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CNN Joins Tea Party: Delay ACA for 1 Year !

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#181    Frank Merton

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 10:40 AM

View PostRavenHawk, on 29 October 2013 - 05:02 PM, said:

The running average may be about 3% over the past 50 years but actual is currently around 1.6%.  
Yea.  Way too slow.  The recovery has been way sub-par.


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This is correct.  We need to find ways to encourage job creation here but things like taxes and Obamacare seem to kill that incentive.
Taxes seem perversely designed in the States to destroy jobs and encourage automation.  That improves productivity but sometimes it just pushes the jobs offshore.  Democrats tend to view business as a sort of necessary evil, and as a result when they are in power they regulate too harshly, and this slowly undermines capitalist investment.


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This is what the meaning of "Promoting the General Welfare" was.  Roads and Bridges are far more beneficial to maintaining good health than cramming Obamacare down our throats.  Everyone will use at least one road in their life.  Not everyone needs Health Insurance.  That is why the Constitution didn't say to Pass out Dole".
Capital improvements are the way to go, so long as they are not boondoggles, and that takes political discipline.  Other spending, such as on research and space and natural resources and the environment all look to the future.  If you are going to borrow to pay for these things, they should be things that benefit future taxpayers.


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I think this is too vague.  Can you be more specific?  Liberalize immigration would not be very smart and I'll give you an example why.  Given the logistics for it to happen, if everyone on the planet decides that tomorrow, they will immigrate to America, America will no longer be American.  It would be a mix of Chinese and Indian.  The point being that immigration must be strictly controlled so that those that are legal immigrants can acclimate and absorb into our culture.  This isn't to deny one's heritage.  It's to assure that one's heritage adds to our culture, not take it over or divide it.
This is a huge issue all to itself.   Let me just say that the world will meld into one people and culture someday anyway, and resisting it just causes trouble.  In the meantime the world's population is aging and it is the young who tend to immigrate (and you can design the rules to strengthen that).  There is the saying, "The one's with the get-up-and-go are the ones who get up and go."  This has shown itself repeatedly in US history where immigrants bring in new energy and new ideas and rebirth.


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Wow, that is amazing coming from a non American!
I went to college in the States, lost my virginity there, and travel there for a month or so every year in my business.  You also have to remember that educated foreigners are far better informed about the States than Americans are about the rest of the world.


#182    joc

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:52 AM

View PostTiggs, on 01 November 2013 - 07:23 AM, said:

Of course you don't. You're plugged into the right wing media's version of the Universe, and I'm not.



And presumably they were caught and went to jail.

Are you aware that Republican voting fraud also exists?



I presume you're talking about the recent keeping your own insurance thing. He's racked up quite a few.

Was that a bad lie? Sure. Lots of people have been misled about being able to keep their existing healthcare insurance, as it seems that the rules for grandfathering them in were Draconian enough that the vast majority of them were not expected to qualify.

What I don't understand, however, is how you somehow seem to think that butter wouldn't melt on your side of the political aisle - which seems to be an ongoing theme here.

Don't think for a second that any other Politician tells the truth all of the time, let alone whilst they're campaigning for the presidency.



The numbers come directly from the Office of Management and Budget. As usual - believe whatever it is that you want to believe, Joc.

Either way - I'm going to be mostly AWOL from the internet for the next month or so, to take part in the National Novel Writing Month, so we'll have to pick this up again some other time.

My apologies.
Very cool!  Have fun with that! :tu:

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#183    ninjadude

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:15 AM

View Postjoc, on 01 November 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

I also know that Obama was busing in people from all over who had no right to vote.

how do you know thy had no right to vote?

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I remember a bus load of Haitians who couldn't even speak English, given ballots

speaking English is not required. Nor is some specific ethnicity. that BIGOTED of you.

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#184    joc

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 01:48 AM

View Postninjadude, on 02 November 2013 - 01:15 AM, said:

how do you know thy had no right to vote?



speaking English is not required. Nor is some specific ethnicity. that BIGOTED of you.
You aren't very smart.  It isn't about whether or not they could speak Engish...it is about VOTER FRAUD...YOU CANNOT DO THAT!  YOU CANNOT TELL PEOPLE WHO TO VOTE FOR AT THE FREAKING BALLOT BOX!

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#185    Harte

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Posted 09 November 2013 - 05:03 PM

View PostTiggs, on 29 October 2013 - 04:32 AM, said:

Skipping the obvious natural resources for a moment - If everyone has their own business - where are the employees going to come from?


