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Chronological order of the bible


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#46    scowl

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 07:49 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 07 July 2013 - 02:10 AM, said:

I am different. For me this life is all i have, and god helps me make the most of it, of myself, and my ability to serve others. That brings peace, empowerment and joy in this life, which very few humans seem to attain, and that is enough for me.

Odd that you think very few humans have these things. You should get out and meet more of us. You'll find there's nothing special about it.


#47    Jor-el

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Posted 07 July 2013 - 09:18 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 07 July 2013 - 01:30 AM, said:

Between creationism and evolution there is no comparison.  One is a creation myth, the other is the science that describes the living world and how it came to be as it is.  They each have their use.

I asked this question once but never received an answer.... you are a UM member correct, as such I assume you visit the other forums on our esteemed page, especially the Ancient Mysteries & Alternative History forum.

It is on record that we have found tools in rock millions of years old, we have found pieces of nano tech as old as humanity is supposed to be in silt layers that have been undisturbed for millennia and you come up with evolution.... explain please how you reconcile these conflicting "facts"?

And don't give me the hoola that there is no evidence of what I have said...

Edited by Jor-el, 07 July 2013 - 09:43 PM.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#48    Mr Walker

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 12:42 AM

View Postscowl, on 07 July 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

Odd that you think very few humans have these things. You should get out and meet more of us. You'll find there's nothing special about it.

I meet thousands of people in my job and life. Admittedly many of them are young people who have aprticualr problems in life But I do not meet many like me'
Never get angry.
Never get depressed.
Are never lonely.
Are never afraid.
Never have to grieve the loss of loved ones beyond a gentle form of loss.
Love all those around them.
Know that they can do anything they can imagine doing in life, and have done most of these things.
Are loved by those around them.
Understand them selves and their relationship to others and their environment.
Have complete self discipline of mind and body
Apprecite tha tthey are not responsible for others reations only for their own treatment of others
Love their work and would go to it every day even if they were not well paid to do so.
Live by the laws of the land and has never been in any trouble with the law. (ok booked for speeding slightly above the limit twice in 45 years but never had a parking ticket)
Are completely fullfilled and happy in their life and can justify this by their works in life.
Dont need any artificial stimulants to deal with life or to create artificial "moods".
Knows they are not perfect but a work in continual progress.
Has maintained a close and loving relationship with everyone of their family.
Has maintained a close, monogamous, and totally loving relationship with the same partner for over 40 years.
Are not envious of others but rather see all humans as one and give away all that they do not need to others who are in desparate need
Are empowered and protected by a real physical and powerful god who continually tutors mentors and  saves their life when it is endangered,  as well as gives abilities beyond those of mortal men :innocent:
And as a consequence, whose mind is always at peace (apart from an intense curiousity) and filled with power love joy and wonder.

No; looking around I do not see many people so "lucky" as me.

Edited by Mr Walker, 08 July 2013 - 12:50 AM.

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#49    Doug1o29

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 03:52 AM

View PostJor-el, on 07 July 2013 - 09:18 PM, said:

It is on record that we have found tools in rock millions of years old, we have found pieces of nano tech as old as humanity is supposed to be in silt layers that have been undisturbed for millennia and you come up with evolution.... explain please how you reconcile these conflicting "facts"?

And don't give me the hoola that there is no evidence of what I have said...
Unless you can cite peer-reviewed articles that support these contentions, you have no evidence.

Who found something?  Where did he find it?  When did he find it?  What strata was it in?  How were dates determined?  For that matter, how do we know that the item was actually a tool?  And exactly what nano-tech evidence do you have?  How did it get there?  You haven't even begun to answer the questions needed to support your contention.  Let's get specific.  Post your references so we can have a discussion based on what was actually said.  And no, I don't mean who posted what on UM.
Doug

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The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#50    Doug1o29

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:07 AM

View PostMr Walker, on 06 July 2013 - 12:17 AM, said:

The underlying assumptions here are. One, that miracles do not occur, because two, a god/entity who can produce them does not exist.
The underlying assumption here is that miracles do not occur because they have never been observed elsewhere.  If miracles are rather common events, then it is easy to believe in them and hence, biblical miracles.  But if nobody else has ever observed one, then claims of biblical miracles get harder to swallow.

Before one can claim a biblical miracle, one must be able to claim ANY miracle.

There is also a problem with the definition of "miracle."  What is usually meant is a violation of what is physically possible.  But what if the "miracle" is physically possible, but highly improbable?  It's not a miracle when somebody wins the lottery - that is built into the system.  The miracle would be if I won the lottery - that is possible, but highly improbable.  Exactly, what is a miracle?

