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The Patterson Bigfoot suit


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#136    VNICA

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:17 PM

I have been reading through the pages & pages of comments.  One that caught me was that the only way he would believe is if he saw a body - so in other words kill something so he could believe - IN MY OPINION I'd rather he stay a disbeliever.  Why do we as a species feel it proper to kill & study everything around us.  AND how many fo you that would need a body believe in the 2000 year old myth of a man dying & resurrecting & then floating up to heaven with no proof whatsoever?

Edited by VNICA, 05 June 2013 - 10:18 PM.


#137    Stardrive

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Posted 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 04 June 2013 - 11:36 PM, said:

Indeed he can, he can make one that looks just the same, in all dimensions from a 30 second film clip. He can recreate her, just as is claimed he can.
And all because he has a template to go by and he's a costume maker......  just sayin.

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What we have is a subject in a film.
Mark it down on the calander, we agree on something  :lol:

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All but a couple of fringe scientists can point out a dozen reasons why this is a man in a suit. All but one costume maker say it is a costume and they could do better. We have controversy because people believe in this incredibly small minority that is working on wild guesses. With regards to the film, 46 years of investigation has shown no trace of Bigfoot in the area ever again, nobody has filmed this again, nothing at all, but on the hoax side we have a man who says he wore the suit, we have a man who said he laid tracks all over the area, we have men who are not eyewitness testimony, but direct witnesses to Patterson's request for advice on said suit and we have "The Suit" recreated. It looks to me the suit has one heck of a lot more behind it than the sorry cries of "show me the suit" that support Patterson.
Yep, show me the suit. Because so far, all that is, is someones story. It more than likely is a person in a suit in the film, I'm just saying there has been no proof brought forward, to date, that that is the case.

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If Morris really wanted to scam this, he could just have made a suit and left it in the weather for 6 months, and then claimed it was the original, perhaps retrieved due to a bounced check. How would you prove that wrong? And the thing would be worth a small fortune to a collector. I know of a couple of Georgia Policeman that might be more than interested in it.
Yeah a collector would pay big bucks for it... so where is it? I'm sure Mrs. Patterson wants to know where it is to.

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Eyewitness testimony is decidedly shaky, these people are direct witnesses. Harvey Anderson offerred a recollection of an actual conversation, not a recollection of something blurry in the woods at distance. I see a difference there myself.
There are plenty of "direct witnesses" to all kinds of things. So I wouldn't jump up and down about it to much.

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#138    DieChecker

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:38 AM

View Postkeninsc, on 04 June 2013 - 11:28 PM, said:

Personally, I have to sort of wonder about the really large/tall ones you hear about a lot. Ten feet plus in height and such, personally anything that freaking large is going to get noticed regardless of how stealthy it might be. I think eight feet is a stretch, and I think it could be to shock and a little fear, surprise all rolled up into one. I recall guys reporting being attacked by 200 plus VC in Nam......then you point out that they were only a ten man squad and that 200 plus VC would have eaten their cookies.

I've never seen a Bigfoot so I have no idea what their actual height is.....however? Ten feet? They could have a great career in the NBA.
Personnally I think the people who see 10 foot tall bigfoots are the same kind of people who see 2000 pound black bears, and every deer has 20 points and a rack 6 feet across. They.... embellish some, I think. It would be really hard to tell a 7 to 8 foot BF from a 10 to 11 foot BF in the woods. Especially if the person is excited, scared, or amazed.

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#139    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 01:59 AM

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 June 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

So John Chmbers made the BF suit? Interesting.

No, you should have read the link in full. Mika McCraken's Father used to work with Chambers, and commented that Chambers was capable of the work. That is how the rumour got started. McCraken Jr made it up from speculation. Landis did not help either, making stuff up, but the controversy got Landis noticed as well as Chambers.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 June 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

a few posts above you,, "Philip Morris claimed that he made and sold the Bigfoot suit"

And he did.

View PostEarl.Of.Trumps, on 05 June 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

So we know at least ONE of them is lying.

Nope, Morris said "I made the suit" and Chambers said "I wish we had made the suit, we would have done it better".

