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What causes Gravity?


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#16    Saru

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 03:13 PM

                                                Homer & Kermit,

I'm not sure what the current take is on the gravitational 'Instant action at a distance' idea, but I think the current speed of Gravity is regarded as being that of light. I don't think Gravity is instant, so I would agree that there must be a 'Speed of Gravity' one way or the other.

DSchwartz,

QUOTE

mass cannot warp space, if that were so, we would warp the space around our bodies and have a gravity of our own


We do indeed warp space around our bodies, and we do have gravity of our own. The only difference is, a human being has an extremely small mass, and therefore has a correspondingly small gravitational pull - so small that it is generally unnoticable. The same goes for every single object on the planet. Mountains have a larger gravitational pull, a postage stamp would have a much smaller effect still. The earth on the other hand, is a very large mass, and has a correspondingly larger and very noticeable gravitational pull.                                                


#17    Saru

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Posted 17 February 2003 - 03:22 PM

                                                Regarding your query about the rotating space station - the rotation on an orbitting space station creates 'artifical gravity', which is not really 'gravity' at all.

The rotation results in an outward centrifugal force, which creates a similar effect that seems very much like the gravitational pull on the earth. It is not caused by mass warping space, but simply by the rotation causing the astronauts to experience a force pulling them towards the outer walls of the station.                                                


#18    Bizarro

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:51 AM

                                                i am just not following your 'mass warping space' idea.  it doesn't work according to the physics we have, so i still vote for the classical newtonian explanation.  exactly how do you know that mass warps space around it?  because Einstein says so?  you saying that i am wrong is like me saying there is a god and you saying there isnt- its just speculation.  

                                                

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#19    Saru

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 09:56 AM

                                                The 'Mass warping space' theory does work according to present day physics, hence the fact that it is generally regarded to be correct. You cannot directly 'measure' the warping of space, granted, but the effects are very evident.

QUOTE

so i still vote for the classical newtonian explanation


There is no newtonian explanation for gravity at all, Isaac Newton could not explain gravity, he simply observed it. He observed it's effects, but could not explain why it was there.

There have been numerous experiments carried out to prove the accuracy of General Relativity. One such experiment involved the bending of light when it passed through a sufficiently strong 'gravitational field'. This was carried in the early 20th century, when light from the planet Mercury was found to bend small amounts due to the gravitational field of the sun. This, and many other experiments since, prove the accuracy of General Relativity beyond reasonable doubt - not simply because 'Einstein says so', but because it is correct.                                                


#20    Althalus

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 12:09 PM

                                                Below are a coup[le of links to sites that essentially back-up the mass-warping-space theory:

Relativity - General Theory

Click here                                                

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#21    Bizarro

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 03:11 PM

                                                what you call warping, i call the reaction to a force being applied.  if you think that force acting on light will not draw it towards the force, then you are crazy.  gravity is a force and when you move something against that force, it is going to affect its trajectory- this is not necessarily warping space.  einstein explains this as warping space but others explain it as the effects of a force on an object.  that's why i say i believe newton's ideas on gravity.  

i love how people take simple things and try to 'bend' them to their philosophies smile.gif

just because something is 'generally regarded to be correct' doesn't give you the right to shoot down my opinion.  ill stick with my last statement.                                                

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#22    j6p

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:22 PM

                                                Good morning Althalus, I've added those links to my vast bank of great links smile.gif  thank you.
I've taken this excerpt from one link because it explains the lensing effect(bending of light due to a gravitational influence):

During a total solar eclipse bright stars are visible on photographs of the darkened sky around the eclipsed Sun. Another photograph of the same area of the sky can be made at night (a few months earlier or later) with the same telescope when the Sun is in a different place in the sky. Star positions on the two photographs can then be compared and will show that the stars around the eclipsed Sun have shifted away from the Sun. The amount of deflection decreases with the star's distance from the Sun's limb. This experiment was carried out for the May 29, 1919, total eclipse by two teams of British scientists, one lead by Arthur Eddington. Their results and numerous measurements since all support the predictions of Einstein's general relativity and confirms the existence of a region of curved space surrounding the Sun.

In science as in most things if the outcome of an action is predicted with near exact accuracy, its almost a sure bet that the person making the prediction knows what he/she is talking about.                                                


#23    Saru

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 04:23 PM

                                                
QUOTE

If you think that force acting on light will not draw it towards the force, then you are crazy.


DSchwartz,

Try applying a magnetic force on a beam of light, and see if that will cause it to bend. Light will only bend when passed through a gravitational field - a curved region of space.

If the rotation of a body causes gravity, then why do non-rotating bodies exhibit a gravitational pull ? In addition, if the rotation of the earth was the only thing that caused it's gravity, then everything on the surface would have been flung off into space.

I'm not sure you're really putting forward an arguement against 'mass warping space', what your saying is that gravity is the force attracting all bodies towards each other, which is true, but that doesn't prove or disprove the warping of space idea, which tries to explain what causes these gravitational forces in the first place.                                                


#24    Bizarro

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 08:28 PM

                                                im not trying to prove or disprove anything.  quite honestly, i couldn't begin to believe that i have an explanation of gravity.  i think it will be millenia before mankind can grasp the truth about such things.  we just don't have enough experience with space to formulate this kind of knowledge yet.

                                                

if there was a meteor,
adrift amongst space,
set about on a collision course
not with Earth, but my face...
i wonder if id even know,
at what time i might,
be passed off like an old style
and by the meteor be smite?

- me, 1997

#25    Homer

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 08:58 PM

                                                DS,
You’re right in that mankind still has much to learn about gravity. Although it is known that gravity doesn’t actually push or pull anything, and instead is the result of mass warping space, nobody knows why it has the effect on space that it does.

                                                

אַ֭תָּה אֱלֹהֵ֣י יִשְׁעִ֑י

#26    Althalus

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 09:05 PM

                                                on a lighter note, i think it should have been called Grabbity, sounds so much better, but then I have been watching a bit to much Rugrats for my own good lately.   tongue.gif                                                

"We make choices everyday, some of them good, some of them bad. And - if we are strong enough - we live with the consequences."
— David Gemmell

#27    j6p

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Posted 18 February 2003 - 10:45 PM

                                                Alt..you may be on to something here. Lets see, A shuttle booster rocket has "Trust" because you had better have trust or get your butt outa there. Then there is "proPUSHion" cause thats what it does and of coarse, "grabbity". I like that. biggrin.gif                                                


#28    CASTOR

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Posted 05 March 2003 - 11:30 PM

                                                  everything has gravity. Mass is the key component.  F = G * ((m1 * m2) / r squared) is the formula you are needing.  The F is the force accumulated by gravitational pull.  The G is a constant 6.67 * 10 to the -11th power.  The units for G are Nm2/kg squared.  The main contributing factor to gravitational pull, however, is the distance between the objects.  This is the r in the equation.  The centrifugal force from the spinning of the earth is also a contributing factor in its case.  mass is what is the main thing here. like a black hole has infinite mass and density. so that means that it will pull everything including light. that is gravity!                                                  

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#29    Hobo

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Posted 13 March 2003 - 04:54 AM

                                                  just a wild theory, but what if gravity was a reflection of the expansion of the universe. the larger the collection of mass the larger the reflection. also if the big crunch occures insted of the universe expanding and its contents attracting eachother the universe would contract and its contents would repell eachother.                                                  





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