Who has created the best rock music?

[saucy]

This debate is for all of you classic rock lovers like me. Where has the best rock and roll come from, Europe or the U.S. Both countries have their share of famous rockers. Europe has had the Beatles, Pink Floyd, Def Leppard, and many others. The U.S. has Led Zeppelin, Van Halen and many others. Rock fans unite and debate this unique topic. It's a typical debate. Post if you want to take part and I'll give you rules and who will go first. When you post, tell me which side you want to take. Thanks and good luck.

Edited August 18, 2004 by saucy

[saucy]

I give this two more days before deleting it

[ames2787]

I'll take part if it helps

I don't know huge amounts about rock music, but I know enough to give this a crack.

I'll fight on either side Europe or America

Ames

[saucy]

Awesome....one more person is needed please!

[ames2787]

Maybe I will have to do the schizo act and debate against myself tee hee

[jpalz]

I'll take part on it. I don't know very much of music, but I do enjoy it a lot, and it's gonna be my first debate!!!!

[ames2787]

Just to let you know that I won't be able to take part in the debate til after I come back from a music festival. I will be back on Monday.

You can carry on the debate with someone else if you don't want to wait that long, although I will have a better idea of what to debate on as it's a music festival I am going to, but I won't be offended if you carry on without me

Thanks,

Ames

[jpalz]

Don't worry. I also have to start on Monday (go skiing you know)

[ames2787]

OK then, it is agreed we will start the debate from Monday

I'm glad you're cool with it as I've never taken part in a debate before on here so it should be fun

Ames

[saucy]

Monday's cool. Here are the rules. You each have to deliver an opening statement, followed by four body posts and conclude it with your rebuttal. Nobody said which side they want to take, so with a flip of the coin, I got Ames debating for American rock and jpalz for European rock. Good luck!

[ames2787]

I just hope I can do it justice...

P.S. That was not my opening statement lol

[jpalz]

Introduction

John, a student, 21, is on the subway going to the University. It's his final exam, and he has to relax somehow. He is sweating of the nerves he has, and the old lady sitting next to him is looking at him as if he were some kind of criminal. He only smiles.

Maria, a nanny, 45, is preparing the breakfast for the children of the home she's working in.

Curt, businessman, 34, is on his way to work when he has to stop because of a red light. After seconds of swearing he decides to turn on the radio.

These three lives, who have no connection and are destinated not to meet each other forever, have, however, a single connection: they love The Beatles, and that's why they are all listening to the special that Radio 1 is giving about them. Yep, enjoying every single song, from "Love Me Do" to "Let it Be".

From the beggining man has always enjoyed the sounds of music. From the Greeks (and even before!!!!) to the present day, people has vibrated with what in the beggining are just simple sounds connected in a special way, just like the three persons I mentioned at the beggining.

It's the most popular art nowadays, and the easiest one to get (people don't watch a movie in the car, imagine what would happen if they did and, besides, they don't have two hours everyday to watch one ). It also has that special ability of creating emotions, to bring memories of our lives with just a couple of instruments. Our first kiss (or lack of ), our prom, our friends, our happy and unhappy moments... all those things come to our minds with a few accords, in a very subtle way, but once that it's stuck in your head it doesn't delete with time. I remember that when I listened to "Aqualung" by Jethro Tull last week, she started to sing like a maniac and said that she listened to it while she was on her way to school. She stopped singing there -fortunately, because I didn't think the windows could hold any longer- .

That explains the huge success of the radios, of the ENORMOUS industry behind it. Unfortunately, they don't always have good taste, and are only atracted by the $ symbol, which is why we have got Britney Spears and all that teen-pop stuff.

Anyways... we all have different tastes in music. It's natural, unevitable, because I love, say, Slipknot, but my grandma would have a heart-attack if she listened to "Duality". It is a very broad subject, but between all kinds of music there is one who deserves a lot of respect, because it is the greatest music EVER (in my humble opinion): classic, 60-70's rock. Really good geniuses have come out of that period: John Lennon, Paul McCartney, Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Freddie Mercury, Roger Waters, Ozzy Ozburne (before he became the wacky star of an MTV reality-show), Jimmy Page and so on so forth. The list is too big to mention them all. And between fans of classic rock there has always been a topic of discussion: which was the greatest group ever? And, even better: which country had the best groups? That is because both the US and Europe had amazing singers and groups during that time, so it has always been a very good discussion.

However, in my opinion, Europe had the best groups ever, from The Beatles to Led Zeppelin to Queen to Iron Maiden, because even though rock started in the US with Elvis Presley, in was in Europe where it perfected, and where the biggest masterpieces came, even influenciating the US rockers, which tried to mimick it, but without reaching it. Has anyone made a better song than Stairway to Heaven or Imagine? No. At least not in the US.

So, that's why I say that the greatest rock music ever came from Europe, not the US

[ames2787]

Introduction.

To say that European Rock Music is better than U.S. Rock is absolutely the most ridiculous thing you could ever say. The simple reason is that European Rock Music would not exist if it wasn't for the U.S.

It is extremely likely that if it wasn't for Bill Haley, Elvis and the like that people like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin etc would even have had the courage to start up their own type of rock, they probably wouldn't have even thought about it. The simple fact is that U.S. rock made it ok for people to like that kind of music.

Today, U.S. Rock music continues to be the biggest selling. How many European Rock acts are big across the world today? I think you would find it hard to name more than 10.

People like Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, and even people like Blink 182 are huge all across the world and European rock acts of today can't seem to replicate this.

It seems to be that Europeans crafted their rock based on the U.S. and had their glory days, the Beatles, Stones, Queen etc but they have failed to keep up the tradition and can only offer poppy rock such as the dire Busted and their clones McFly.