Quote

In a way, the significance of the bible story is its entirety, from alpha to omega, the wisdoms found within it, and particularly the widoms and principles epoused in the gospels, by christ. A modern human being can live entirely by those  principles, happily and productively, and if our social structure was based upon them it would be a far better place for most to live in.
Amen.  And one doesn't even have to believe in Jesus to live by those teachings.
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 08 July 2013 - 04:10 AM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#51    Frank Merton

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 04:23 AM

Jorel's claims are nonsense and I've long given up bothering with him.  Belief in god because it gives life meaning or makes one happy or something along these lines holds no appeal to me.  Science necessarily trumps ancient myths.  Creation myths are useful as literature and as such serve our culture as part of its vocabulary of allusion, plus, (we talk about Adam and Eve and so on all the time), of course, as a root source of comparative religion.


#52    Mr Walker

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:31 AM

View PostDoug1o29, on 08 July 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

The underlying assumption here is that miracles do not occur because they have never been observed elsewhere.  If miracles are rather common events, then it is easy to believe in them and hence, biblical miracles.  But if nobody else has ever observed one, then claims of biblical miracles get harder to swallow.

Before one can claim a biblical miracle, one must be able to claim ANY miracle.

There is also a problem with the definition of "miracle."  What is usually meant is a violation of what is physically possible.  But what if the "miracle" is physically possible, but highly improbable?  It's not a miracle when somebody wins the lottery - that is built into the system.  The miracle would be if I won the lottery - that is possible, but highly improbable.  Exactly, what is a miracle?

Amen.  And one doesn't even have to believe in Jesus to live by those teachings.
Doug
But of course physical miracles are common, even everday, events. Millions of humans, past and present, experience them  just as  millions experience direct contact with god.  I am sorry if you have so far missed out but you shouldnt let this prejudice your judgement :innocent:  Oh and biblical miracles are no different from any miracle. they are basically the application of a technology so advanced that we cant recognise it as technology.  (although we are geting closer.

I can recognise some miracles as involving holographic type projections, others the transformation of matter and energy, and some the telepartation of beings and matter/energy The appearance and dematerialisation of an angel is physically indistinguishable from the  teleportation of humans as seen on films like star trek.

They are "beamed in" and then "beamed up" againn. (When god speaks to a human mind to mind or projects visions into their mind he is doing nothing more than humans wil be able to do within the next 100 years for example) So i can see how the miracles are feasible (get a template for one loaf and one fish produce thousands from  raw marerials and teleport them to a destination Humans will do this by the end of this century in their own homes, so it is not a big deal for an advanced entity.

For me the best miracles are where god tells me precisely what he plans to do, his reasons, and its effects, and then carries this out, using his abilities.. I only count something as a miracle if it involves an independently observable and measurable alteration in our natural physicla environment

Yes i was brought up largely as a secular humanist and became an atheist at a young age, but i was taught ethics and moralities ising logic reason and philosophy. My family lived by christ's example, even though only nominally christians.

I lived by them as an atheist for many years and found no conflict with the ethics and moralities of secular humanism , but they gave me a more proactive vision than just atheism..

You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world..

Be cheerful.

Strive to be happy.

#53    fullywired

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 01:02 PM

View Postscowl, on 07 July 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

.. You should get out and meet more of us. You'll find there's nothing special about it.


He hasn't time to go out he is too busy reading

  fullywired :innocent: :innocent:

Posted Image  



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-------Buddha (563 - 483 BC)

#54    Doug1o29

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 07:08 PM

View PostMr Walker, on 08 July 2013 - 11:31 AM, said:

But of course physical miracles are common, even everday, events.
You had to know I was going to say this:  give me a specific example of a miracle.  One that is actually verifiable.  Not a story that may or may not be true.

I don't recall who said this, but:  someone once asked "What would you say if you saw a iron bar floating in the air?"  I believe it was Aldous Huxley who answered:  "I would say there was a natural phenomenon with which I was not familiar."  That is the problem you are up against with proving miracles - there always  may be some phenomenon that explains everything but that is unknown.

And while Star Trek technologies make good television, the assumption that some unknown entity is employing them is nothing more than speculation:  perhaps it is good theology, but there is no evidence to support it.


I find myself in Pascal's predicament:  how can I be sure if anything is true?  I reached the stage in which one has verified his own existence and the existence of the physical universe.  NOW:  How do I verify a supernatural universe?  So far, that has eluded me.  Any ideas?
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 08 July 2013 - 07:09 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#55    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 08:09 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 08 July 2013 - 03:52 AM, said:

Unless you can cite peer-reviewed articles that support these contentions, you have no evidence.

Who found something?  Where did he find it?  When did he find it?  What strata was it in?  How were dates determined?  For that matter, how do we know that the item was actually a tool?  And exactly what nano-tech evidence do you have?  How did it get there?  You haven't even begun to answer the questions needed to support your contention.  Let's get specific.  Post your references so we can have a discussion based on what was actually said.  And no, I don't mean who posted what on UM.
Doug

You have got to be kidding....

If that was all available we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, we wouldn't even be talking of evolution...

If it took over 30 years for the establishment to even admit to a human presence before 10.000 C.E. in the Americas even after archaeologists lost their jobs defending it then you don't seem to be living in the real world.

