The Copenhagen climate change summit

[questionmark]

TWO-hundred-and-fifty billion tonnes. That's the bottom line. If we are serious about avoiding dangerous climate change, 250,000 megatonnes is the maximum amount of carbon we can put into the atmosphere. Keep going at current rates and we will have used up that ration in 20 years.

The challenge for delegates at the week-long meeting in Denmark's capital is to agree on ways of ensuring we do not exceed it - ever.

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[Bullseye]

Why do they keep going on about "Carbon",when they used to say CO2 ?.Totally different things !.

Why is it now Climate Change,when it used to be Global Warming ?.

Why have temperatures not gone up for the last 10 years ?.

Why is the Met Office refusing to release its historic temp data ?.

Why is there a greater ice extent in Antarctica today than for many years ?.

Why does no one check this stuff out themselves,most of the data is available online,you just have to search for it.

Alternatively, we could all just believe the politicians,they always tell the truth !,and of course those famous "computer models" for climate change from the people who can't get next weeks weather correct but can forecast 20,40 or 60 years ahead !.

[questionmark]

Why do they keep going on about "Carbon",when they used to say CO2 ?.Totally different things !.

Why is it now Climate Change,when it used to be Global Warming ?.

Why have temperatures not gone up for the last 10 years ?.

Why is the Met Office refusing to release its historic temp data ?.

Why is there a greater ice extent in Antarctica today than for many years ?.

Why does no one check this stuff out themselves,most of the data is available online,you just have to search for it.

Alternatively, we could all just believe the politicians,they always tell the truth !,and of course those famous "computer models" for climate change from the people who can't get next weeks weather correct but can forecast 20,40 or 60 years ahead !.

You should look up what CO₂ actually is before spewing crap. Or at least not put it in the first sentence of your post...makes people not read the rest.

Edited November 5, 2009 by questionmark

[Wickian]

You should look up what CO₂ actually is before spewing crap. Or at least not put it in the firts sentence of your post...makes people not read the rest.

Well to be fair, CO2 and carbon are two different things. One is a base element and the other is a gas comprised of two elements.

Calling a gas by the name "Carbon" is technically wrong.

Edited November 5, 2009 by Wickian

[questionmark]

Well to be fair, CO2 and carbon are too different things. One is a base element and the other is a gas comprised of two elements.

Calling a gas by the name "Carbon" is technically wrong.

Right, but the problem is not carbon dioxide appearing from nowhere but by the combustion of carbon...and that carbon ends up bound in the atmosphere bound to oxygen... oops but it IS carbon... time out ...hmmm...

[The Silver Thong]

I said this in another thread as some think Obama will not be there. He will be there and I'll bet 5 bucks on it

[questionmark]

I said this in another thread as some think Obama will not be there. He will be there and I'll bet 5 bucks on it

Only if there is a chance for an agreement...the last thing he wants is to be associated with a failure. He will be there for the second round for sure, whenever there is an agreement. But that won't be in Copenhagen this December (as far as I can see it).

[Mattshark]

Why do they keep going on about "Carbon",when they used to say CO2 ?.Totally different things !.

Combustion of carbon gives what?

Why is it now Climate Change,when it used to be Global Warming ?.

It is a name that prevents confusion from people who think it means every point of the planet is warming.

Why have temperatures not gone up for the last 10 years ?.

Yes it has, that is myth.

Why is the Met Office refusing to release its historic temp data ?.

Have you asked them?

Why is there a greater ice extent in Antarctica today than for many years ?.

Is there? How about the fact that while some of it is cooler than average quite a lot (just over half) is warmer than average. How about the NSIDC showing a declining Arctic too.

Why does no one check this stuff out themselves,most of the data is available online,you just have to search for it.

Why don't people use scientific literature as a source instead of political sites.

Alternatively, we could all just believe the politicians,they always tell the truth !,and of course those famous "computer models" for climate change from the people who can't get next weeks weather correct but can forecast 20,40 or 60 years ahead !.

Or we could use scientific literature and evidence and learn to tell the difference between weather and climate, that last bit is a basic that you might want to get a grip on.