On October 26, 1997, California Bigfoot researcher and nurse Bobbie Short interviewed Chambers, then living in seclusion in a Los Angeles nursing home. The make-up artist insisted he had no prior knowledge of Roger Patterson or Bob Gimlin before their claimed Bigfoot encounter on October 20, 1967. He also denied having anything to do with creating the suit, and blamed the Hollywood rumor mill. Chambers went on to say that he was “good” but he “was not that good” to have fashioned anything nearly so convincing as the Bluff Creek Bigfoot.

LINK

Funny how proponents report Chambers as being impressed, but reporters seem to have got something different, both however say, as does the man himself, that Chambers denies being involved.

November 1, 1997
© CNI News Agency

Oscar-winning Hollywood special effects wizard, John "Planet of the Apes" Chambers, has been alleged by rumor for years to be responsible for creating a costume featured in the famous Bigfoot film footage shot by Roger Patterson in 1967. The rumor was masterminded allegedly by film director John Landis and Baker perpetrated the advancement of the rumor, which was totally false in order to promote Chambers reputation. This was then believed and subsequently noted to be supported bynumerous artists within the special effects industry.
However, new information from Brian Penikas, Creative Director for a company called Make-up and Monsters, puts to rest the theory that Chambers had any hand in the Patterson film. Penikas writes:

"Recently my crew and I were involved in a surprise 75th birthday tribute to Mr. Chambers, for which 9 of us recreated a parody skit re-enacting characters from the Ape movies.  Mr. Chambers and the rest of the guests, many of whom were survivors of the Apes saga, were wonderfully surprised."
"Thanx to a quick introduction from writer Scott Essman, I had only met Mr. Chambers briefly prior to the surprise party, and the opportunity to discuss the 'suit' rumor was not high on my agenda. This past Saturday [October 25, 1997], however, the cast of the Apes birthday skit went back (sans costumes and makeup) to visit with Mr. Chambers and his wife.  This was our chance to truly and finally confront Mr. Chambers about these rumors and stories about him being involved in the Patterson film project."
"Mr. Chambers told his story, on video tape, to us to set the record straight.  I now have pictures of the suit that Chambers did make and you can rest assured that it is NOT the famous Patterson Bigfoot.  In fact, it's not a suit AT ALL.  It is an 8 foot tall plaster dummy of actor Richard 'Jaws' Keil that was built (in 4 days) as a prop for a travelling carnival to be billed as 'Bigfoot's Body' or some such sideshow attraction, and was apparently displayed in a coffin.  That's all.  Just a solid, 800-pound prop."
Brian's missing comment: "When pressed by Essman during the taped interview, John said, 'I can honestly say, without laughing, that I had nothing to do with that [the Patterson] film.'  Then he cracked a slight smile and let out a little chuckle."
"Mr. Chambers did say (in regards to the Patterson footage) that he and his crew wished they had done it, because they would have done it differently. I believe his exact words were, jokingly, 'We could've done better.' "
Missing comment: (can't remember what I said here, but I know there was more.)
So there you have it... We can all smile with relief that the Patterson footage is still the most convincing proof of our great folk legend's existence, and that it still has not been debunked. "I want that film to be real just as much as the next guy," Penikas said in conclusion. More missing comments: (I do remember my concluding comment was a little more in-depth than this as I do not usually end a statement with an incomplete thought. I don't remember in detail what I said exactly.  Something about how intriguing the whole Patterson film was to me while growing up and how cool it would be if the Patterson creature was indeed real, I think.).

I felt it necessary to at least let the viewers know that my 1997 quotes that have been copied and recopied, pasted and repasted, throughout the internet, were not complete.  Whether they were intentionally "edited" to support specific views, I don't know.  I do know that there was more to my original comments than many of the sites are posting.