Pleistocene Epoch Finds

- Copper Coin from Illinois, over 200,000 years old
This rendition of a coin-like object, from a well boring near Lawn Ridge, Illinois, was found at a depth of about 114 feet below the surface.

According to the information supplied by the Illinois State Geological Survey, the deposits containing the coin are between 200,000 and 400,000 years old...



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Who left this coin hundreds of thousands of years before civilized man evolved?

- Modern Human Skeleton from Tanzania, over 800,000 years old
In 1913 Professor Hans Reck, of Berlin University, conducted investigations at Olduvai Gorge in Tanzania, then German East Africa.

During his stay at Olduvai Gorge, Reck found a modern human skeleton that remains a source of mystery and controversy to this day.



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This modern skull is from a fully human skeleton found that year. The human skeletal remains, including this complete skull, were cemented in the rock and had to be chipped with hammers and chisels. It was found in the upper end of a rock bed dated at more than 1,000,000 years old.

How did this modern human find his way 1,000,000 years into the past?

- Willendorf Venus Statue, over 30,000 years old
The Willendorf Venus, from Europe, dated at 30,000 years old. Who created or left this artifact nearly 20,000 years before human civilization appeared?



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- Modern Human Skull in Buenos Aires, over 1,000,000 years old
In 1896, workers excavating a dry dock in Buenos Aires found a modern human skull. The Pre-Ensenadan stratum in which the Buenos Aires skull was found is a least 1.0 - 1.5 million years old.



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Even at 1 million years the presence of a fully modern human skull anywhere in the world is highly anomalous.

Why and how did a modern human arrive in Buenos Aires over 1,000,000 years ahead of its time?


Pliocene Epoch Finds

- Figurines from Nampa, Idaho, about 2 million years old
A small human image, skillfully formed in clay, was found in 1889 at Nampa, Idaho.

The figurine came from the 300-foot level of a well boring and dated to be of the Plio-Pleistocene age, about 2 million years old. G. F. Wright noted,


"The image is about an inch and a half long; and remarkable for the perfection with which it represents the human form... It was a female figure, and had the lifelike lineaments in the parts which were finished that would do credit to the classic centers of art."


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Upon showing the object to ProfessorF. W. Putnam," wrote Wright, "he at once directed attention to the character of the incrustations of iron upon the surface as indicative of a relic of considerable antiquity. There were patches of anhydrous red oxide of iron in protected places upon it, such as could not have been formed upon any fraudulent object."

- Modern Human Skull found in Italy, over 3 - 4 million years old
Late in the summer of 1860, Professor Giuseppe Ragazzoni, a geologist and teacher at the Technical Institute of Brescia, traveled to the nearby locale of Castenedolo, about 10 kilometers southeast of Brescia, to gather fossil shells in the Pliocene strata exposed in a pit at the base of a low hill, the Colle de Vento.



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Here he discovered this remarkable and anatomically modern human skull. The stratum from which it was taken is assigned to the Astian stage of the Pliocene.

According to modern authorities, the Astian belongs to the Middle Pliocene, which would give the skull an age of 3 - 4 million years.

- Carved Shell from the Red Crag, England, between 2.0 and 2.5 million years old
In a report delivered to the British Association for the Advancement of Science in 1881, H. Stopes, F.G.S. (Fellow of the Geological Society), described a shell, the surface of which bore a carving of a crude but unmistakably human face. The carved shell was found in the stratified deposits of the Red Crag.


The Red Crag, part of which is called the Walton Crag, is dated to be of Late Pliocene age between 2.0 and 2.5 million years old. This find would place intelligent beings in England as far back as 2.0 million and maybe as much as 2.5 million years ago.


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One should keep in mind that in terms of conventional paleoanthropoligical opinion, one does not encounter such works of art until the time of fully modern Cro-Magnon man in the Late Pleistocene, about 30,000 years ago.

Eocene Epoch Finds

- Chalk Ball near Laon, France, 45 - 55 million years old
The April 1862 edition of The Geologist included an English translation of an intriguing report by Maximilien Melleville, the vice president of the Societe Academique of Laon , France.

This chalk ball was discovered in an Early Eocene lignite bed. On the basis of its stratigraphic position, is has been assigned a date of 45 - 55 million years ago.

According to Melleville, there was no possibility that the chalk ball was a forgery:


"It really is penetrated over four-fifths of its height by a black bituminous color that merges toward the top into a yellow circle, and which is evidently due to the contact of the lignite in which it had been for so long a time plunged. The upper part, which was in contact with the shell bed, on the contrary has preserved its natural color -- the dull white of the chalk.... As to the rock in which it was found, I can affirm that it is perfectly virgin, and presents no trace whatever of any ancient exploitation.


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As extraordinary as it might seem to those attached to standard evolutionary views, the evidence associated in this find suggest that if humans made the ball, they must have been in France 45 - 55 million years ago.

