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Christianity and the Paranormal


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#16    JesseCuster

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 02:20 AM

View PostAquilaChrysaetos, on 10 December 2012 - 11:57 PM, said:

Not if he is as he says, the only perfect being that's existed. What more would one need?
I don't understand what your point is meant to be here.  Earlier in this thread you were trying to imply that ghosts were demonic because Jesus didn't specify their existence.

To quote yourself:

AquilaChrysaetos said:

Where is this idea ever mentioned by Christ, or anyone else in the bible?
The direct implication is that because Jesus or the BIble doesn't mention it, therefore it's somehow anti-Christian or anti-Biblical.

Jesus never mentioned anything (remotely specific) about the existence of exoplanets, smartphones, the Internet, Justin Bieber, telescopes, MRI scanners, NASA, the Arabic numeral system, etc.  I could go on, but you get the point.

How is the undeniable existence of these things not mentioned by Christ any different from his lack of mention of spirits of people who die and hang around to be seen by us.  Did Christ explicitly deny such a thing was possible any more than he denied things in my list above were possible?

"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." - Richard P. Feynman

#17    coldethyl

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Posted 11 December 2012 - 03:08 AM

Shouldn't this be in the spirituality section?

He also said you shouldn't eat any fruit that was from a tree less than 5 years old.  You know how crazy you sound to grocers when you ask them if they know if the tree your orange came from was 5 years old?


#18    AquilaChrysaetos

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 02:40 AM

View PostArchimedes, on 11 December 2012 - 02:20 AM, said:

I don't understand what your point is meant to be here.  Earlier in this thread you were trying to imply that ghosts were demonic because Jesus didn't specify their existence.

The direct implication is that because Jesus or the BIble doesn't mention it, therefore it's somehow anti-Christian or anti-Biblical.

Jesus never mentioned anything (remotely specific) about the existence of exoplanets, smartphones, the Internet, Justin Bieber, telescopes, MRI scanners, NASA, the Arabic numeral system, etc.  I could go on, but you get the point.

How is the undeniable existence of these things not mentioned by Christ any different from his lack of mention of spirits of people who die and hang around to be seen by us.  Did Christ explicitly deny such a thing was possible any more than he denied things in my list above were possible?

I was trying to imply that it is possible that ghosts are demonic because Jesus didn't specify their existance. I never gave an absolute. I only gave a possible assumption of mine.

Now it is true that Christ never mentioned those things, however, every single thing you mentioned (except of course exoplanets and the Arabic numerical system) are all things that only exist in the distant future. Not only that, but every one of those are completely insignificant and would completely divulge from his overall message. However, the theory that when people die they stay here, would more than be an important fact to emphasize to people, considering just about his whole message concerns the human afterlife.

He never mentions anything like that, which would naturally leave me to question the theory. That's all I'm saying.

Jesus Christ - Matthew 28:18-20 said:

"All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age."

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#19    eight bits

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Posted 15 December 2012 - 06:42 AM

Of course, I look at this in an abstract way, not being a Christian apologist, although not having a quarrel with most Christians because of their religious beliefs.

Even if you adopt as typical of Chrisitanity what is in fact a minority view among Christians, sola scriptura, you would still have to consider John's closer (21: 25)

There are also many other things that Jesus did, but if these were to be described individually, I do not think the whole world would contain the books that would be written.

That would seem directly to blunt

Quote

Not if he (Jesus) is as he says, the only perfect being that's existed. What more would one need?

Sola scriptura would say nothing more is needed, as regards to "salvation, faith and maybe morals." But even sola scriptura doesn't extend to other things you might be interested in, like other people's ghosts. Maybe Jesus had something to say about it, or maybe he didn't. If it isn't recorded in the canon, though, then it would seem that you're on your own.

The majority of Chrisitans belong to churches that don't teach sola scriptura anyway.

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...but every one of those (features of modern secular life) are completely insignificant and would completely divulge from his overall message... considering just about his whole message concerns the human afterlife.

Whether some comment by Jesus on ghosts was mission-critical would depend on what you believed his overall message to be. You may bave noticed that Chrisitans have a variety of ideas about that. Also, it would depend on what ghosts are. People who are involved in their study differ about that almost as much as Chrisitans differ about Jesus' message.

BTW, I would disagree even as a sola scriptura matter that "just about his whole message" as it is recorded concerned human afterlife. Jesus has very little to say about the topic, as cannot be a surprise when a Jewish preacher addresses a Jewish audience. His focus, as you would expect, was on how to live this life in this world. The pay-off was to be collective, something affecting the Jewish nation and maybe all humanity, rather than individual good outcomes.

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I was trying to imply that it is possible that ghosts are demonic ...

Then in Chrisitan terms, you are addressing something called the discernment of spirits (as the phrase is used by Paul in 1 Corinthians 12: 10; there is a somewhat different usage by Igantius Loyola which I'd like to put aside for the time being).

If I were a Christian apologist, then I would look to this letter of Paul as my proof text that a Christian might be called to the investigation of the paranormal (12: 7-11)

To each individual the manifestation of the Spirit is given for some benefit. To one is given through the Spirit the expression of wisdom; to another the expression of knowledge according to the same Spirit; to another faith by the same Spirit; to another gifts of healing by the one Spirit; to another mighty deeds; to another prophecy; to another discernment of spirits; to another varieties of tongues; to another interpretation of tongues.But one and the same Spirit produces all of these, distributing them individually to each person as he wishes.

Hey, if the Spirit (whom Nicene Christians consider to be God, just as they consider Jesus to be God) wishes to call some to discernment, then who am I to cite scripture against God? I'm in enough trouble already.

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