The Hunt for the Skinwalker

[rezna]

OMG.

I just read this book. It's incredible! I have an all new theory about what's going on with paranormal incidinces. Everyone, if you are at all into the paranormal, this book is a must read. You can get it for 6 bucks as an e-book, which is what I did. Man, I want to read it again! I just recently started getting back into the paranormal. I've always been a huge X-files fan, and the X-files is just an entertaining way to see paranormal stuff since there isn't anything good on tv about this stuff anymore. I miss Sightings, that was a great show. Anyways, go get this book! Now!

I am thoroughly fascinated now with Utah. I want to go there and look at this farm, just to see it in real life. I don't care about having any experiences, I just want to look at it so the story itsself has more context. It's just amazing to hear these stories. They are profound and happen similarly in other places, too. I refuse to believe that anything paranormal isn't really happening. It cannot be a shared delusion through hundreds of thousands of peoples/experiencers.

We are NOT alone.

[Bearly]

OMG.

I am thoroughly fascinated now with Utah. I want to go there and look at this farm, just to see it in real life. I don't care about having any experiences, I just want to look at it so the story itsself has more context. It's just amazing to hear these stories. They are profound and happen similarly in other places, too. I refuse to believe that anything paranormal isn't really happening. It cannot be a shared delusion through hundreds of thousands of peoples/experiencers.

We are NOT alone.

I believe in keeping an open mind, but I wouldn't swallow everything regarding the paranormal that you hear. A lot of it is true, but there are some crazy ideas out there. Could you give a brief description of the topics this book covers? Is it supposed to be factual or fiction?

Edited November 16, 2006 by Bearly

[rezna]

I believe in keeping an open mind, but I wouldn't swallow everything regarding the paranormal that you hear. A lot of it is true, but there are some crazy ideas out there. Could you give a brief description of the topics this book covers? Is it supposed to be factual or fiction?

Well, I have an open mind to the paranormal. I believe that Science is the destroyer of an open mind. The more we allow formulas and the scientific method to rule our lives, we'll end up like those people in the latest South Park episode saying things like, "Oh my Science, or Science H Science" Science people are just as zealous as religious people.

Anyways

The book is about a farm in Utah which a family moved to because they wanted to get away from small town gossip. They lived there for around 6 months to a year before anything started to happen. They started experiencing very weird phenomena. The usual stuff though, all in one place. Orbs, Bigfoot appearances, strange other wordly animals, UFO's, etc. The owner got fed up with it after 14 of his prized bulls were mutilated. NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science heard about his plight and offered to buy the farm to study it. This is book is the story of the owner of Skinwalker Ranch and his experiences before the NIDS team came on the property, and then the 10 years of research described by two of the NIDS team scientists. Keep in mind that these are Physicists, with PHDs out on this ranch trying to get scientifically proven paranormal evidence. Of course, it didn't really amount to much except this excellent book.

I do not think that eye witnesses make this stuff up, or that they are hallucinating. The end of the book explains their hypothesis of what might be going on at the ranch and it's fascinating. Like I said, I have an all new idea of what paranormal is. We can't look at anything in this world as black and white, it's either real or its not. That is simply not true. What people see is something they see and people like the owners of this ranch had no reason to make any of it up. They were traumatized by it. They lost money from it. THey had to move twice to get away from it.

It's a wonderful read, and just utterly fascinating. There are a lot of websites with snipets of the story, which is how I came upon it. Just do a google for NIDS or Skinwalker Ranch and you'll find all kinds of info about it.

[Bearly]

Thanks for giving more details. It sounds more interesting to me now. I take it now that it is non-fiction, correct me if I'm wrong.

As a scientist who has had paranormal experiences myself and then tried to get other scientists to believe me, I have to agree that dependence on science can lead to a closed mind and it can be as bad as religion. Thanks for posting.

[Sweetpumper]

I'm getting it as a gift for Christmas.