[Bullseye]

LMFAO, I can see some of you have REALLY looked into this !,a bit of understanding of basic chemistry would help,enjoy your future taxes on this huge con,I'd love to come back to this in 10 or 20 years,unfortunately I will probably not be alive then,but hey,I can look up and have a really good laugh !.

[SQLserver]

LMFAO, I can see some of you have REALLY looked into this !,a bit of understanding of basic chemistry would help,enjoy your future taxes on this huge con,I'd love to come back to this in 10 or 20 years,unfortunately I will probably not be alive then,but hey,I can look up and have a really good laugh !.

I seriously hope you aren't being serious.

[The Silver Thong]

Only if there is a chance for an agreement...the last thing he wants is to be associated with a failure. He will be there for the second round for sure, whenever there is an agreement. But that won't be in Copenhagen this December (as far as I can see it).

Damn I think I just lost 5 bucks Q lol. That does make sence hmmmm

[Mattshark]

LMFAO, I can see some of you have REALLY looked into this !,a bit of understanding of basic chemistry would help,enjoy your future taxes on this huge con,I'd love to come back to this in 10 or 20 years,unfortunately I will probably not be alive then,but hey,I can look up and have a really good laugh !.

What like the fact that CO2 is a proven greenhouse gas

A basic understanding of the carbon cycle

A basic understanding that we are exponentially increase CO2 output

A basic understanding that we are losing carbon sinks

Or you could just spout debunked rubbish that goes against the evidence.

[Bullseye]

AGW has become almost a religion to some,please just do some basic research for yourselves,the World Weird Interwebs can help you with this ...stuff..please dont just believe what you are told,look it up for yourselves,I remember in the 70's (a cooling period) some of the same "scientists"that are now banging on about AGW were saying we were heading for a new iceage.I do actually know a few "scientists"(I even helped one get her MA in chemistry !) personally,their opinion on AGW ?,"Absolute b*llocks", "If you want funding,just mention AGW", "It's not science,it's just bad computer modeling".I guess most posters here are in their teens,twenties maybe early thirties,whereas I'm an old senile bugger who's in their 50's and has seen all sorts of weather, "Oh I remember when........no,sorry I'm too decrepid to have an opinion on anything in the modern world".Do the research and then think for yourselves,this applies to EVERYTHING !.Like I said before this will not be sorted out before I'm dead,but the most horrible thing is that when people finally realise it's a great big con,will they ever trust "science" again ?.

[Mattshark]

AGW has become almost a religion to some,please just do some basic research for yourselves,the World Weird Interwebs can help you with this ...stuff..please dont just believe what you are told,look it up for yourselves,I remember in the 70's (a cooling period) some of the same "scientists"that are now banging on about AGW were saying we were heading for a new iceage.I do actually know a few "scientists"(I even helped one get her MA in chemistry !) personally,their opinion on AGW ?,"Absolute b*llocks", "If you want funding,just mention AGW", "It's not science,it's just bad computer modeling".I guess most posters here are in their teens,twenties maybe early thirties,whereas I'm an old senile bugger who's in their 50's and has seen all sorts of weather, "Oh I remember when........no,sorry I'm too decrepid to have an opinion on anything in the modern world".Do the research and then think for yourselves,this applies to EVERYTHING !.Like I said before this will not be sorted out before I'm dead,but the most horrible thing is that when people finally realise it's a great big con,will they ever trust "science" again ?.

Really, do you remember that Global warming is a product of the early 70's and countered the 1 paper predicting cooling (which was not accepted by the scientific community). You are talking nonsense and you have done nothing but back up your claims with debunked arguments.

I doubt you helped anyone get MA (or much more likely an MSc) in Chemistry.

You don't even understand the subject at a basic level nor do you understand science.

Don't confuse media with science.

Edited November 9, 2009 by Mattshark

[Siara]

LMFAO, I can see some of you have REALLY looked into this !

No, I suspect he hasn't "REALLY looked into it". This is run of the mill science that even English majors like me understand. I'm sure Mattshark learned this in the UK's equivalent of high school and didn't have to make any big effort to look it up.

