. So next year he is going to another school which runs this program(there are only two in my state). I think its something like only the top 2% or something that get in. And next year he will sit the test that I think takes the top 1%(I think it is)inorder to get into a great high school. So my fingers crossed. I dont put pressure on him and if he passes he passes, if he doesnt he doesnt. What will be will be.

And my kid is a gamer and has always been a gamer. He also has other interests of course like most kids but gaming is his favorite past time. And I believe it taught him more than just gaming reflexes but only because I, as a parent used it as a tool to teach with.


#84    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:47 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting


I am going to say this is the most accurate look into what happened inside that school we will ever get. It is haunting.

From a 2nd Amendment point of view if The principle or the other staff member that had originally confronted jhim at the entrance had a cwp and was able to have it inside the "no gun zone" of there school. This tragedy very well could look alot a different and be a huge stamp of approval of the cwp in schools topic.

I was curious about how he got into the school.  Now we know, school doors and locks need to be able to withstand bullets.  This is mind blowing to me.

I grew up in LA California with open campuses.  Doors were not locked.  There were no barriers to entering a school.  Teachers were afraid of students carrying weapons at Bancroft jr. high, but I never saw a problem, and thought the school staff was just weird, and way too much concerned about violence.  Compton High was not a pleasant place, and I know the teachers were afraid of students and did not have good control over their classrooms.  Still campuses were open and doors were not locked.  It seems the worse weapons were razor blades and knives.  We sure were not worried about someone coming in with automatic weapons.


#85    me-wonders

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 04:53 AM

View PostSeeker79, on 18 December 2012 - 07:35 PM, said:

I am aware of this wolverine thanks it's true. I struggle with the knowledge that when they get away from me being older they will over indulge and my actions will have the opposite affect.

At the moment, I counter it by makeing trips to these large arcades. It's a family event and I spare no expense when we are there. But you are right as the get older, I may have to intelligently reevaluate my stratagy. I think it is important to have other "quests" available.

Culture has more influence than parents.  

Time for Nova on PBS.  See you all in the morning.

Edited by me-wonders, 20 December 2012 - 04:54 AM.


#86    AsteroidX

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:01 AM

I would hope that principle is added to this list and her students and coworkers are added as notes. If she had  CWP and knew how to use it this would be a different story with a likely different ending. But she did all she could with the tools this puppet regime allowed her to have.

http://en.wikipedia...._Medal_of_Honor

Edited by AsteroidX, 20 December 2012 - 05:05 AM.


#87    ciriuslea

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:27 AM

I think we have to accept that people are violent full stop, it doesn't take much to turn a law abiding MOPublic into a killer.but IMO trying to keep it out of anywhere is as absurd as trying to eradicate it from society, you can only make it as hard as humanly possibly for violent people to enter schools with intents on shooting everyone

I understand this new shooting in Newtown, Lanza forced his way in so every possible measure was taken ...what will happen is they will move onto a mall or another place that has  lots of people...a church on Sunday....a sports crowds....or even a large store when its no longer possible to enter schools that seem to get most of the attention....I can understand a kid who's been bullied going back and getting revenge by shooting up the school he associates with hate..but is this the case in Newtown ?

Edited by ciriuslea, 20 December 2012 - 05:39 AM.


#88    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:45 AM

View PostThe Id3al Experience, on 20 December 2012 - 03:42 AM, said:

Off topic, but on topic about video games.

http://www.telegraph...telligence.html

this is about intelligence, and at the bottom there, it says people that play video games do score higher in a over all performance in there intelligence.

"Writing in the neuron hournal, the reasearxchers also observed that reguarly playing 'brain training' games appeared to have no effect on peoples overall performace.

but people who reguarly played computer games scored significantly higher in reasoning, and short-term memory tests"
Makes sense. So let's make games to chop up hookers and shoot police because it might stimulate your brain.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#89    White Crane Feather

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 05:55 AM

View PostAsteroidX, on 20 December 2012 - 01:16 AM, said:

http://en.wikipedia....School_shooting


I am going to say this is the most accurate look into what happened inside that school we will ever get. It is haunting.

From a 2nd Amendment point of view if The principle or the other staff member that had originally confronted jhim at the entrance had a cwp and was able to have it inside the "no gun zone" of there school. This tragedy very well could look alot a different and be a huge stamp of approval of the cwp in schools topic.
This is the most imeadiatly and sensible and effective action. We can argue all we want about gun laws, mental health, and violent video games, but what will save lives right now the next time this happens is boots on the floor and armed and trained principals and staff members. We protect our money with armed guards, we gps our dogs, yet when it comes to our most treasured possessions, our children, we herd them together with ZERO protection. It's absurd. Even the local bar has better security, but for our kids.... Nothing. We teach them to huddle in a corner or under desks while these monsters systematically execute them, with no help comeing accept for the police that will always be there to late.

"I wish neither to possess, Nor to be possessed. I no longer covet paradise, more important, I no longer fear hell. The medicine for my suffering I had within me from the very beginning, but I did not take it. My ailment came from within myself, But I did not observe it until this moment. Now I see that I will never find the light.  Unless, like the candle, I am my own fuel, Consuming myself. "
Bruce Lee-

#90    Render

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Posted 20 December 2012 - 08:04 AM

School Shootings: What We Know and What We Can Do


Quote

Dec. 19, 2012 — A new article explores what we have learned about these tragic incidents, and what can be done to prevent them.

The authors conclude that the most effective way of trying to prevent these tragedies is through threat assessment, which requires fundamental testing of such traits as: suicide risk, homicide risk, thought processes, reality testing, mood and behavior as well as relevant social and developmental histories. Also helpful is to pay particular attention to any obsession with firearms or violence, and the presence of writings or drawings with violent themes. While this may seem obvious, unfortunately, the resources available to mental health workers in schools do not sufficiently provide for these assessments. The authors also conclude that mental health workers and adults must be socialized to take threats of interpersonal violence seriously, as they have been with threats of suicide.
Finally, Flannery and colleagues urge for a renewed focus on treatment for the victims of such crimes. Usually most of the focus in the aftermath of such events lies in trying to come up with a reason why someone would perpetrate such a crime, or in other words, trying to make some sort of sense out of these tragedies. While this is understandable, considerable care must be given to ensure that the victims of these crimes receive the mental health treatment they require.

http://www.scienceda...21219152705.htm

I don't really agree with their conclusions, because they appear very hollow.





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