Gov spending. Technically, the President produces a budget every year, regardless if it's possible to pass one through Congress or not. While it's true that funding has mostly been a series of continuing resolutions, the current budget has passed the Democratic majority Senate, and is waiting for the Republican majority House to come to conference, who refused to discuss it, citing irreconcilable differences - which is the actual reason that no budgets have been able to pass.
While irreconcilable differences may be the reason the Senate budget hasn't been taken up, that is hardly the reason "no budgets have been able to pass."

The House has passed several budget resolutions.  The Senate, as you note, has finally passed one after 4 years without even proposing one.

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#186    Tiggs

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 05:25 PM

View PostHarte, on 09 November 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

While irreconcilable differences may be the reason the Senate budget hasn't been taken up, that is hardly the reason "no budgets have been able to pass."

The House has passed several budget resolutions.  The Senate, as you note, has finally passed one after 4 years without even proposing one.
If there are irreconcilable differences between the two parties - then it doesn't particularly matter which party recognizes it first.

One party wishes to gut the federal government. The other - not so much.

Spending time creating a budget that you know in advance will never pass the other half of Congress is a fairly pointless exercise.



#187    Harte

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Posted 27 November 2013 - 07:12 PM

About as pointless as failing to create a budget and then accusing the other side of refusing to compromise.

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#188    Tiggs

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Posted 28 November 2013 - 12:31 AM

View PostHarte, on 27 November 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

About as pointless as failing to create a budget and then accusing the other side of refusing to compromise.
It's the House's job to offer up a reasonable budget that will pass the Senate, or at least come back with only minor amendments.

If they're unable to do that - which they obviously are - then the only choice is either continuing resolution or the shutdown of the United States.

Choose.


#189    Yamato

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Posted 05 December 2013 - 03:43 AM

View Postjoc, on 24 October 2013 - 11:18 AM, said:

A 'left' Libertariiana?  I have never heard the term before, but okay.   The biggest problem I see with all of this is that no one seems interested in addressing the 'real' problem.   The problem isn't health care...it is the ability to PAY for health care.  There is a reason that health care is so expensive in the United States and this is where the discussion needs to generate viable solutions.  Generally, the problem is government interference in the market place.  There isn't much competition allowed.  And they just added insult to injury with the new taxes on medical devices.
A "Left Libertarian".  You had never heard that term before.   Perhaps you thought there was a reason why libertarians had to lean to the right?   I'm a left libertarian too, yet Tiggs and I don't agree politically on anything because while our interests/goals/values might be exactly the same, we have two diametrically opposed solutions to achieve that ideal.

Tiggs wrote to you:

Quote

I believe that society should help humans to survive, regardless of their circumstances.   You believe that a human has to prove their fitness to society in order to survive

I would edit those two statements because when he was describing his belief he used "Should" but when he described your belief, he raised the bar to "Has To", which wasn't fair to you, it's like saying that your beliefs require force and his don't, which I'm pretty sure everyone knows isn't true.  

So to improve the accuracy and fairness of the statements:

Society should help humans to survive, regardless of their circumstances.  -vs-   A human should prove their fitness to society in order to survive.

Comparing these two statements of should, I'm not sure I'm qualified to answer which is the greater good.   I'm not sure any of us are.  They're both true statements.   Which one we prefer may be the best way yet to determine meaningful differences in our politics.   But I think it's important to note these value judgments are subjective and perhaps they should all be respected instead of politically fought over.

Indeed, why must the two statements in italics above be mutually exclusive?   Why must it be an either-or proposition like the political debate keeps implying?   Why can't we have both at the same time?   Wouldn't that be an even better society? I think that picking either one of these two ideals while forsaking the other is a false choice.

Edited by Yamato, 05 December 2013 - 04:11 AM.

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#190    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 04:50 AM

View Postjoc, on 02 November 2013 - 01:48 AM, said:

You aren't very smart.  It isn't about whether or not they could speak Engish...it is about VOTER FRAUD...YOU CANNOT DO THAT!  YOU CANNOT TELL PEOPLE WHO TO VOTE FOR AT THE FREAKING BALLOT BOX!
Really?
That's how it's done here all the bloody time! The drones hand out "how to vote" cards with their own candidates as number one etc.

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When the fear is gone, there will be nothing.
Only I will remain.

#191    joc

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Posted 07 December 2013 - 05:32 AM

View PostSir Wearer of Hats, on 07 December 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:

Really?
That's how it's done here all the bloody time! The drones hand out "how to vote" cards with their own candidates as number one etc.
In the States it is illegal to do at the voting place.   But they do it anyway...if no one will stop them, they will do it...and no one will stop them...so...yeah

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