Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * * * 1 votes

Why were Jews 'chosen people of god' ?


  • Please log in to reply
83 replies to this topic

#16    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,641 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 17 September 2012 - 10:48 AM

Galatians 3:6

Abraham serves as an example. He believed God, and that faith was regarded by God to be his approval of Abraham.    
Sometimes it really is that simple.....

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#17    CommunitarianKevin

CommunitarianKevin

    Fact Corrector

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,279 posts
  • Joined:10 Mar 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Apple Valley, MN. Wrestling Capital of the U.S.

  • Now we know that heedless self-interests is bad economics.-FDR

Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:37 PM

For the same reason I am the star of my autobiography.

My screen names may change. My real name is Kevin. You can call me that in the threads...
My "about me" page...
http://www.unexplain...showentry=24860
http://athans-athansblog.blogspot.com/
https://twitter.com/KevinAthans

#18    The Gremlin

The Gremlin

    Gnawing at the ankles of Falsehood

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,988 posts
  • Joined:19 Feb 2007
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Cymru

  • sniffing the finger of truth

Posted 17 September 2012 - 01:28 PM

If we consider that God's Will is anything that he appears to sanction by not punishing it......

then The Israelites were chosen to go to the Holy Land......Since they had the 'might' to stay there.
Then they were punished, and it was God's Will that they were ejected from there various times.......

Since they are returned, and have the power to cling on to Israel, then it must be God's Will that they do that.....

Are they God's Chosen people, preferred by Him over all other cultural/social groups?
NO, that's just what a primitive and tribal polytheistic people thought about the god that eventually became their primitive patron deity......

.....most Patron deities (as the name implies) have favourate peoples.

This primitive patron deity, has undergone the transformation that comes with theological and metaphysical development that comes with growing social sophistication.

Many of these primitive notions are discarded and viewed as metaphor.

I rarely talk about such things but I once shoveled 18 tons of material in 11 min-
utes. It was under ideal conditions which allowed use of the legs and gravity
but I know no one who could have matched it and I do know work
.
...Cladking
If you were a dragon wouldn't you rather eat fat, alocohol fill, Nordic giants, than stringy little Chinamen?   Draconic Chronicler.
You claim you do research and then disregard the fact the Pyramids were built by God, which is why no man-made computer can replicate it.  The Interpreter

#19    scowl

scowl

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 4,111 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 17 September 2012 - 04:47 PM

Because God wanted drama!

The Pentateuch is full of murder, betrayal, incest, rape, trickery, and God generally backing the most conniving characters like Jacob. God loved that stuff.

If God had picked a bunch of clear-headed obedient people who followed his orders to the letter and gave him the love he constantly demanded by threatening them, what a boring story it would have been! Instead He picked a bunch of clueless idiots who constantly whined about everything, who acted like miracles happen on their own, and constantly wished out loud that they were still slaves in Egypt. God had a great time blasting them with fire, scaring them with earthquakes, killing them off with plagues, and effectively beating them like abused pets.

Even when they behaved themselves, God's trigger finger would get itchy and he'd flip out on trivial things. For example he wasted two of Aaron's sons with fire because they messed up the sacrifice procedure.


#20    rimbaudelaire

rimbaudelaire

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Joined:30 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:City of Brotherly Love

Posted 18 September 2012 - 06:58 PM

Question:
I have long been uncomfortable with the concept of the "Chosen People". To suggest that as Jews we are somehow closer to G-d than all other nations smacks of arrogance, elitism, and racial prejudice. How is that any different to anti-Semitism?
Sincerely,
Margaret

Answer:
Dear Margaret,
That is a fantastic question -- a question that could only come from someone who is chosen. Allow me to explain.
In the Jewish understanding, chosenness leads not to arrogance, but rather to humility. If it were some human king that chose us to be his special people, then your assumption would be correct -- we would become elitists. When a mortal power shows favoritism towards a subject, that subject will become more arrogant as a result -- the closer you are to the king, the more significant you are, and the more significant you are the higher respect you feel you deserve.

But we were chosen by G-d. And the closer you are to G-d, the more you sense your insignificance. While being buddy-buddy with a human leader inflates your ego, a relationship with G-d bursts your selfish bubble. Because G-d is an infinite being, and all delusions of petty self-importance fall away when you stand before infinity. Being close with G-d demands introspection and self-improvement, not smugness.

This is the idea of the Chosen People -- a nation of individuals who have been given the opportunity to sense G-d's closeness, hear His truth and relay his message to the world. All agree that it was the Jews that introduced the world to monotheism and a system of ethics and morals that has shaped the modern view of life and its purpose. And it is the survival of Judaism to this day that attests to the eternal value of this system.

To say that this is ethnocentric is absurd for one simple reason: anyone from any ethnic background can convert to Judaism and become chosen. Jewish chosenness is not a gene, it is a state of the soul. Anyone wishing to take it upon themselves is welcome -- as long as they are ready to have their bubble burst.

