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'Culture war' more than gun rights

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#46    Michelle

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 12:57 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 06 May 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.

You've never dealt with anyone that is truly mentally ill have you?


#47    Spiral staircase

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

The line of "if we only enforced our laws" and all would be better seems hollowly echoed. It is likely those repeating it are sincere but misguided.

We cannot legislate or enforce the problem when the gun lobby is after life profits and keep flooding our civilian markets and population.

Flood any society with guns and they will begin to be used in ways not acceptable to that society in the end.

That the gun manufacturers began  pumping semi-autos and sporting arms in the 1980s into our market at the same time the spike in gun violence began is no surprise.

Previous to the arming of society most gun owners and police forces relied on the revolver.

With more killing power being introduced there will be more victims. The lone wolf wanting to unleash on society would think twice with a revolver but with 20+ and 50 round clips we are seeing the results.


#48    Michelle

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:05 AM

I'm sorry, but you don't seem to have a grasp on supply and demand either. If you think people in the US magically started collecting guns in the 80's and this is the reason for the sudden increase in killings you are sadly mistaken.

Edited by Michelle, 06 May 2013 - 01:18 AM.


#49    CRYSiiSx2

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:31 AM

View PostThe New Richard Nixon, on 04 May 2013 - 10:25 PM, said:

So you support the NRA that EVERYONE needs a gun? the NRA does not care what you think nor your rights, it only cares about itself and its rights. A company or organisation only cares about itself and no one else. A right is what your choice is, what you do not someone else to choose it for you

Aren't you the smart guy who thought the NRA was all for profit, when they are a non-profit organization?

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#50    CRYSiiSx2

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:37 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 06 May 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home. Add depression or other mental health issues and I'd imagine that would only add to those odds.

Those suffering should surrender/sale their firearms for the safety of their family. It is the prudent thing to do.

Where do you get that statistic from?  Most false B.S. post I've seen in a while.

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#51    Glorfindel

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:46 AM

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 05 May 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

No worries and I agree it is unlikely but not impossible. Still that is not something I desire, an insurgency here is not something anyone should desire, it would bring us more harm collectively and is not cost effective in bringing political change just because we disagree with the current administration.

In time a Republican will be reelected and our ballot box will prove its value over rhetoric calling for "second amendment remedies" which seem fanciful at best but ill-advised overall.

I believe we all sound like exactly who we are and are just offering opinions. Mine is directed toward the topic and not you personally.

The threats of an "armed uprising" have largely been made by various militia organizations in the USA. The Waco Texas incident on the 90's fuelled membership in these militias. They made threats during the Bush administration, and they make threats now during the Obama administration. The Republicans being reelected will not likely stop this rhetoric. This is because both parties are constantly violating the Constitution.

View PostLeave Britney alone!, on 06 May 2013 - 12:46 AM, said:

Odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home.

That has been debunked countless times on this forum.

Edited by Glorfindel, 06 May 2013 - 02:51 AM.


#52    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 07:46 AM

I think this is a pointless argument. As long as americans value the ownership of a gun over the lives of their children then nothing will change. Gun manufacturers with still make big profits, politicians will still pretend to care & children will still get shot up in school once in a while.

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#53    Yes_Man

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:21 AM

View PostCRYSiiSx2, on 06 May 2013 - 02:31 AM, said:

Aren't you the smart guy who thought the NRA was all for profit, when they are a non-profit organization?
I said gun manufacturers


#54    Spiral staircase

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:30 AM

Both your argument are not particularly convincing as it stands (i.e., simply refuting something without proof.)

View PostCRYSiiSx2, on 06 May 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Where do you get that statistic from?  Most false B.S. post I've seen in a while.

The statistic of "odds are that a firearm in a home will cause harm to someone in that home" were from scholars and studies within academia.

View PostGlorfindel, on 06 May 2013 - 02:46 AM, said:

That has been debunked countless times on this forum.

If (?) you can debunk it be sure to provide academic sources from a univeristy we would all recognize as unbiased.

Quote

After adjustment, individuals in possession of a gun were 4.46 (P < .05) times more likely to be shot in an assault than those not in possession.

American Journal of Public Health - Investigating the Link Between Gun Possession and Gun Assault

Quote

Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4).

They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death.

The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9).

Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6).

Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.