[Bullseye]

OK,I'm sorry,all politicians are in on this huge great scam,oh,sorry,fact (!),and we all know how honest politicians are ?.Have you noticed how much warmer it's got in the last 10 years ?,(me neither),a few mild winters and quite a few cold summers,obviously nothing to do with the Sun then ?.The fact that Sun Cycle 24 has not really started yet,but is well overdue is obviously nothing to do with it ?.The predicted increase in hurricanes in North America is happening,oh,no it's not,they've got record cold temps for this time of year !,sea level rises are happening,oh no,wait, no they're not,the Antarctic is melting,oh no it's not the ice is at it's greatest extent for 30 years,ok, glaciers are at their lowest extent in modern history ?,well not including the Roman period and the Medieval warming period,but apart from that ?.So,anyway AGW must be happening 'cos I got 2 gallons of wine from my grapevine this year down here in East Sussex,and damn it's as good as (almost)Chatuea Neufe De Pape (sp)!.So that proves it!.But seriously folks,Sun Cycle 24 is not happening yet,keep an eye on it,you may need thermal undies !.And remember, politicians ALWAYS tell the truth !.

[questionmark]

OK,I'm sorry,all politicians are in on this huge great scam,oh,sorry,fact (!),and we all know how honest politicians are ?.Have you noticed how much warmer it's got in the last 10 years ?,(me neither),a few mild winters and quite a few cold summers,obviously nothing to do with the Sun then ?.The fact that Sun Cycle 24 has not really started yet,but is well overdue is obviously nothing to do with it ?.The predicted increase in hurricanes in North America is happening,oh,no it's not,they've got record cold temps for this time of year !,sea level rises are happening,oh no,wait, no they're not,the Antarctic is melting,oh no it's not the ice is at it's greatest extent for 30 years,ok, glaciers are at their lowest extent in modern history ?,well not including the Roman period and the Medieval warming period,but apart from that ?.So,anyway AGW must be happening 'cos I got 2 gallons of wine from my grapevine this year down here in East Sussex,and damn it's as good as (almost)Chatuea Neufe De Pape (sp)!.So that proves it!.But seriously folks,Sun Cycle 24 is not happening yet,keep an eye on it,you may need thermal undies !.And remember, politicians ALWAYS tell the truth !.

Could you please give some hard evidence instead of some political badly written ranting?

And please inform yourself:

Antarctica’s sea ice increasing due to ozone hole, but scientists predict global warming will catch-up

Why Antarctic ice is growing despite global warming

Antarctic ice cover 'increasing due to hole in ozone layer'

[Bullseye]

Nope,can't be arsed,if you think that increasing ice is due to AGW .It really has become a religion to some !.Give it 10 or 20 years,who will have any faith in science then ?.It will be the same thing as the W2K Bug,Sars, Swine Flu etc..

[questionmark]

Nope,can't be arsed,if you think that increasing ice is due to AGW .It really has become a religion to some !.Give it 10 or 20 years,who will have any faith in science then ?.It will be the same thing as the W2K Bug,Sars, Swine Flu etc..

Would then please put a warning note on your posts? Something like: Attention, uninformed rant, disregard as such?

Thank you.

[Dimension_X]

This is what i found today on timesofindia.indiatimes.com

UNITED NATIONS: Stressing that failed action on climate change could have catastrophic consequences, UN Chief Ban Ki-moon has asked the United

States to take a leading role in ensuring a successful outcome of the Copenhagen conference next month.

"No country is more important than the United States in resolving this climate change issue," Ban said, after meeting with Congressional leaders and Washington's top brass including US Senators John Kerry, Richard Lugar and Joe Lieberman.

"All eyes of the world are looking to the United States and to this august body, the US Senate," he said, adding that the Copenhagen Climate Conference should yield "a robust, global agreement that can serve as a foundation for a climate treaty."

Around 192 countries that will meet in the Danish capital next month are expected to hammer out a climate treaty to succeed the Kyoto Protocol since the first commitment period under this treaty ends in 2012.

Ban underlined that battling climate change would involve economic costs to all nations in the short-term but delaying action would leave all of humanity suffering in the long-run.

What do you think?

[questionmark]

What do you think?

Not all places run the same risks, but economists are sure that inaction will be by far more expensive than doing something, even if the something is only enough to spread the effects over centuries instead of decades.

[Mattshark]

Nope,can't be arsed,if you think that increasing ice is due to AGW .It really has become a religion to some !.Give it 10 or 20 years,who will have any faith in science then ?.It will be the same thing as the W2K Bug,Sars, Swine Flu etc..