Thank you for reading.
Brian Penikas
Member: IATSE Make-up & Hairstylists Local 706
Member :S.A.G.
Member: Academy of Television Arts & Sciences
August 18th, 2008  


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#140    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:01 AM

View PostVNICA, on 05 June 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

I have been reading through the pages & pages of comments.  One that caught me was that the only way he would believe is if he saw a body - so in other words kill something so he could believe - IN MY OPINION I'd rather he stay a disbeliever.  Why do we as a species feel it proper to kill & study everything around us.  AND how many fo you that would need a body believe in the 2000 year old myth of a man dying & resurrecting & then floating up to heaven with no proof whatsoever?

I need that proof thanks :D

I think the reason people are so aloof, is because it is pretty well known this is a hoax. I do not think anyone deep down really believes in this claim. The arguments exist for the sake of argument only.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#141    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:24 AM

View PostStardrive, on 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

And all because he has a template to go by and he's a costume maker......  just sayin.

Where did he get the template from then? Nobody else has recreated it perfectly have they?

View PostStardrive, on 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Mark it down on the calander, we agree on something  :lol:

I did not know we always disagreed, in fact I thought we got along OK, you seem much crankier than I remember you.

View PostStardrive, on 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Yep, show me the suit. Because so far, all that is, is someones story. It more than likely is a person in a suit in the film, I'm just saying there has been no proof brought forward, to date, that that is the case.

There is direct testimony, from several parties that corroborates, which is evidence in any court and that which is more valuable then eyewitness testimony. And there is a recreation of the suit itself. All of this is indeed evidence by definition and admissible.

If the suit is expected to be reproduced, it seems fair that the footage be reproduced also.

View PostStardrive, on 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

Yeah a collector would pay big bucks for it... so where is it? I'm sure Mrs. Patterson wants to know where it is to.

Destroyed by Patterson. As I said, if Morris wanted to be underhanded the opportunity was there to make good money.

When did Mrs Patterson ask this?

View PostStardrive, on 05 June 2013 - 10:45 PM, said:

There are plenty of "direct witnesses" to all kinds of things. So I wouldn't jump up and down about it to much.

Can you outline the pitfalls of direct testimony? If there are plenty, why do you think that might be?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#142    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:27 AM

View PostDieChecker, on 06 June 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Personnally I think the people who see 10 foot tall bigfoots are the same kind of people who see 2000 pound black bears, and every deer has 20 points and a rack 6 feet across. They.... embellish some, I think. It would be really hard to tell a 7 to 8 foot BF from a 10 to 11 foot BF in the woods. Especially if the person is excited, scared, or amazed.

Posted Image



Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#143    Myles

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 12:32 PM

View PostVNICA, on 05 June 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

I have been reading through the pages & pages of comments.  One that caught me was that the only way he would believe is if he saw a body - so in other words kill something so he could believe - IN MY OPINION I'd rather he stay a disbeliever.  Why do we as a species feel it proper to kill & study everything around us.  AND how many fo you that would need a body believe in the 2000 year old myth of a man dying & resurrecting & then floating up to heaven with no proof whatsoever?

I don't think that is true at all.    Bones, an already dead bigfoot, a trapped bigfoot, even a good scat sample.


#144    Stardrive

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM

View Postpsyche101, on 06 June 2013 - 02:24 AM, said:

Where did he get the template from then? Nobody else has recreated it perfectly have they?
The template is the subject in the PGF itself. I was just pointing out that he had something to go by.

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I did not know we always disagreed, in fact I thought we got along OK, you seem much crankier than I remember you.
Well I have my good days and my bad days...lol.

I was just kiddin with ya ol pal. Don't let this go to your head, but I've been an avid psyche fan for years. But yeah, I guess I've been a bit grouchy these days because I've been working and going to school. To many long days in a row. Lack of proper rest is beginning to catch up with me.

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There is direct testimony, from several parties that corroborates, which is evidence in any court and that which is more valuable then eyewitness testimony. And there is a recreation of the suit itself. All of this is indeed evidence by definition and admissible.
If you want to put all your eggs in one basket, that's great. It's just as good as anything else out there I guess.  

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When did Mrs Patterson ask this?
As far as I know, she hadn't. My point was, I'm sure she could use some extra cash.

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Can you outline the pitfalls of direct testimony?
Direct testimony is what you need for a court case, where you're sworn in and held accountable, under penalty of law, for the accuracy of the testimony given.  