So the arrogant person is not acting chosen. The true test of chosenness is how humble you are. You, Margaret, have passed this test with flying colors. Your humility is so deep, it doesn't allow you to accept that you are chosen. While most other religious groups are quite comfortable claiming that they are the best, we Jews will do anything to say that we are nothing special. Now that's what I call a Chosen People!

By Rabbi Aron Moss
http://www.chabad.or...osen-People.htm


#21    GoSC

GoSC

    HOSEA 1:10; 2:23

  • Member
  • 2,615 posts
  • Joined:26 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Silver Mountain

Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:50 AM

rimbaudelaire,

Is it "worthy to be chosen?"

or is it "chosen to be worthy?"

Hmm...

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#22    Mystic Crusader

Mystic Crusader

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,057 posts
  • Joined:22 Apr 2008
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Arizona

  • "What would you rather be, a bus driver, or a super terrorist?"

Posted 19 September 2012 - 04:53 PM

Again:

http://en.wikipedia....tive_narcissism

Drunk with blood..
Dangerous cult leaders
Jewish gematria # 1162:
Who is like God
The epitome of evil

#23    scowl

scowl

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 4,111 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:12 PM

View Postrimbaudelaire, on 18 September 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

"To say that this is ethnocentric is absurd for one simple reason: anyone from any ethnic background can convert to Judaism and become chosen. Jewish chosenness is not a gene, it is a state of the soul. Anyone wishing to take it upon themselves is welcome -- as long as they are ready to have their bubble burst."

This is all feelgood modern Judaism. I can't think of any cases in the Hebrew Bible where non-Jews were converted. Whenever the Israelites conquered people, they immediately killed their men, children and adult women and optionally enslaved their virgin females. The conquests of Joshua proudly declare that not a single person was left alive after he was done. Even in one case where a city chose to surrender (through trickery) and the Israelites didn't butcher them, the people were enslaved, not converted. Enslaved gentiles were far more useful to the Israelites than converted Jews.

There's one example that especially bugs me. When Rahab helps Joshua's spies in Jericho because she had heard of their wonderful god, they do the honor of not killing her after the city falls but there's nothing about them converting her to Judaism even though it sounded like that's exactly when she wanted.

Have I overlooked a case where the Chosen People converted pagans instead of just killing or enslaving them?


#24    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,641 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 19 September 2012 - 05:59 PM

Part of the reason I became such a die hard supporter of Israel and the Jews - regardless their behaviors at times - is because I saw a very tiny small fraction of 1% of the human population on the planet hated with breathtaking vehemence down the centuries.  Blamed for every imaginable woe of mankind.  It continues to this day.  Fewer than 8 million people in the State of Israel are seen as the primary problem facing the UN today - really?  
My imperfect understanding of God's choice of Abraham centered on his faith and nothing more.  He was in no other way remarkable except that he believed and acted upon those beliefs by doing what he perceived to be the will of God.  If one discounts the idea of a god then the argument is moot of course.  But a thinking person might look to history and ponder the survival of this family of people and their survival - including their language - over so many centuries and so much persecution.  I think they were chosen to show that God expects faith and obedience.  For every instance of wealth that has been accumulated there are at least two stories of torture, death and diaspora.  I believe in God.  I also believe His word and those who hate the Jew and heap slanders and lies on them - it will have consequences.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...

#25    rimbaudelaire

rimbaudelaire

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Joined:30 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:City of Brotherly Love

Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:37 PM

View PostAmbush Bug, on 19 September 2012 - 04:50 AM, said:

rimbaudelaire,

Is it "worthy to be chosen?"

or is it "chosen to be worthy?"

Hmm...

Great question. In my 'humble' opinion, I'd argue that it's the Torah's authors' intent that both apply equally. The story of Abraham depicts G-d showing that Abraham exudes both, as does the story of Job.


#26    rimbaudelaire

rimbaudelaire

    Alien Embryo

  • Member
  • Pip
  • 110 posts
  • Joined:30 Apr 2012
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:City of Brotherly Love

Posted 19 September 2012 - 08:56 PM

View Postscowl, on 19 September 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

This is all feelgood modern Judaism. I can't think of any cases in the Hebrew Bible where non-Jews were converted. Whenever the Israelites conquered people, they immediately killed their men, children and adult women and optionally enslaved their virgin females. The conquests of Joshua proudly declare that not a single person was left alive after he was done. Even in one case where a city chose to surrender (through trickery) and the Israelites didn't butcher them, the people were enslaved, not converted. Enslaved gentiles were far more useful to the Israelites than converted Jews.

There's one example that especially bugs me. When Rahab helps Joshua's spies in Jericho because she had heard of their wonderful god, they do the honor of not killing her after the city falls but there's nothing about them converting her to Judaism even though it sounded like that's exactly when she wanted.

Have I overlooked a case where the Chosen People converted pagans instead of just killing or enslaving them?