- Mortar and Pestle in California, up to 55 million years old
In 1877 Mr. J. H. Neale was superintendent of the Montezuma Tunnel Company, and ran the Montezuma tunnel into the gravel underlying the lava of Table Mountain, Tuolumne County...

At a distance of between 1400 and 1500 feet from the mouth of the tunnel, or of between 200 and 300 feet beyond the edge of the solid lava, Mr. Neale saw several spear-heads of some dark rock and nearly one foot in length.

On exploring further, he himself found a small mortar three or four inches in diameter and of irregular shape.





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This was discovered within a foot or two of the spear-heads.

He then found a large well-formed pestle and near by a large and very regular mortar. All of these relics were found the same afternoon, and were all within a few feet of one another and close to the bed-rock, perhaps within a foot of it. Mr. Neale declares that it is utterly impossible that these relics can have reached the position in which they were found excepting at the time the gravel was deposited, and before the lava cap formed.

The position of the artifacts in gravel close to the bed-rock at Tuolumne Table Mountain indicates they were 33-55 million years old. Grazing and carnivorous mammals had not even evolved on the planet at this time.

- Sling Stone from Bramford, England, 5 - 50 million years old
This sling stone is from the detritus bed beneath the Red Crag at Bramford, England. At least Pliocene in age, the stone is at least 5 million and possibly up to 50 million years old. Upon examination it was obvious that the stone had been shaped by the hand of man....



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The whole surface... has been scraped with a flint, in such a way that it is covered with a series of facets running fairly regularly from end to end.... The scraping described above covers the whole surface of the object, and penetrates into its irregularities.

As it stands the object is entirely artificial... yet left in a time millions of years before humans had had even evolved on the Earth.

Mesozoic Era Proof

The Mesozoic Era is one of the major divisions of geological history, following the Paleozoic era and preceding the Cenozoic era.

The Mesozoic era, which lasted from approximately 240 million to 65 million years ago, may be characterized as the Age of Reptiles because their greatest development occurred during this era. The first birds and mammals and the first flowering plants also appeared at this time. The Mesozoic era is divided into three time periods: the Triassic, Jurassic, and Cretaceous.

As we move back into time we enter a period in the Mesozoic Era that began with the first dinosaurs appearing on the earth and ending with the development of flowering plants. Humans wouldn’t evolve for at least another 136 million years.


Cretaceous Period


- Metallic Tube at Saint-Jean de Livet, France over 65 million years old
Y. Druet and H. Salfati announced in 1968 the discovery of semi-ovoid metallic tubes of identical shape but varying size in Cretaceous chalk.

The chalk bed, exposed in a quarry at Saint-Jean de Livet, France, is estimated to be least 65 million years old.



http://www.bibliotec...travel08_14.jpg


Having considered and eliminated several hypotheses, Druet and Salfati concluded that intelligent beings had lived 65 million years ago. Who brought and left behind these metallic tubes in France more than 65 million years before the first human being would appear?

Triassic Period

- Shoe Sole from Nevada, dated at 213 - 248 million years ago
On October 8, 1922, the American Weekly section of the New York Sunday American ran a prominent feature titled "Mystery of the Petrified ’Shoe Sole," by Dr. W. H. Ballou.

Ballou wrote:


"Some time ago, while he was prospecting for fossils in Nevada, John T. Reid, a distinguished mining engineer and geologist, stopped suddenly and looked down in utter bewilderment and amazement at a rock near his feet. For there, a part of the rock itself, was what seemed to be a human footprint!

Closer inspection showed that it was not a mark of a naked foot, but was, apparently, a shoe sole which had been turned into stone.



http://www.bibliotec...travel08_15.jpg


The forepart was missing.

But there was the outline of at least two-thirds of it, and around this outline ran a well-defined sewn thread which had, it appeared, attached the welt to the sole. Further on was another line of sewing, and in the center, where the foot would have rested had the object really been a shoe sole, there was an indentation, exactly such as would have been made by the bone of the heel rubbing upon and wearing down the material of which the sole had been made.


Reid got hold of a microphotographer and an analytical chemist of the Rockefeller Institute, who made photos and analyses of the specimen. The analyses removed any doubt of the shoe sole having been subjected to Triassic fossilization....

The microphoto magnifications are twenty times larger than the specimen itself, showing the minutest detail of thread twist and warp, proving conclusively that the shoe sole is not a resemblance, but is strictly the handiwork of man. Even to the naked eye the threads can be seen distinctly, along with the definitely symmetrical outlines of the shoe sole. Inside this rim and running parallel to it is a line which appears to be regularly perforated as if for stitches.

The Triassic rock bearing the fossil shoe sole is now recognized as being dated at 213 - 248 million years old. An obviously modern shoe, complete with stitching, and etched in time in ancient Triassic rock.

Paleozoic Era Proof

The Paleozoic Era is a major division of geological time, preceded by Precambrian time and followed by the Mesozoic era, and including the Cambrian, Ordovician, Silurian, Devonian, Carboniferous, and Permian periods. The Paleozoic Era began about 570 million years ago and ended about 240 million years ago.