Yeah! Your too good for evidence!

May as well spout nonsense and show yourself up instead!

[Bullseye]

Attention,uninformed rant,disregard as such !

OK,here's some (Janet and John) sites for you all to be going on with,

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/13/where-have-all-the-sunspots-gone/

http://www.climatedepot.com/

Obivously they are in the pay of "The Big Oil/Energy/Whatever Companies" ,as am I(still waiting for the cheque though !),unlike Mr Pachauri the head of the IPCC,who was a railway engineer,he then got his Ph.D in Industrial Engineering and Economics,so very well up on Climatology then !,strangely many on the IPCC are not actually Climatologists ?.As I've said before when Global Warming was changed to Climate change,that should have got people thinking,but perhaps too subtle for most to notice ?.So we can all look forward to higher "Green taxes",bloody awful lightbulbs (that contain mercury,you wont be able to chuck them in the bin,they have to be specially recycled)that make the room seem dimmer when you switch them on.Oh,I give up,everything thats reported in the MSM is true,theres no political agenda there,lets all just go along with it,all the AGW believers are going to win the day,I believe in AGW,it's all true,puppies are dying,polar bears are stranded on iceflows ("whats that Sooty ?,the vast majority of polar bear populations are increasing ?,don't be silly Sooty,we all know that's not true").

Warning,uninformed rant,disregard as such !. I've seen the advert on TV about the little puppie drowning,so it must be true !

Spouting nonsense and showing myself up !.

http://xkcd.com/386/

[Perdition]

I don't know about you guys but here in southern Arizona its definitely much hotter this year than any other year. It would be cold by now but nope, we are still in the 80-90 degree area, not only that but our monsoon season was almost non existent.

I was also in san diego for the summer and it was burning hot there, temperatures actually reached 100 when I was there.

[Mattshark]

Attention,uninformed rant,disregard as such !

OK,here's some (Janet and John) sites for you all to be going on with,

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/02/13/where-have-all-the-sunspots-gone/

http://www.climatedepot.com/

Obivously they are in the pay of "The Big Oil/Energy/Whatever Companies" ,as am I(still waiting for the cheque though !),unlike Mr Pachauri the head of the IPCC,who was a railway engineer,he then got his Ph.D in Industrial Engineering and Economics,so very well up on Climatology then !,strangely many on the IPCC are not actually Climatologists ?.As I've said before when Global Warming was changed to Climate change,that should have got people thinking,but perhaps too subtle for most to notice ?.So we can all look forward to higher "Green taxes",bloody awful lightbulbs (that contain mercury,you wont be able to chuck them in the bin,they have to be specially recycled)that make the room seem dimmer when you switch them on.Oh,I give up,everything thats reported in the MSM is true,theres no political agenda there,lets all just go along with it,all the AGW believers are going to win the day,I believe in AGW,it's all true,puppies are dying,polar bears are stranded on iceflows ("whats that Sooty ?,the vast majority of polar bear populations are increasing ?,don't be silly Sooty,we all know that's not true").

Warning,uninformed rant,disregard as such !. I've seen the advert on TV about the little puppie drowning,so it must be true !

Spouting nonsense and showing myself up !.

http://xkcd.com/386/

Maybe you should use better sources. Climate depot is from CFACT. CFACT are funded by Exxonmobile, Chevron and Chrysler. So basically you are rejecting good science for corporations with vested interests.

Secondly, A drop in global temperatures between 2008 from 2007! It is one year. Talk about meaningless.

You should these paper on the effects of the sun on global climate, published in on e of the worlds top journals, far, far better source than your rubbish

Recent oppositely directed trends in solar

climate forcings and the global mean surface

air temperature

And here are some more for you to have a look through:

Ecological responses to recent climate change

Widespread amphibian extinctions from epidemic disease driven by global warming

Acceleration of global warming due to carbon-cycle feedbacks in a coupled climate model

NSIDC:2008 Year-in-Review for the Arctic

Attribution of polar warming to human influence

Antarctic ice shelf 'hanging by a thread'

Even Antarctica is now feeling the heat of climate change

Europe to feel the heat of climate change

Climate change: A guide for the perplexed