[rezna]

Thanks for giving more details. It sounds more interesting to me now. I take it now that it is non-fiction, correct me if I'm wrong.

As a scientist who has had paranormal experiences myself and then tried to get other scientists to believe me, I have to agree that dependence on science can lead to a closed mind and it can be as bad as religion. Thanks for posting.

Your welcome! And what a refreshing post! Someone who applauds me for my opinions, yay! This other message board I was on was horrible. They would tear me down, anything I would say. Good to hear from a scientist who has brains (haha!)

Edited November 17, 2006 by rezna

[Bearly]

Your welcome! And what a refreshing post! Someone who applauds me for my opinions, yay! This other message board I was on was horrible. They would tear me down, anything I would say. Good to hear from a scientist who has brains (haha!)

We have people that will challenge you on this board also, but they have a right to their opinion also. However, a lot of people besides myself have had some kind of paranormal experience and such people are often attracted to this board. So you will find a higher percentage of people with open minds on this board.

IMO a truely good scientist tries to consider all possibilities when seeking the truth and this requires an open mind. Sometimes, some theories can't be tested to everyone's safisfaction, this does not mean that the initial hypothesis is wrong. Unfortunatly, many scientist become biased or only see things through the prism of their field of specialty or there pet theories. This will even affect their interpretation of the results. Even so, as previously stated, I do not believe everything, some things sound more plausible than others, but I try to keep an open mind until firmly proven one way or the other. And sometimes I go out on a limb and believe without proof. I could make a mistake, but so what, that's not a crime. I hope you will continue to enjoy this website and have good experiences. You will learn a lot if you stick around.

[boorite]

This book completely stunned me. It's as if some huge, insane, nonhuman intelligence said "let's dump every crazy paranormal thing in the world into this one family's lap and see what happens." It's not presented as a fictionalization "based on true events." It's supposed to be a sober, straightforward, journalistic account of things that happened to a real family on this particular ranch. It'll change your definition of "weird," that's for sure.

About "science" and what it does to your thinking. Science as a method opens one's mind.

On the other hand, science as an establishment of careerists careering along in their careers can be limiting, I think. For example, there are questions you investigate and questions you simply don't. Not if you want tenure.

And on the third hand is something I'd call scientism. This is a viewpoint that imbues science with all sorts of great properties it doesn't have, like the ability to prove propositions with utter certainty. Often, people who learn a little science are guilty of scientism. They cling to their idea of "science" for pat answers. They are not aware of how much is truly unknown. They tend to dismiss things they can't explain as hallucinations or lies, no matter how implausible that explanation may be.

That ain't science!

Anyway, Hunt for the Skinwalker is indispensible. I hope everyone reads it.

[Gatofeo]

I live in Utah.

I've heard of this farm.

Here, it's known as something of a local urban legend: most of it is fabricated, and what ain't fabricated is made up!

Believe if you must but remember that someone had a book to sell. And your $6 ended up in their pocket.

My understanding is that the family has tried, repeatedly, to play down these rumors but folks won't leave them alone.

I have some experience with being the recipient of hoaxes and local legends. Once reported, it's almost impossible to convince people that it's not true.

No, I haven't read the book. I have no desire to.

[boorite]

For the events in the book to be fabricated, everyone involved, including the authors and their investigative team, would have to conspire in making up the biggest, craziest lie you ever heard and sticking to it all this time. I don't see sufficient reason to come to that conclusion.

The account given in the book cannot be a case of runaway rumors, as the authors had direct access to the experients of these phenomena. Indeed, they worked together closely for an extended period. Some of the events were experienced by the authors themselves and their research team. So a false account couldn't possibly be a result of blowing rumors out of proportion. It would require an airtight conspiracy of big, fat liars.

Gatofeo, you say that your understanding is that the family tried to downplay the events, but folks wouldn't leave them alone. I can agree with this characterization but do not see how it militates against the truth of the account. What exactly do you mean that they have tried to downplay, and how and why? Who hasn't left them alone, and when? How'd you come to this understanding? I am just wondering.

