4026 replies to this topic

[Abramelin]

Otharus already said that language wasn't standardized as it is now, so people would have written as they spoke.

If you had never been in an official school, getting language lessons (grammar and idiom), but knew how to write, you would probably have written "I don't know"' as 'dunno'. like I would have written 'kweetutniet' or 'kweenie' (-ee- = 'ey' like in hey, 'ie' ='ee' like in knee), instead of 'ik weet het niet'.

The OLB is full with these kind of shortenings or contractions or what the hell the proper word is in English.

[The Puzzler]

Thanks for explaining, I'm a bit tired, will look more tomorrow.
So that's why Ottema has 'them' in his sentence. Still, it might be open to variation imo.
I'll sleep on it.

[Abramelin]

I think you'd probably not do that bad here in the Netherlands, with what you've learned about the Dutch language throughout all these years.

==

Sleep on it?? You're even worse than I am, lol.

Sleep well.

+++


EDIT:

I wonder... in how many threads here on UM (or anywhere for that matter) do people wish each other a good night on a regular basis??


.

Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 05:23 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 09 October 2012 - 04:49 PM, said:

Thanks for explaining, I'm a bit tired, will look more tomorrow.
So that's why Ottema has 'them' in his sentence. Still, it might be open to variation imo.
I'll sleep on it.

Puzz, it's not just about finding similar words in other languages, but also about context.

You'll maybe find a word from Finnish, or Polish, or Basque, a word that could somewhat explain some or other word from the OLB, but do never forget that Frisian, Old Frisian, or the OLB language are very much and must certainly, Germanic languages.

If you seek a word from another language, look into these Old Germanic languages (like you did using Old Norse). And Latin is important too, even Phoenician, but only as second choice..

Even if the OLB is as old as it is purported to be according to many, you still have to take into account they must have adopted words from here and there, but I'd look to neighbouring languages first, and second, to Latin or Finnish. Or Phoenician.

==

I tend to to look at the present situation: we are being flooded by American/English movies, documentaries, sitcoms, soaps, and so on.

Do we see much French or Russian or Chinese movies here in the Netherlands? Almost never.

And even if we did, I doubt we would adopt many words from the foreign languages used in these non_Germanic/Anglo-Saxon movies and so on.

Youngsters here use expressions like 'cool' or 'wow' or 'sh1t', while we have have words like 'koel' (pronounced like 'cool' and meaning moderately cold), and 'schijt' for 'sh1t'.

And after I say 'goodbye' to a colleague or a friend or whoever for the weekend, I always say, "Prettig weekend"...

Or  in English, "Have a nice .... weekend"

Weekend in Dutch is 'weekeinde', but NO ONE uses that word here for ages !!

In short: people do adopt foreign words, but, unless there are already many foreigners living in your country, they will adopt words from closely related, and popular languages. They think that a somewhat different pronunciation of one of their own words sounds more 'cool' than the 'old-fashioned' pronunciation.

You won't catch me saying 'merde' (=French), instead of 'sh1t'.

But I love to say 'scheise' (German), and that's because it sounds better (= more bad) in my ears, better than 'sh1t', and it won't give you 'stars' on some forum, lol.


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Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 06:31 PM.

[Abramelin]

I feel like hammered right now. In Dutch that would be "gehamerd".... someone has hit you on the head with a hammer.

That 'someone' is Al Kohol, a good friend of mine.

Just saying.

[Knul]

Abramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 03:17 PM, said:

This is the sentence:

(Wralda's) Od trâd to-ra binna: aend nw bârdon ek twilif svna aend twilif togathera ek joltid twên. Thêrof send alle maenneska kêmen.

You say 'tora' is one word. Why? If I look at your screenshot of the MS, the word could be tradtora...

But it's not, it's 'to' and 'ra'.

You have downloaded (or have links to) several Old Frisian dictionaries. I think you will have to look for the dative, something like 'to-hjara'.

Knul, where are you.


Anyway, you can come up with words from China if you want, but now fit them into that sentence, and see if it works.

.

Here I am !  Unfortunately topics like Od have been discussed over and over again in this thread.  TORA = TO HJARA.

[Van Gorp]

Abramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 05:33 PM, said:

Puzz, it's not just about finding similar words in other languages, but also about context.

You'll maybe find a word from Finnish, or Polish, or Basque, a word that could somewhat explain some or other word from the OLB, but do never forget that Frisian, Old Frisian, or the OLB language are very much and must certainly, Germanic languages.

If you seek a word from another language, look into these Old Germanic languages (like you did using Old Norse). And Latin is important too, even Phoenician, but only as second choice..

Even if the OLB is as old as it is purported to be according to many, you still have to take into account they must have adopted words from here and there, but I'd look to neighbouring languages first, and second, to Latin or Finnish. Or Phoenician.

==

I tend to to look at the present situation: we are being flooded by American/English movies, documentaries, sitcoms, soaps, and so on.

Do we see much French or Russian or Chinese movies here in the Netherlands? Almost never.

And even if we did, I doubt we would adopt many words from the foreign languages used in these non_Germanic/Anglo-Saxon movies and so on.

Youngsters here use expressions like 'cool' or 'wow' or 'sh1t', while we have have words like 'koel' (pronounced like 'cool' and meaning moderately cold), and 'schijt' for 'sh1t'.