American Journal of Epidemiology - Oxford Journals - Guns in the Home and Risk of a Violent Death in the Home: Findings from a National Study

Quote

Compared to homes without guns, the presence of guns in the home is associated with a 3-fold increased homicide risk within the home. The risk connected to gun ownership increases to 8-fold when the offender is an intimate partner or relative of the victim and is 20 times higher when previous domestic violence exists.

A study of risk factors for violent death of women in the home found that women living in homes with 1 or more guns were more than 3 times more likely to be killed in their homes.The same study concluded that women killed by a spouse, intimate acquaintance, or close relative were 7 times more likely to live in homes with 1 or more guns and 14 times more likely to have a history of prior domestic violence compared to women killed by non-intimate acquaintances.

John Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health - Intimate Partner Violence and Firearms

Quote

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

Harvard Injury Control Research Center -  Where there are more guns there is more homicide

Quote

Most children, older adults, and women are murdered at home. A gun in the home is a particularly strong risk factor for female homicide victimization.

<snip>

There is compelling evidence that a gun in the home is a risk factor for intimidation and for killing women in their homes, and it appears that a gun in the home may more likely be used to threaten intimates than to protect against intruders.

The American Journal of Lifestyle Medicine - Guns in the Home Provide Greater Health Risk than Benefit - Women, Children particularly vulnerable to increased victimization

Quote

The absence of guns from children’s homes and communities is the most reliable and effective measure to prevent firearm-related injuries in children and adolescents. Adolescent suicide risk is strongly associated with firearm availability.

American Academy of Pediatrics - Firearm-Related Injuries Affecting the Pediatric Population

For a brief review.

Quote

The cost-benefit balance of having a gun in the home is especially negative for women, according to a 2011 review by David Hemenway, director of the Harvard Injury Control Research Center. Far from making women safer, a gun in the home is “a particularly strong risk factor” for female homicides and the intimidation of women.

<snip>

Another 2003 study, by Douglas Wiebe of the University of Pennsylvania, found that females living with a gun in the home were 2.7 times more likely to be murdered than females with no gun at home.

<snip>

...guns in the home greatly increase the risk of youth suicides. That is why the American Academy of Pediatrics has long urged parents to remove guns from their homes.

[link]

Edited by Leave Britney alone!, 06 May 2013 - 09:47 AM.


#55    Sir Wearer of Hats

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:47 AM

what's the first rule of stastics? well here in the funny lands of Oz it's "corolation does not mean causation", dunno what it is in the enlightened Americas LBA lives in.


#56    shrooma

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:02 AM

View PostBig Jim, on 04 May 2013 - 10:50 PM, said:

As Patrick Henry so famously said "I may not agree with what you say but I will defend to the death your right to say it."
.
*cough, cough* it was voltaire who said that jim *cough ahem cough*.....

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#57    shrooma

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:07 AM

View PostMichelle, on 06 May 2013 - 01:05 AM, said:

If you think people in the US magically started collecting guns in the 80's and this is the reason for the sudden increase in killings you are sadly mistaken.
.
certainly coincides with the advent of rap music.....
Gangsta Rap is the enemy!!
death to Gangsta Rap!!
:-)

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#58    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:10 AM

View PostCRYSiiSx2, on 06 May 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Where do you get that statistic from?  Most false B.S. post I've seen in a while.


Over 50,000 homicides and suicides occur each year in the United States (1), making them among the leading causes of death, particularly for young people. In 2001, homicide was the second leading cause of death and suicide the third for persons 15–24 years of age (2). Approximately 60 percent of all homicides and suicides in the United States are committed with a firearm (2).

link :- http://aje.oxfordjou...160/10/929.full

America has one of the highest firearm ownership figures in the western world, American has one of the highest homicide rates due to gunshot in the western world. Is anyone really trying to argue that the two are not related?

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 06 May 2013 - 11:16 AM.

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#59    shrooma

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:15 AM

View PostWearer of Hats, on 06 May 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

what's the first rule of stastics?
.
87.925% of statistics are made up on the spot.....
:-)

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#60    shrooma

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 11:19 AM

View Postitsnotoutthere, on 06 May 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Approximately 60 percent of all homicides and suicides in the United States are committed with a firearm
.
it's certainly a lot quicker than the slow, painful death by hanging that we have to use here in the UK.....

sometimes, your signature is worth nothing at all.
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