Surely, if rumors about the truth of the reported events can flourish, so can rumors of their falsity. Does anything but rumors suggest that this book represents a conspiracy to defraud the reading public?

[uth]

For the events in the book to be fabricated, everyone involved, including the authors and their investigative team, would have to conspire in making up the biggest, craziest lie you ever heard and sticking to it all this time. I don't see sufficient reason to come to that conclusion.

The account given in the book cannot be a case of runaway rumors, as the authors had direct access to the experients of these phenomena. Indeed, they worked together closely for an extended period. Some of the events were experienced by the authors themselves and their research team. So a false account couldn't possibly be a result of blowing rumors out of proportion. It would require an airtight conspiracy of big, fat liars.

Gatofeo, you say that your understanding is that the family tried to downplay the events, but folks wouldn't leave them alone. I can agree with this characterization but do not see how it militates against the truth of the account. What exactly do you mean that they have tried to downplay, and how and why? Who hasn't left them alone, and when? How'd you come to this understanding? I am just wondering.

Surely, if rumors about the truth of the reported events can flourish, so can rumors of their falsity. Does anything but rumors suggest that this book represents a conspiracy to defraud the reading public?

I'm reading this book now. I haven't decided yet if I fully believe it, but it is very interesting.

FWIW though, there is a thread on this very board where people posted their own skinwalker encounters:

http://www.unexplained-mysteries.com/forum...p?showtopic=275

[Isis2200]

OMG.

I just read this book. It's incredible! I have an all new theory about what's going on with paranormal incidinces. Everyone, if you are at all into the paranormal, this book is a must read. You can get it for 6 bucks as an e-book, which is what I did. Man, I want to read it again! I just recently started getting back into the paranormal. I've always been a huge X-files fan, and the X-files is just an entertaining way to see paranormal stuff since there isn't anything good on tv about this stuff anymore. I miss Sightings, that was a great show. Anyways, go get this book! Now!

I am thoroughly fascinated now with Utah. I want to go there and look at this farm, just to see it in real life. I don't care about having any experiences, I just want to look at it so the story itsself has more context. It's just amazing to hear these stories. They are profound and happen similarly in other places, too. I refuse to believe that anything paranormal isn't really happening. It cannot be a shared delusion through hundreds of thousands of peoples/experiencers.

We are NOT alone.

Hi Rezna,

I read the book about a year ago, and I loved it. What do you think is the cause of all the anomalous occurrences on the ranch? military activities or a vortex on the property?

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis

[nativechick1989]

I never heard of that .. I'm gonna have to check out the book, I like reading about stuff like that. Thnx for sharing that info rezna.

[Sweetpumper]

I finally finished Whitley's new one, I'll start this one tonite!

[Sweetpumper]

Got thru about 2 chapters last nite. Wow! If the first 2 are any indication, this is gonna be good. Freaky.

[eqgumby]

Well, I have an open mind to the paranormal. I believe that Science is the destroyer of an open mind. The more we allow formulas and the scientific method to rule our lives, we'll end up like those people in the latest South Park episode saying things like, "Oh my Science, or Science H Science" Science people are just as zealous as religious people.

Anyways

The book is about a farm in Utah which a family moved to because they wanted to get away from small town gossip. They lived there for around 6 months to a year before anything started to happen. They started experiencing very weird phenomena. The usual stuff though, all in one place. Orbs, Bigfoot appearances, strange other wordly animals, UFO's, etc. The owner got fed up with it after 14 of his prized bulls were mutilated. NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science heard about his plight and offered to buy the farm to study it. This is book is the story of the owner of Skinwalker Ranch and his experiences before the NIDS team came on the property, and then the 10 years of research described by two of the NIDS team scientists. Keep in mind that these are Physicists, with PHDs out on this ranch trying to get scientifically proven paranormal evidence. Of course, it didn't really amount to much except this excellent book.