When the Europeans can match the commercial success and quality of U.S. Rock Music then I will be willing to back down on my argument. Until then, U.S. Rock Music will remain the best.

Ames

[BurnSide]

TheJesterRace, i have deleted your post. Formal debates are only for the debaters who have requested to take part, specifically in this forum Ames and Jpalz. Sorry.

[Magikman]

saucy - Burnside,

It would appear neither participant is familiar with how this debate should proceed. I've had to delete yet another post by a regular poster, I'm going to lock this down until you get a chance to ascertain whether or not this should continue.

MM

[BurnSide]

Thank you MM.

As it is i've requested the partisipants to notify me if they are still willing to continue the debate. Once i get the go ahead from both of them i'll re-open this and let them continue.

[edit] okay, jpalz has contacted me willing to continue the debate. so we're off.

Ames, thank you for your patience.

Edited September 7, 2004 by BurnSide

[jpalz]

Just before we start, two things: first of all, sorry for taking SOOOOO LOOONG. I've had very bad weeks for me, extremely busy. And two, in my introduction, the one who was singing Aqualung like a maniac was my mom

POST 1

To say that European Rock Music is better than U.S. Rock is absolutely the most ridiculous thing you could ever say. The simple reason is that European Rock Music would not exist if it wasn't for the U.S.

It is extremely likely that if it wasn't for Bill Haley, Elvis and the like that people like the Beatles, the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin etc would even have had the courage to start up their own type of rock, they probably wouldn't have even thought about it. The simple fact is that U.S. rock made it ok for people to like that kind of music.

Mmmmmkay... Influences are important when you write a book, create music or anything else related to art, but they are not the ultimate sources for creation. I mean, you can try to put some "Elvis-like" riffs in a song but if you can't find one you just do something else. You are forgetting about the individual capacity of creating of people. You just invent things along the way. Anyone who has written a fiction novel will tell you that. Where I'm going to is that these groups would have come out anyways, even if Bill Haley or Elvis never showed up, and received equal success from the critics and the public. Or do you think that Freddy Page NEEDED Elvis to start Led Zeppelin? As a matter of fact, I'm listening to "Stairway to Heaven", and has such a complexity that Elvis never dreamed of, nor any of the American rockers before them, nor the American rockers that appeared later.

Today, U.S. Rock music continues to be the biggest selling. How many European Rock acts are big across the world today? I think you would find it hard to name more than 10.

People like Aerosmith, Bon Jovi, and even people like Blink 182 are huge all across the world and European rock acts of today can't seem to replicate this.

Success is NOT ALWAYS a synonnym of quality. Of course this subject depends mostly on one's personal point of view (I love Beastie Boys, for example, maybe you don't), but there are some artists that, viewed from a completely objective point of view, have an absolutely crappy catalog of music. But, even now, European rock continues to be better than US rock bands. Examples? There ya go: U2, Oasis, The Cranberries, Coldplay, Stratovarius (listen to Destiny and you'll know what I'm talking about), Elton John, Phil Collins, Iron Maiden, Sting and Nightwish. There you go! Ten! Ten better groups than... mmm... hard to find one really good nowadays.... Nickelback or Blink 182?

Yeah, US musicians might earn more money (and they do) than artists like The Cranberries, but when you listen music you don't care about how much records they have selled, but of the quality of the music. And in that there's no possible comparison, Europe has better music. Which of these groups has more heart, more passion, more skills, all the factors that separate great bands from the rest: or ?

It seems to be that Europeans crafted their rock based on the U.S. and had their glory days, the Beatles, Stones, Queen etc but they have failed to keep up the tradition and can only offer poppy rock such as the dire Busted and their clones McFly.

Well, in every country you have good and bad bands, that's obvious and inevitable. If the bands you mention are the best Europe has then of course US rock will be much better. But the reality is far away from that, just check the bands that I mentioned just above, they're all better than the ones you mention and way better than the ones from the US. You're right, that poppy rock sucks, and the US is full of it, just listen to Sum 41; but in Europe, even though there is poppy rock too there are also bands with heart. First example? Check the one in the picture.

Now, for the thing that Europe crafted their rock based on the US is absolutely false, cause', and this goes again, European bands had their influency from the US, but that wasn't their only source. They're not a ripoff of Elvis and Bill Halley: as a matter of fact, it worked more the other way round, not with Elvis of course, but with the bands that followed them. They all tried to mimick the European rock style, but almost none did it brilliantly. The Doors is the only exception to this, but even they didn't accomplish to have the magic of European bands.

And yes, European rock is not on their glory days, but it's the same situation in the US, and Europe still has better bands than the US. I mean, if Nickelback is the best the US has to offer (and it actually is), then something very wrong is going on.

When the Europeans can match the commercial success and quality of U.S. Rock Music then I will be willing to back down on my argument. Until then, U.S. Rock Music will remain the best.

Just because US rock has more commercial success doesn't mean that it is better. It means that they have bigger publicity campaigns.

And European rock has not matched the quality of US rock, it has surpassed it. It always has.

Jpalz

[BurnSide]

Due to time restraints Ames has informed me she is unable to participate any longer in this debate.

As such, jpalz wins the debate by default. Thanks for your participation, both of ya.

[jpalz]

What??????

Well, I'm sorry Ames couldn't go on. Now, what side do YOU think is better?

[Mentalcase]

I personally think Led Zepplin is the best rock n roll band ever, however they are not my fav. They just possess the best qualities of all rock bands. Consistant and always good songs. No B sides, allt he songs have radio quality.

I know, off topic..

[BurnSide]

everyone, the debate is over. if you want to talk about the subject, do it in PMs. this thread is to be considered closed. i'm just waiting for saucy or saruman to close it. further posts will be deleted.

thanks guys.

I'll just go ahead and close it BS.

Edited September 25, 2004 by Mentalcase