As we move back even further in time we enter this period of the Paleozoic Era where life was evolving from primitive, multicellular, free-floating forms in the sea to advanced groups on land. The most advanced life forms at the end of this period where amphibians, insects, fern forests, and small reptiles. Humans would not evolve for nearly another 300 million years.


Carboniferous Period

- Gold Thread in England, between 320 - 360 million years old
On June 22, 1844, this curious report appeared in the London Times:


"A few days ago, as some workmen were employed in quarrying a rock close to the Tweed about a quarter of a mile below Rutherford-mill, a gold thread was discovered embedded in the stone at a depth of eight feet."
Dr. A. W. Medd of the British Geological Survey wrote in 1985 that this stone is of Early Carboniferous age between 320 and 360 million years old.

Who dropped this gold thread in the ancient fern forests in a distant time when the most advanced life forms on the planet where amphibians and insects?

- Gold Chain from Morrisonville, Illinois, 260 - 320 million years old
On June 11, 1891, The Morrisonville Times reported:


"A curious find was brought to light by Mrs. S. W. Culp last Tuesday morning. As she was breaking a lump of coal preparatory to putting it in the scuttle, she discovered, as the lump fell apart, embedded in a circular shape a small gold chain about ten inches in length of antique and quaint workmanship.

At first Mrs. Culp thought the chain had been dropped accidentally in the coal, but as she undertook to lift the chain up, the idea of its having been recently dropped was at once made fallacious, for as the lump of coal broke it separated almost in the middle, and the circular position of the chain placed the two ends near to each other, and as the lump separated, the middle of the chain became loosened while each end remained fastened to the coal.


The lump of coal from which this chain was taken is supposed to come from the Taylorville or Pana mines (southern Illinois) and almost hushes one’s breath with mystery when it is thought for how many long ages the earth has been forming strata after strata which hid the golden links from view. The chain was an eight-carat gold and weighed eight penny-weights."

The Illinois State Geological Survey has said the coal in which the gold chain was found is 260 - 320 million years old. This raises the possibility that culturally advanced human beings were present or visiting in North America during that time.

How did this gold chain find itself left behind in Earth’s distant past more than a quarter of a billion years before humans had evolved?

- Carved Stone near Webster, Iowa, 260 - 320 million years old
The April 2,1897 edition of the Daily News of Omaha, Nebraska, carried an article titled "Carved Stone Buried in a Mine," which described an object from a mine near Webster City, Iowa.

The article stated:


"While mining coal today in the Lehigh coal mine, at a depth of 130 feet, one of the miners came upon a piece of rock which puzzles him and he was unable to account for its presence at the bottom of the coal mine. The stone is of a dark grey color and about two feet long, one foot wide and four inches in thickness.

Over the surface of the stone, which is very hard, lines are drawn at angles forming perfect diamonds. The center of each diamond is a fairly good face of an old man having a peculiar indentation in the forehead that appears in each of the pictures, all of them being remarkably alike. Of the faces, all but two are looking to the right.

- Iron Cup from Oklahoma Coal Mine, 312 million years old
On November 27, 1948 the following statement was made by Frank J. Kenwood in Sulphur Springs, Arkansas.


"While I was working in the Municipal Electric Plant in Thomas, Oklahoma in 1912, I came upon a solid chunk of coal which was too large to use. I broke it with a sledge hammer. This iron pot fell from the center leaving the impression mould of the pot in the piece of coal.

Jim Stall (an employee of the company) witnessed the breaking of the coal, and saw the pot fall out. I traced the source of the coal, and found that it came from the Wilburton, Oklahoma, Mines. According to Robert O. Fay of the Oklahoma Geological Survey, the Wilburton mine coal is about 312 million years old.



What advanced civilization was creating or using iron pots in our past more than 300 million years ago?- Block Wall in an Oklahoma Mine, at least 286 million years old
W.W. McCormick of Abilene, Texas, reported his grandfather’s account of a stone block wall that was found deep within a coal mine:


"In the year 1928, I, Atlas Almon Mathis, was working in coal mine No. 5., located two miles north of Heavener, Oklahoma. This was a shaft mine, and they told us it was two miles deep. The mine was so deep that they let us down into it on an elevator.... They pumped air down to us, it was so deep." One evening, Mathis was blasting coal loose by explosives in "room 24" of this mine.

"The next morning," said Mathis, "there were several concrete blocks laying in the room. These blocks were 12-inch cubes and were so smooth and polished on the outside that all six sides could serve as mirrors. Yet they were full of gravel, because I chipped one of them open with my pick, and it was plain concrete inside."

Mathis added: "As I started to timber the room up, it caved in; and I barely escaped. When I came back after the cave-in, a solid wall of these polished blocks was left exposed. About 100 to 150 yards farther down our air core, another miner struck this same wall, or one very similar."