I do not think that eye witnesses make this stuff up, or that they are hallucinating. The end of the book explains their hypothesis of what might be going on at the ranch and it's fascinating. Like I said, I have an all new idea of what paranormal is. We can't look at anything in this world as black and white, it's either real or its not. That is simply not true. What people see is something they see and people like the owners of this ranch had no reason to make any of it up. They were traumatized by it. They lost money from it. THey had to move twice to get away from it.

It's a wonderful read, and just utterly fascinating. There are a lot of websites with snipets of the story, which is how I came upon it. Just do a google for NIDS or Skinwalker Ranch and you'll find all kinds of info about it.

That's sad. Sounds like you just hate logic and reality. I'll have to look into this series of events though.

[asc.rudeboy]

They started experiencing very weird phenomena. The usual stuff though, all in one place. Orbs, Bigfoot appearances, strange other wordly animals, UFO's, etc. The owner got fed up with it after 14 of his prized bulls were mutilated. NIDS, the National Institute for Discovery Science heard about his plight and offered to buy the farm to study it.

how is any of this stuff usual?

any one of these events experienced one way or another are life changing,,,i just have a ahrd time believeing bigfoot and a bunch of ufos and tons of other phenomena happend all at one time in one place,,ok i could possibly concieve a haunted house,maybe a strage animal sighting or even a strange ufo like light you couldnt explain.. but a haunted house with bigfoot and et playing with orbs and carving up cattle all in the same place,im looking for the hidden cameras and wondering what reality tv show im gonna be on.andi hate to say it but the NIDS is a privetly funded organazation so them stretching the truth,or just mkaing things up to sell books is a lot easier to believe then bigfoot,worldy animals,ufos,and orbs.but that dosent mean its not a good read but i dont know if it should shape your outlook on life.

[Sweetpumper]

any one of these events experienced one way or another are life changing,,,i just have a ahrd time believeing bigfoot and a bunch of ufos and tons of other phenomena happend all at one time in one place,,ok i could possibly concieve a haunted house,maybe a strage animal sighting or even a strange ufo like light you couldnt explain.. but a haunted house with bigfoot and et playing with orbs and carving up cattle all in the same place,im looking for the hidden cameras and wondering what reality tv show im gonna be on.andi hate to say it but the NIDS is a privetly funded organazation so them stretching the truth,or just mkaing things up to sell books is a lot easier to believe then bigfoot,worldy animals,ufos,and orbs.but that dosent mean its not a good read but i dont know if it should shape your outlook on life.

Uh, all that's explained in the book.

[rezna]

Yay I'm so glad I could show people a good read

Well, IMHO I believe the authors of this book are not lying. They put their reputation on the line with this book, why would they fabricate all of this to invite their peers to say, "you are a bunch of idiots". I mean why ask for that on purpose? In a situation like this one, it only makes sense for them to come out with the truth about what happened. Isis, I am not sure what was going on there. It's a really good question! After reading the book, I was convinced of the validity of the book. It seems very strange that all of these things would be happening in one place. But maybe that's the answer. Maybe every sighting is just part of all of these things. It just so happens that we got to see all of it in one place. So it could all be happening just like it is in Utah all the time, it's just what we see that gets talked about. Just like how a researcher could easily over look something because they aren't specifically looking for that, they are looking for something else.

It seemed to me that what might be happening is this: Our brains create something called DMT. There are ways to create DMT outside of our bodies as well. I am starting to believe that these phenomena could be from DMT. Maybe there are DMT hot spots in the world. And possibly people who are more susceptable to that. So, if you;ve got all the ingredients which are:

Susceptable person to DMT hot spot + That person in a DMT hot spot = Paranormal phenomena.

Scientists have proven that they can recreate the feeling of "someone watching you" or "a presence in the room". If that is true, than the right conditions could cause this to happen without scientists doing it. Obviously, cause it happens to people all the time.

