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Millions of poverty-striken Bulgarians ....


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#31    Bonecrusher

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 09:29 AM

View Postali smack, on 17 February 2013 - 10:37 PM, said:

We need to stop this madness
It would be absolute madness on the Bulgarians end as well.
As anybody actually checked out the population of Bulgaria?
There is only 7.3 million souls there.
So if they let go of more than half of their population it's akin to committing hari- kari.
Not only will our infrastructure be compromised but there's also.
Under- population is just as bad as over- population.
So if they flee all will be left will be a wealthy elite.
You also might have  a few manual workers on more than the minimal wage or whatever passes for it there.
You'll get ghost towns with only elected officials in charge and Sofia.
It makes you wonder how patriotic these Bulgarians actually are.
Like rats deserting a sinking ship.

Edited by Medium Brown, 18 February 2013 - 09:29 AM.

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#32    keithisco

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Posted 18 February 2013 - 07:11 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Don't you live in Benidorm?
Why would it make any difference to you?

I see the "Express" papers as being quite Tory Conservative in their outlook.

I don't agree that with the rate of unemployment for UK residents that more imigrants can be a good thing, but I do feel that we have to look at the world as a "whole"  and if others need help, or can benefit from coming to our country, then so be it.

I think there is a lot of "divide and conquer" when it comes to politics, and simply blaming imigirants for all our problems is daft.

First point (highlight mine) Yes, I do live in Benidorm and we have first - hand experience of just what having an open border with Romania and Bulgaria means. The sheer scale of the criminality you would need to experience for yourself. Likewise the enormous drain on Social Funds that this has caused and the damage they cause on a Society and it's Culture.

Second point  (highlight mine again): Whilst the sentiment is admirable (no sarcasm by the way) we are talking about nations that have met the Economic Convergence Criteria to become full members of the EU. We are not tallking talking about 3rd world countries suffing under Dictatorship, or huge natural disasters, we are talking about (supposedly) affluent nations that do not do what they should do Socially to help their own people.

So my answer is simply "NO"... neither the UK nor the rest of the EU should take the place of Rumanian or Bulgarian National Social Security. It is an abject derogation of National Duty to slyly pass on their problems to other nations within the EU. Is this really the responsibility of the other EU Nations????

Edited by keithisco, 18 February 2013 - 07:12 PM.


#33    ali smack

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 02:39 PM

why is it we have to always take immigrants? Can't Germany, Italy or anyone else in europe take them?
I don't have a problem with immigrants, it's just no where for them to live or get jobs here.
i'm only thinking about the poor folks


#34    Mistydawn

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 06:54 PM

View Postkeithisco, on 18 February 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

First point (highlight mine) Yes, I do live in Benidorm and we have first - hand experience of just what having an open border with Romania and Bulgaria means. The sheer scale of the criminality you would need to experience for yourself. Likewise the enormous drain on Social Funds that this has caused and the damage they cause on a Society and it's Culture.

Second point  (highlight mine again): Whilst the sentiment is admirable (no sarcasm by the way) we are talking about nations that have met the Economic Convergence Criteria to become full members of the EU. We are not tallking talking about 3rd world countries suffing under Dictatorship, or huge natural disasters, we are talking about (supposedly) affluent nations that do not do what they should do Socially to help their own people.

So my answer is simply "NO"... neither the UK nor the rest of the EU should take the place of Rumanian or Bulgarian National Social Security. It is an abject derogation of National Duty to slyly pass on their problems to other nations within the EU. Is this really the responsibility of the other EU Nations????
Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.
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#35    skookum

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 10:15 PM

View Postali smack, on 19 February 2013 - 02:39 PM, said:

why is it we have to always take immigrants? Can't Germany, Italy or anyone else in europe take them?
I don't have a problem with immigrants, it's just no where for them to live or get jobs here.
i'm only thinking about the poor folks

Simple answer is welfare state.

Apparently the Bulgarian Government has already asked for guarantee's we will house them, give them benefits and free health care.

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#36    spud the mackem

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Posted 10 March 2013 - 11:23 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 11 February 2013 - 10:01 PM, said:

Don't you live in Benidorm?
Why would it make any difference to you?
I see the "Express" papers as being quite Tory Conservative in their outlook.

I don't agree that with the rate of unemployment for UK residents that more imigrants can be a good thing, but I do feel that we have to look at the world as a "whole"  and if others need help, or can benefit from coming to our country, then so be it.

I think there is a lot of "divide and conquer" when it comes to politics, and simply blaming imigirants for all our problems is daft.
  Ref your 2nd Para, so you are going to share your house, give an English speaking Bulgarian your job,to help them out ?You obviously don t live in a poverty stricken area, which you can find in any Brit city,and I honestly don't think that you realise what you have just said.Britain just cannot support a lot more immigrants without becoming the same as the countries they leave,and so we are being dragged down to their level, Charity begins at home me dear,and the poverty level in Britain is rising daily,or haven't you noticed people being made redundant and shops closing every day and businesses going bankrupt,houses being repossessed.

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#37    stevewinn

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 06:47 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 10 March 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.
One world, one race. I know I am in for a battering her, but it is how I am.


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#38    keithisco

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 09:00 PM

View PostMistydawn, on 10 March 2013 - 06:54 PM, said:

Keithisco, you clearly know your Politics. It's good that you do, I am not very attune to the political stance on any ruling government of any country.

Maybe I am an Idealist or maybe just plain a romantic. I don' know. I just see the whole world's problems as a "Whole" and not segmented.

For me it is only segmented, borders and restrictions, as a power struggle amongst those as have the power to have gain for themselves against those who have none.

I know we in the western world put them there by Election, but really, I don't think that someone from India, or someone from Zimbabwe or anywhere else has less right to live in my country than me.
One world, one race. I know I am in for a battering her, but it is how I am.

No "Battering" - promise  :no:

If all Nations in this world held to the same principles in terms of Social Assistance, Welfare, and simple adherence to Governing for the benefit of their own people, then I would TEND to agree. However the grim reality is that outside of the Western World this seems not to be the case.

It is a truism that people who are downtrodden, impotent to enforce change in their own Nations, treated as fodder for the cannon, despised by their leaders - will always endeavour to enter those nations that, through centuries of their own Peoples struggles to achieve a tolerable level of life, appear to offer them something that they have not earned for themselves.

I am referring to those in any Western nation whose forebears made the struggle, suffered the hardships, and martyred themselves to give what the Western World has today. They have earned their right to decent life through their own endeavours. Look at England and latterly the UK, the people have been fighting and winning incremental rights ever since 1215ad (Magna Carta) - it was not given to them on a Plate,

To end, those from outside these Western nations do NOT have an instant right to enjoy the hard won freedoms and standard of life that those in the west enjoy. you cannot "Freeload" on the West. Instant Gratification is just not an option.





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