The coal in the mine was Carboniferous, which would mean the wall was at least 286 million years old. According to Mathis, the mining company officers immediately pulled the men out of the mine and forbade them to speak about what they had seen. Mathis said the Wilburton miners also told of finding "a solid block of silver in the shape of a barrel... with the prints of the staves on it," in an area of coal dating between 280 and 320 million years ago.

What advance civilization built this wall?... Why was the truth, as is so many of these cases protected and hidden?... What is the real truth about time travelers, modern humans, and modern technology in our past?

- Hieroglyphics in Ohio Coal Mine, 260 million year old
It is reported that James Parsons, and his two sons, exhumed a slate wall in a coal mine at Hammondville, Ohio, in 1868. It was a large smooth wall, disclosed when a great mass of coal fell away from it, and on its surface, carved in bold relief, were several lines of hieroglyphics.

Who carved these hieroglyphics more than 250 years before humans walked the earth?


Devonian Period

- Nail in Devonian Sandstone, between 360 and 408 million years old
In 1844, Sir David Brewster reported that a nail had been discovered firmly embedded in a block of sandstone from the Kingoodie (Mylnfield) Quarry in North Britain.  

Dr. A. W. Medd of the British Geological Survey recently indicated that this sandstone is of "Lower Old Red Sandstone age" (Devonian, between 360 and 408 million years old). In his report to the British Association for the Advancement of Science, Brewster stated:


"The particular block in which the nail was found, was nine inches thick, and in proceeding to clear the rough rock for dressing, the point of the nail was found projecting about half an inch (quite eaten with rust) into the ’till,’ the rest of the nail lying along the surface of the stone to within an inch of the head, which went right down into the body of the stone."
The fact that the head of the nail was buried in the sandstone block would seem to rule out the possibility the nail had been pounded into the block after it was quarried. This was a time where amphibians and insects were the only dominant life form on our planet.

So who dropped this nail to have it eventually preserved in rock at a time more than 350 million years before humans appeared?


Cambrian Period


- Shoe Print in Utah Shale, 505 to 590 Million Years Old
In 1968, William J. Meister, a draftsman and amateur trilobite collector, reported finding a shoe print in the Wheeler Shale near Antelope Spring, Utah.

This shoe-like indentation and its cast were revealed when Meister split open a block of shale.


http://www.bibliotec...travel08_16.jpg


Clearly visible within the imprint were the remains of trilobites, extinct marine arthropods. The shale holding the print and the trilobite fossils is from the Cambrian, and would thus be 505 to 590 million years old.

Meister described the ancient shoe-like impression in an article that appeared in the Creation Research Society Quarterly:


"The heel print was indented in the rock about an eighth of an inch more than the sole. The footprint was clearly that of the right foot because the sandal was well worn on the right side of the heel in the characteristic fashion."
At this time in our planet’s history there was no plant or animal life on the land, even the most early types of fish swimming in the seas had not yet evolved.

Pre-Cambrian Period


- Metallic Vase from Pre-Cambrian Rock, over 600 Million Years Old
The following report, titled "A Relic of a Bygone Age," appeared in the magazine Scientific American (June 5, 1852):


"A few days ago a powerful blast was made in the rock at Meeting House Hill, in Dorchester, a few rods south of Rev. Mr. Hall’s meeting house. The blast threw out an immense mass of rock, some of the pieces weighing several tons, and scattered fragments in all directions. Among them was picked a metallic vessel in two parts, rent asunder by the explosion. On putting the parts together it formed a bell-shaped vessel, 4-1/2 inches high, 6-1/2 inches at the base, 2-1/2 inches at the top, and about an eighth of an inch in thickness.


http://www.bibliotec...travel08_45.jpg


The body of this vessel resembles zinc in color, or a composition metal, in which there is a considerable portion of silver. On the side there are six figures of a flower, or bouquet, beautifully inlaid with pure silver, and around the lower part of the vessel a vine, or wreath, also inlaid with silver.

The chasing, carving, and inlaying are exquisitely done by the art of some cunning workman. This curious and unknown vessel was blown out of the solid pudding stone, fifteen feet below the surface."


According to a recent U.S. Geological Survey map of the Boston-Dorchester area, the pudding stone, now called the Roxbury conglomerate, is of Precambrian age, over 600 million years old. By standard accounts, life was just beginning to form on this planet during the Precambrian.

But in the Dorchester vessel we have evidence indicating the presence of artistic metal workers in North America over 600 million years before Leif Erikson. At this time in our planets history the was no life on land, plant or animal. The most advance life-form at this barren time in our planets history was simple algae floating in the seas. Yet somehow through time this beautiful work or art was brought and left behind and eventually buried and preserved in ancient rock.

