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#16    lightly

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 01:32 AM


Posted Imagelightly, on 24 March 2013 - 08:23 AM, said:


Nothing , and nothingness,  are words we use to describe the complete absence of matter&energy.   ( I think nothingness is an odd word.. it seems to give "nothing"  a quality or a state )


View PostFrank Merton, on 24 March 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

Well, absence of matter and energy describes empty space, which to me is something.

    oops i forgot about space and time ...  Still , we've all heard the expression "in the Nothingness of space" ?  :whistle:   ( and i'm not so sure space/time exists with Nothing in it?)    But ya,  nothing is less than that.  It does not exist.. at all.. ever..never      Which leaves us with.. Something ?

Important:  The above may contain errors, inaccuracies, omissions, and other limitations.

#17    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

Like I use to wonder If there were ever spots in space where there were no stars that shined light, so essentially it would be just a dark spot, but yeah I mean I see nothingness as just darkness but even thats something. This is a very complicated subject for me to grasp for some reason :no:

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THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#18    libstaK

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

If nothing is something then

The act of giving a name/label to the notion or "condition" where there is not any thing of any nature whatsoever is the creation of something from no thing?

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#19    Frank Merton

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 04:56 PM

Olber's paradox asks why the sky is mostly dark if the universe is endless; eventually in every line of sight you should eventually encounter a star.  Of course now we know the universe has only existed a limited time, so the light from most of those stars has not had time to reach us, and actually never will as they many are receding faster than the speed of light (they are not themselves moving so fast -- the space they  are in is).

I wonder about the beginning of time.  Whether there was something before the Big Bang or not is not the issue.  Time itself had to have some sort of beginning or it could not have gotten here (a paradox of infinity that it takes infinity to cross infiniy).  There would have been nothing "before" the beginning of time, not empty eons but absolutely no time.


#20    Abramelin

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:36 PM

"Nothing" is "non-existence".

We have no idea what it is to not-exist, so there we have the source for the belief in an afterlife and the belief in God or gods starting creation.

"There must be something outthere". We want to fill voids we cannot handle with concepts we can,


#21    ReaperS_ParadoX

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:39 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 25 March 2013 - 04:56 PM, said:

Olber's paradox asks why the sky is mostly dark if the universe is endless; eventually in every line of sight you should eventually encounter a star.  Of course now we know the universe has only existed a limited time, so the light from most of those stars has not had time to reach us, and actually never will as they many are receding faster than the speed of light (they are not themselves moving so fast -- the space they  are in is).

I wonder about the beginning of time.  Whether there was something before the Big Bang or not is not the issue.  Time itself had to have some sort of beginning or it could not have gotten here (a paradox of infinity that it takes infinity to cross infiniy).  There would have been nothing "before" the beginning of time, not empty eons but absolutely no time.
I thought they say that time began at the moment the big bang happened

Edited by R4z3rsPar4d0x, 25 March 2013 - 05:39 PM.

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THAT IS NOT DEAD WHICH CAN ETERNAL LIE AND WITH STRANGE AEONS EVEN DEATH MAY DIE

#22    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 05:49 PM

solipsistic

Edited by Lord Vetinari, 25 March 2013 - 05:51 PM.

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

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#23    J. K.

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Posted 25 March 2013 - 06:07 PM

Trying to imagine what "nothing" was before a Big Bang always makes my brain hurt.

Although "nothing" exists as a concept, I don't think it can't exist in reality (other than a mathematical integer value). It's the ultimate "if the tree falls in the woods" scenario.  If there were "nothing", no one would be around to witness it.

One's reality is another's nightmare.

#24    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 03:36 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 24 March 2013 - 10:06 AM, said:

There is no such thing as nothing.  It is a contradiction in terms.

I happen to agree. Nothingness itself is something, therefore there is no such thing as nothing. The question comes however, what is that something/nothing, uh, thing?

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#25    Render

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Posted 26 March 2013 - 10:36 PM

Oh interesting thread. I made one just like it today in the Science section lol. Forgive me, I did a search on "nothing" but nothing turned up. Anyways, if the mods see this i guess the other thread can be merged with this one or i can repost the information for now:

What is nothing? Physicists Debate

Quote

NEW YORK — It was all much ado about nothing as physicists and thinkers came together to debate the concept of nothing Wednesday (March 20) here at the American Museum of Natural History.
The simple idea of nothing, a concept that even toddlers can understand, proved surprisingly difficult for the scientists to pin down, with some of them questioning whether such a thing as nothing exists at all.
The first, most basic idea of nothing — empty space with nothing in it — was quickly agreed not to benothing. In our universe, even a dark, empty void of space, absent of all particles, is still something.

"It has a topology, it has a shape, it's a physical object," philosopher Jim Holt said during the museum's annual Isaac Asimov Memorial Debate, which this year was focused on the topic of "The Existence of Nothing."
As moderator Neil deGrasse Tyson, director of the museum's Hayden Planetarium, said, "If laws of physics still apply, the laws of physics are not nothing." [Endless Void or Big Crunch: How Will the Universe End?]

http://www.livescien...sts-debate.html

Edited by Render, 26 March 2013 - 10:37 PM.


#26    StarMountainKid

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 12:06 AM

Leonardo da Vinci quote: "Among the great things that are found among us, the being of nothingness is the greatest."

The acceptance of authority does not lead to intelligence.
A mind untouched by thought...the end of knowledge.
To see reality loose your opinions.

#27    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:09 AM

I think a couple of threads, one the scientific ideas about nothingness and another the philosophical problem, works.


#28    CrimsonKing

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 06:44 AM

The real idea of nothing does not exist,neither does the idea of everything.Only what we can comprehend do we understand.

"If it is not advantageous,do not move.If objectives can not be attained,do not employ the army.Unless endangered do not engage in warfare.The ruler cannot mobilize the army out of personal anger.The general can not engage in battle because of personal frustration.When it is advantageous,move;when not advantageous,stop.Anger can revert to happiness,annoyance can revert to joy,but a vanquished state cannot be revived,the dead cannot be brought back to life." Sun-Tzu

#29    Frank Merton

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 07:56 AM

How about this formulation: If nothing existed, there would be nothing.


#30    Norbert Dentressangle

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 08:29 AM

View PostRender, on 26 March 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Oh interesting thread. I made one just like it today in the Science section lol. Forgive me, I did a search on "nothing" but nothing turned up.
So does that mean that nothing turned up, as in there was no thing that turned up, or something did turn up, but that something that turned up was nothing? :unsure2:

Life is a hideous business, and from the background behind what we know of it peer daemoniacal hints of truth which make it sometimes a thousandfold more hideous.

H. P. Lovecraft.


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