Jews don't proselytize. If anyone wants to convert to Judaism, they are welcome. Read the Book of Ruth.


#27    regeneratia

regeneratia

    Government Agent

  • Member
  • 3,959 posts
  • Joined:20 Jun 2010
  • Gender:Female
  • Location:All my posts are my own views, my own perceptions. Will not be finding links for why I think the way I do.

  • It is time to put the big guns down now, Little Boys!

Posted 19 September 2012 - 09:48 PM

They may well be the chosen people of a god. But I rejected that particular god long, long ago. What a horrible god!!

Truth is such a rare quality, a stranger so seldom met in this civilization of fraud, that it is never received freely, but must fight its way into the world
Professor Hilton Hotema
(quote from THE BIBLE FRAUD)

Robert Heinlein: SECRECY IS THE HALLMARK OF TYRANNY!

#28    scowl

scowl

    Government Agent

  • Closed
  • 4,111 posts
  • Joined:17 Nov 2010
  • Gender:Not Selected

Posted 19 September 2012 - 11:17 PM

View Postrimbaudelaire, on 19 September 2012 - 08:56 PM, said:

Jews don't proselytize. If anyone wants to convert to Judaism, they are welcome. Read the Book of Ruth.

Ruth was a Moabite, not a Jew. She married a Jew but remained a Moabite. She chose to stop worshiping Baal (if she ever did) but she was never converted to Judaism nor was anyone in the Book of Ruth unless I'm overlooking a major plot point here.

Oddly, intermarriage was clearly forbidden in chapter 34 of Exodus. Moses made it clear to everyone that if Jewish men started marrying pagan women, they'd turn away from the Lord and the faith of his Chosen People would dilute. There are Israelite/Moabite marriages all through the Book of Ruth yet God doesn't get pissed like He did in the past.

No one even gets murdered in this Book -- they all die natural deaths! Does it even belong in the Bible? :D


#29    GoSC

GoSC

    HOSEA 1:10; 2:23

  • Member
  • 2,615 posts
  • Joined:26 Jan 2012
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Silver Mountain

Posted 20 September 2012 - 03:35 AM

View Postand then, on 19 September 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:

Part of the reason I became such a die hard supporter of Israel and the Jews - regardless their behaviors at times - is because I saw a very tiny small fraction of 1% of the human population on the planet hated with breathtaking vehemence down the centuries.  Blamed for every imaginable woe of mankind.  It continues to this day.  Fewer than 8 million people in the State of Israel are seen as the primary problem facing the UN today - really?  
My imperfect understanding of God's choice of Abraham centered on his faith and nothing more.  He was in no other way remarkable except that he believed and acted upon those beliefs by doing what he perceived to be the will of God.  If one discounts the idea of a god then the argument is moot of course.  But a thinking person might look to history and ponder the survival of this family of people and their survival - including their language - over so many centuries and so much persecution.  I think they were chosen to show that God expects faith and obedience.  For every instance of wealth that has been accumulated there are at least two stories of torture, death and diaspora.  I believe in God.  I also believe His word and those who hate the Jew and heap slanders and lies on them - it will have consequences.

You left one key ingrediant, God expects justice! They were also chosen to show that God expects justice and if the Jews werent upholding and representing justice and being socially conscience they fell under judgment. "Make straight the way for the Lord." and again "Let every valley be lifted up, And every mountain and hill be made low; And let the rough ground become a plain, And the rugged terrain a broad valley." and once more "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

"And do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham."

"I charge thee in the sight of God, who giveth life to all things, and of Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed the good confession; that thou keep the commandment, without spot, without reproach, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in its own times he shall show, WHO IS THE BLESSED AND ONLY POTENTE, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS; who only hath immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honor and power eternal. Amen" (I Tim 6:13-16).

#30    and then

and then

    Abyssus Abyssum Invocat

  • Member
  • 13,641 posts
  • Joined:15 Dec 2011
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Land's End

  • Because what came before never seems enough...

Posted 20 September 2012 - 07:07 AM

View PostAmbush Bug, on 20 September 2012 - 03:35 AM, said:

You left one key ingrediant, God expects justice! They were also chosen to show that God expects justice and if the Jews werent upholding and representing justice and being socially conscience they fell under judgment. "Make straight the way for the Lord." and again "Let every valley be lifted up, And every mountain and hill be made low; And let the rough ground become a plain, And the rugged terrain a broad valley." and once more "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen."

"And do not suppose that you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham for our father'; for I say to you that from these stones God is able to raise up children to Abraham."
And you, in your infinite wisdom, feel God is taking too long to exact justice?  Tell me, Bug, where is the justice for them?  Who is liable to repay THEM for the lost centuries, the thefts and murders, the persecution of never having a place safe from the hate?  Are they less human?  God, rest assured, will have His justice.  But He has said in His word that He will also require it of everyone who has persecuted His chosen as well.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users