Direct testimony, in the context of the topic discussed, is not held accountable, under penalty of law, for the accuracy of said testimony.

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#145    keninsc

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 08:35 PM

View PostVNICA, on 05 June 2013 - 10:17 PM, said:

I have been reading through the pages & pages of comments.  One that caught me was that the only way he would believe is if he saw a body - so in other words kill something so he could believe - IN MY OPINION I'd rather he stay a disbeliever.  Why do we as a species feel it proper to kill & study everything around us.  AND how many fo you that would need a body believe in the 2000 year old myth of a man dying & resurrecting & then floating up to heaven with no proof whatsoever?

Yeah, if I don't have a body or carcass then it isn't real. Too many hoaxers, fakers and straight up liars in the world now. I'd point to Slick Rick Dyer as a great example of BS artists that now infiltrate the community. But if you have a real body, then it's real.


#146    Myles

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 09:11 PM

View Postkeninsc, on 06 June 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Yeah, if I don't have a body or carcass then it isn't real. Too many hoaxers, fakers and straight up liars in the world now. I'd point to Slick Rick Dyer as a great example of BS artists that now infiltrate the community. But if you have a real body, then it's real.

Would bones do it for you?    It probably would for me if it went through the right channels.    I believe Gigantopithecus was real and they've found very few bones from it.   Mostly just teeth and jawbones.


#147    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

View PostStardrive, on 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

The template is the subject in the PGF itself. I was just pointing out that he had something to go by.

But I think it's a magnificent job for a 30 second grainy film clip.

View PostStardrive, on 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Well I have my good days and my bad days...lol.

I was just kiddin with ya ol pal. Don't let this go to your head, but I've been an avid psyche fan for years. But yeah, I guess I've been a bit grouchy these days because I've been working and going to school. To many long days in a row. Lack of proper rest is beginning to catch up with me.

Cheers mate, and thank you for the kind words. I can understand that, I have been under the pump myself this year. We all learn from each other, I know I learn much here. I hope your studies are coming along well.

View PostStardrive, on 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

If you want to put all your eggs in one basket, that's great. It's just as good as anything else out there I guess.  

I just see this as a good option with more evidence and corroboration than any other claim or hypothesis.

View PostStardrive, on 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

As far as I know, she hadn't. My point was, I'm sure she could use some extra cash.

She own 49% of the film as far as I know, so she should be doing OK with the interest it has generated over the years.

View PostStardrive, on 06 June 2013 - 02:47 PM, said:

Direct testimony is what you need for a court case, where you're sworn in and held accountable, under penalty of law, for the accuracy of the testimony given.  

Direct testimony, in the context of the topic discussed, is not held accountable, under penalty of law, for the accuracy of said testimony.

But in this case the testimonies corroborate, which I feel is very convincing.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#148    psyche101

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Posted 06 June 2013 - 11:23 PM

View PostMyles, on 06 June 2013 - 09:11 PM, said:

Would bones do it for you? It probably would for me if it went through the right channels. I believe Gigantopithecus was real and they've found very few bones from it.   Mostly just teeth and jawbones.

Indeed, 46 years of anecdotes are wearing thin.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#149    the13bats

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 03:17 AM

Cool thread, I found this by chance and after running through this thread see that all the old debates around the Patterson film are still going strong,



So I was laying here waxing to my wife that I don't care if a person believes the Patterson film shows an unknown creature or a man in a suit either way no one has yet to prove it 100% real or fake,



well, I guess I might not be able to say that anymore, someone posted a flyer for the TV show about how the suit was faked, how Morris came forward,

somehow I missed seeing the program, But after a quick goggle hunt I can't seem to find a place that I can watch that TV land show,



So I signed up here just to post this asking if any of you kind souls might know where I can go watch this show....



Yeah, I know true believers will never give up this is a real creature, sadly too many have based their whole belief system and reputations on this one film.....



Thanks,

Cheers,

P.


#150    Myles

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Posted 20 December 2013 - 12:20 PM

Here is an intersting little clip.






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