And after I say 'goodbye' to a colleague or a friend or whoever for the weekend, I always say, "Prettig weekend"...

Or  in English, "Have a nice .... weekend"

Weekend in Dutch is 'weekeinde', but NO ONE uses that word here for ages !!

In short: people do adopt foreign words, but, unless there are already many foreigners living in your country, they will adopt words from closely related, and popular languages. They think that a somewhat different pronunciation of one of their own words sounds more 'cool' than the 'old-fashioned' pronunciation.

You won't catch me saying 'merde' (=French), instead of 'sh1t'.

But I love to say 'scheise' (German), and that's because it sounds better (= more bad) in my ears, better than 'sh1t', and it won't give you 'stars' on some forum, lol.


.

And some words can come as a boomerang back into our language without truly realising where it originally came from.

We do sometimes say 'mi-erde !' in our dialect instead of **** or merde.  I think there is also a region the Mierden, can be swampy/****ty ground to walk in :-) See Ge-mert.
Schijten en scheiden are one act of seperating.  Do people kinda sh|t when they divorce, I dunno.

A week wijkt keer op keer, always after the day of celebrating the ritual.  We-ig en wieg, to and fro, op en neer telkens weer.  Gewikt en gewochen.

Houwen doen we natuurlijk met den houwe m'er.

[Abramelin]

Knul, on 09 October 2012 - 09:51 PM, said:

Here I am !  Unfortunately topics like Od have been discussed over and over again in this thread.  TORA = TO HJARA.

Thanks. So I was right after all.

But "TO HJARA" was only mentioned here:

http://www.unexplain...=184645&st=9495

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Edited by Abramelin, 09 October 2012 - 11:57 PM.

[The Puzzler]

What word are you getting from 'to hjara'?
to ra - meaning what?

their, them, to their, to her???

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

What word are you getting from 'to hjara'?
to ra - meaning what?

their, them, to their, to her???

To them

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 10 October 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

To them

ok but maybe it's 'to there - how would you use 'to them' in the sentence?  od trad tora binna

hi-ar-a

, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. thÁ-r-; E.: s. hÆ

http://www.koeblerge...ch/afries-H.pdf

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 12:24 AM.

[Abramelin]

The Puzzler, on 10 October 2012 - 12:21 AM, said:

ok but maybe it's 'to there - how would you use 'to them' in the sentence?  od trad tora binna

hi-ar-a

, afries., Pron.: Vw.: s. thÁ-r-; E.: s. hÆ

Abramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 04:32 PM, said:

I was in error in my former post, but I was quite good at parsing (Dutch: zinsontleding) in highschool, but that was 40 years ago, lol.


Vrlêden jêr haeb ik tham ut-er flod hred tolik mith thi aend thinra moder
Last year I saved them in the flood, as well as you and your mother
Verleden jaar heb ik hen uit-(d)er vloed gered, tegelijk met jou en jouw moeder

Vmbe hja navt to vrlysa haeb ik-ra vp wrlandisk pampyer wrskrêven.
In order not to lose them, I copied them on foreign paper.
Om hen niet te verliezen heb ik-er op overlands papier geschreven

In the first sentence THINRA stands for a word which is the same as the German DEINER, or YOUR.

In the second sentence RA stands for THEM (my -ER or ZE in modern Dutch)


So, WRALDA'S OD TRAD TORA BINNA = Wralda's od tred 'to them inside'/'inside of them'.

.

[The Puzzler]

Abramelin, on 09 October 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

I think you'd probably not do that bad here in the Netherlands, with what you've learned about the Dutch language throughout all these years.

==

Sleep on it?? You're even worse than I am, lol.

Sleep well.

+++


EDIT:

I wonder... in how many threads here on UM (or anywhere for that matter) do people wish each other a good night on a regular basis??


.

Not many and I appreciate it too Abe.
Even if Otharus won't speak to me, Knul ignores me and Alewyn is insulted by my religious comments, it's nice to always get that Goodnight from you.

[The Puzzler]

Isn't 'Wralda' in the sentence before - about his fruit and nuts?

[The Puzzler]

Them is written as tham in the OLB as well.

BUT: pronoun

their

• (possessive) Belonging to, from, of, or relating to, them.

their inside

their signifies ownership - their inside (the inside of them)

hja and hjara forms seemingly are used for their in the OLB text. The writings of Minno http://oeralinda.angelfire.com/#be

I like to take on the sentences literally, as they are written first, each word - then see what else can come from it, more like we'd speak now, referring to word order etc.

---------------------------------------------
Binna also has ther (same as hjara) as a word that is a prefix

b-in-n-a

121, afries., Adv.: nhd. binnen, innerhalb, drinnen; ne. inside (Adv.); ÜG.:

lat. infrõ W 2, W 4, W 5, L 9, L 23, AB (82, 6); Vw.: s. a-, thÁ-r-; Hw.: vgl. ae.

biinnan, mnl. binnen; Q.: R, S, B, E, H, W, W 2, W 4, W 5, L 9, L 23, AB (82,

6); W.: nfries. binne; L.: Hh 9b, Rh 641b

Edited by The Puzzler, 10 October 2012 - 01:28 AM.