- Grooved Sphere from South Africa, 2.8 Billion Years Old
Over the past several decades, South African miners have found hundreds of metallic spheres, at least one of which has three parallel grooves running around its equator.


http://www.bibliotec...travel08_17.jpg




The spheres are of two types


"one of solid bluish metal with white flecks, and another which is a hollow ball filled with a white spongy center."
Roelf Marx, curator of the museum of Klerksdorp, South Africa, where some of the spheres are housed, said:


"The spheres are a complete mystery. They look man-made, yet at the time in Earth’s history when they came to rest in this rock no intelligent life existed. The globes are found in pyrophyllite, which is mined near the little town of Ottosdal in the Western Transvaal. This pyrophyllite is a quite soft secondary mineral with a count of only 3 on the Mohs’ scale and was formed by sedimentation about 2.8 billion years ago. On the other hand the globes are very hard and cannot be scratched, even by steel."
The sphere with the three parallel grooves around it are too perfect to be anything but man made. The Precambrian mineral deposit where the globes are found is dated to be at least 2.8 billion years old. At this time simple microscopic cells were all that was alive on the earth.

Other Finds


- Artifacts From AIX En Provence, France
In his book Mineralogy, Count Bournon recorded an intriguing discovery that had been made by French workmen in the latter part of the eighteenth century.

Bournon wrote:


"During the years 1786, 1787, and 1788, they were occupied near AIX en Provence, in France, in quarrying stone for the rebuilding , upon a vast scale, of the Palace of Justice. The stone was a limestone of deep grey, and of that kind which are tender when they come out of the quarry, but harden by exposure to the air.

The strata were separated from one another by a bed of sand mixed with clay, more or less calcareous. The first which were wrought presented no appearance of any foreign bodies, but, after the workmen had removed the ten first beds, they were astonished, when taking away the eleventh, to find its inferior surface, at the depth of forty or fifty feet, covered with shells.

The stone of this bed having been removed, as they were taking away a stratum of argillaceous sand, which separated the eleventh bed from the twelfth, they found stumps of columns and fragments of stone half wrought, and the stone was exactly similar to that of the quarry: they found moreover coins, handles of hammers, and other tools or fragments of tools in wood.

But that which principally commanded their attention, was a board about one inch thick and seven or eight feet long; it was broken into many pieces, of which none were missing, and it was possible to join them again one to another, and to restore to the board or plate its original form, which was that of the boards of the same kind used by the masons and quarry men: it was worn in the same manner, rounded and waving upon the edges."


Count Bournon, continuing his description, stated:


"The stones which were completely or partly wrought, had not at all changed in their nature, but the fragments of the board, and the instruments, and pieces of instruments of wood, had been changed into agate, which was very fine and agreeably colored. Here then, we have the traces of a work executed by the hand of man, placed at a depth of fifty feet, and covered with eleven beds of compact limestone: everything tended to prove that this work had been executed upon the spot where the traces existed.
- Letter-like Shapes in Marble, Philadelphia
In 1830, letter-like shapes were discovered within a solid block of marble from a quarry 12 miles northwest of Philadelphia. The marble block was taken from a depth of 60-70 feet.


http://www.bibliotec...travel08_18.jpg


This was reported in the American Journal of Science (vol. 19, 1831, p. 361). The quarry workers removed layers of gneiss, mica slate, hornblende, talcose slate, and primitive clay slate before coming to the layer from which the block containing the letter-like shapes were cut.

While they were sawing through the block, the workmen happened to notice a rectangular indentation, about 1.5 inches wide by .625 inches high, displaying two raised characters.

Several respectable gentlemen from nearby Norristown, Pennsylvania, were called to the scene and inspected the object. It is hard to explain the formation of the characters as products of natural physical processes.

This suggests the characters were made by intelligent humans in the distant past.



The Nano Spirals

In the years between 1991 and 1995 various Russian gold prospectors made some peculiar discoveries at the rivers Balbanju, Narada, Kozhim and at the creeks Wetwisty and Lapchewozh. In a depth from 10 to 39 feet (3 to 12 meters) they found artificial artefacts made up of metal which hold a size from 3 centimeters to 0.0003 millimeters.

You can see on the pictures that no matter who built these spirals, they must had access to a higher form of (nano) technology. A technology which is avaible to us only since some decades. One can exclude with absolute certainty that those spirals where formed by natural activities because on one hand they offer an astonishing regularity and on the other hand they are made up of copper, molybdenum and tungsten. They have a plain surface with traces of holes and partially have also cores made up of molybdenum and tungsten. By cognizing the special form and configuration of the spirals it was clear that they were used technically. Furthermore measurements showed that the proportions of the spirals possess the "golden ratio". Most notably the bigger objects are made up of molybdenum and tungsten.

In this regard it is interesting that molybdenum has a melting point of 4748°F (2620°C) and is used by present day's version of human beings mostly in electro-technics and rocketry as well as an ingredient for alloy (molybdenum-steel), as it also occurs with tungsten. The latter was produced for the first time in 1783 by the Spanish brothers Fausto Elhuyar and Juan José Elhuyar through beneficiation of tungsten trioxid. The very hard metal tungsten, even has an melting point of 6116°F (3380°C) and is used mostly as filament for illuminants today and as already mentioned it's also used as alloy.