So maybe Skinwalker Ranch is a heightened DMT producing area of the earth where the magnetism of the core is somehow easier to get through in that particular place, or something like that. And when a person who is susceptable to this (not sure what the parameters of that would be) gets into this area, they start seeing things. DMT causes "hallucinations". That's what scientists categorize something a when 1 person sees something and another person in the same room doesnt see it.

Ok so theres that theory. But I have another theory. I think that DMT could possibly be a travelling agent. Somehow, DMT allows our brain to change its frequencies, to change its "level" and go to a different level of being. A different dimension, or something to that effect. If that is true, and you combine it with the theory I presented before this, then you get:

Susceptable person to DMT hot spot + DMT hot spot + Effects of DMT = Not a paranormal experience, but instead a person changing realities, being able to see another dimension juxtaposed with the one they are currently in.

NOW that is FASCINATING stuff to think about.

[battleangel]

Still haven't had the chance to pick up the book but I did find what seemed to be a decent list of some of what they experienced out there at this site:

http://www.book-of-thoth.com/thebook/index...kinwalker_ranch

# Dogs that looked to be deceased, but were animated

# Dog-headed men smoking cigarettes

# Bigfoot-like creatures - the local Ute Indians believe some of these may be actual creatures but consider some of them to be skinwalkers - the Ute often seem to use the term Skinwalker/Sasquatch interchangeably.<ref name="kelleher">Kelleher, Colm & Knapp, George: Hunt for the Skinwalker: Science Confronts the Unexplained at a Remote Ranch in Utah (Paraview Pocket Books, 2005 ISBN 1-4165-0521-0)</ref>

These three things, just based on the brief little descriptions, do sound like skinwalkers. Skinwalkers will use the skin of a dead animal to traipse around in. You can tell it's a dead animal because it's missing the eyes and the skin is kind of rotting. Yuck, lol. They are perfectly capable of blowing whistles, flutes so one smoking a cigarette would not be impossible. "Bigfoot like" creatures also make sense. There was one guy that I ran into whose friend found a really good comparison that my husband (Navajo) just loved and that they can look like they are wearing a gillie suit like a sniper would wear. This definitely give them a "bigfoot-like" appearance.

I'm still really troubled that they went to the Ute or an outsider who heard Ute versions of this kind of thing. It's a Navajo thing. They should have talked to the tribe where it originates from--not the Ute who tend to just be victims of the whole thing. There's a huge difference in knowledge there. Can anybody check to see if they read what Kluckhohn had to say on the subject? His book has been out for decades and is really pretty good. If not, it is this aspect that really makes me worry about their methodology at that ranch (I refuse to call it "skinwalker ranch" because there are probably hundreds of ranches that have skinwalker problems out here--they aren't that special). If they were lucky or thorough, then they would've found out that the appearance of skinwalkers someplace might not indicate anything paranormal really as skinwalkers are pretty much really bad medicine with even worse taste in dress.

So, tiny nod in that they probably did see some skinwalkers but still irked. I will still pick it up to read some century...

[Sweetpumper]

This book is freaky. A lot of info on the Dulce area also, as it seems to mirror a lot of the activities on the ranch. Also native land. This really boggles the mind.

[The Skeptic Eric Raven]

I believe that Science is the destroyer of an open mind. The more we allow formulas and the scientific method to rule our lives, we'll end up like those people in the latest South Park episode saying things like, "Oh my Science, or Science H Science" Science people are just as zealous as religious people.

Anyways

This is a sad commentary on the state some people.

[Sweetpumper]

I really recommend this for skeptics also. I can't stress the scientific steps taken that leave this team with ONLY "wtf's?"

[rezna]

I really recommend this for skeptics also. I can't stress the scientific steps taken that leave this team with ONLY "wtf's?"

that about sums it up

[Isis2200]

NOW that is FASCINATING stuff to think about.

Wouldn't that be great if they made a movie based on that book? I wonder if they've received any offers. I'll try to find out.

http://ashiana.conforums.com/index.cgi

~ Isis2200