Amongst other things the objects were analyzed accurately through "Auger spectroscopy". This allows an exploration of the surface without damaging or destroying any of the objects. The analysis was put in execution in the central scientific institute for geology and metallurgy in Moscow. The results were amazing. One examination report shows that the scientists come to the findings that the layer of earth in which some of the spirals were found can be dated back to 100.000 years. In that report it was excluded that those artefacts were residues or garbage from Russian space flight projects. Though some people who can not arrange the truth with their inflexible world view are nonetheless certain that those artefacts "have to be" remains of Russian space flight projects or suchlike.

If this really is the case then I want an explanation for the fact that those spiral artefacts were found in layers of earth up to 39 feet (12 meters) in depth. I am consistently astounded of how bullheaded and narrow-minded some people are and how they try to counteract the evidences, evidences and thoughts that overrun the scope of mind and show that the universe has much more to offer than we get to learn at school or university. Arguably the sentence which finishes the report of the Russian scientists is a part of that:

"The data obtained allow the possibility of an extra-terrestrial technogenic origin"

And again we have physical evidence showing that our view of the world is incorrect. This case also just allows two possible explanations. Either the artefacts have an extraterrestrial origin as the russian scientists suppose in their report or they were built by an ancient civilization that had at least our stage of development - tens of thousands years ago.


http://i16.photobuck...0nanoscrews.jpg

http://media.animevi...-nano_super.jpg



Edited by Jor-el, 08 July 2013 - 08:14 PM.

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-C. S. Lewis


#56    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:17 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 08 July 2013 - 04:23 AM, said:

Jorel's claims are nonsense and I've long given up bothering with him.  Belief in god because it gives life meaning or makes one happy or something along these lines holds no appeal to me.  Science necessarily trumps ancient myths.  Creation myths are useful as literature and as such serve our culture as part of its vocabulary of allusion, plus, (we talk about Adam and Eve and so on all the time), of course, as a root source of comparative religion.

Yes, a lot of people have stopped bothering with me... maybe because they do not actually have the answers to my questions... I posted a huge but actually very small part of a list of anomalies that science cannot explain, but keep on believing in the evolution of mankind if it makes you feel sciency...

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#57    Doug1o29

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:45 PM

View PostJor-el, on 08 July 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

You have got to be kidding....

If that was all available we wouldn't be having this discussion right now, we wouldn't even be talking of evolution...
No kidding.

Without good sound evidence to back up your claim, all you have is a fairy tale.  Your article on the Dorchester Vessel does not even attempt to explain how this item got there.  You assume that the vessel was incorporated into a conglomerate rock, but the more-likely explanation is that it was buried in the soil above the rock and unearthed by the blast.  You have to eliminate the ordinary before you can claim the extraordinary.  It would be at least interesting, to have this vessel available for study.

Sorry, Jor-el.  It doesn't hold water.
Doug

Edited by Doug1o29, 08 July 2013 - 09:55 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#58    Doug1o29

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:51 PM

Double post.

Edited by Doug1o29, 08 July 2013 - 09:53 PM.

If I have seen farther than other men, it is because I stood on the shoulders of giants. --Bernard de Chartres
The beginning of knowledge is the realization that one doesn't and cannot know everything.
Science is the father of knowledge, but opinion breeds ignorance. --Hippocrates
Ignorance is not an opinion. --Adam Scott

#59    Jor-el

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 09:56 PM

View PostDoug1o29, on 08 July 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

No kidding.

Without good sound evidence to back up your claim, all you have is a fairy tale.  Your article on the Dorchester Vessel does not even attempt to explain how this item got there.  You assume that the vessel was incorporated into a conglomerate rock, but the more-likely explanation is that it was buried in the soil above the rock and unearthed by the blast.

Sorry, Jor-el.  It doesn't hold water.
Doug

Yeah it doesn't hold water my foot.

Stick to your limited purview of what you know, if it is all you can allow to be real.

See... not everything is a fake... but I suppose it simply is too upsetting to be shown that your view  is "establishment" through and through.

Here see this one...

http://www.edconrad....coal/index.html

Edited by Jor-el, 08 July 2013 - 10:36 PM.

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"Man is not the centre. God does not exist for the sake of man. Man does not exist for his own sake."

-C. S. Lewis


#60    scowl

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Posted 08 July 2013 - 11:16 PM

The dates of some of of Jor-el's "finds" aren't as clear cut as he claims. For example they found another skeleton at the site of the Castenedolo skull and radiocarbon dating of it put it at less than a thousand years old. Also when you quote a 19th century newspaper article dated April 2nd describing an incredible discovery that has never been seen, you have to apply more than a little skepticism here.

Dating finds by stratigraphy is a difficult process, especially in areas prone to glaciers like North America. New stuff sometimes gets jumbled with old stuff and can easily be misinterpreted. Amateurs can easily misdate something.





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