54 replies to this topic

[ouija ouija]

Darkwind, on 13 September 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

If you don't do the science then how will you know if they are doing more than just guarding territory or looking for mates.  If you don't test out theory then we might as well go back and believe mice are spontaneous from straw and cloth.

Why do we need to know either way?

[Mistydawn]

crows ...and magpies..magpies "talk" is something from the jurassic movies, they give me chills when passing them as they seem to study you as you go by...

[Abramelin]

Mistydawn, on 15 September 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

crows ...and magpies..magpies "talk" is something from the jurassic movies, they give me chills when passing them as they seem to study you as you go by...

I don't know where you live, MistyDawn, but here in Europe we also have Jackdaws, a small kind of crow.

They are very gregarious birds, and early in the morning you can hear dozens of them chatter with eachother.

They don't make that typical crow 'caw' sound, but they produce a great variety of sounds that would make you swear they were actually talking and using words....

[ouija ouija]

Abramelin, on 15 September 2012 - 10:32 AM, said:

I don't know where you live, MistyDawn, but here in Europe we also have Jackdaws, a small kind of crow.

They are very gregarious birds, and early in the morning you can hear dozens of them chatter with eachother.

They don't make that typical crow 'caw' sound, but they produce a great variety of sounds that would make you swear they were actually talking and using words....

I have rooks, crows, jackdaws and magpies in my garden ....... they're all the same family. I think magpies are the creepiest because they really do seem to have their own language with many, many 'words' ........ and they 'talk' to each other at great length. I love the jackdaws because they seem to pair for life and fly or sit around in pairs, grooming each other and 'talking' quietly.
I think it's sad that these days so many people don't just sit and observe the world around them. No one seems to sit unless it's in front of screen of some sort. People seem to always have to be doing something ......... just sitting and observing and thinking is very, very valuable.

[DKO]

Mistydawn, on 15 September 2012 - 10:20 AM, said:

crows ...and magpies..magpies "talk" is something from the jurassic movies, they give me chills when passing them as they seem to study you as you go by...

You wouldn't like the Australian magpie then. They swoop people if they get too close to the nesting area.

As this tourist found out:

[Abramelin]

ouija ouija, on 15 September 2012 - 02:18 PM, said:

I have rooks, crows, jackdaws and magpies in my garden ....... they're all the same family. I think magpies are the creepiest because they really do seem to have their own language with many, many 'words' ........ and they 'talk' to each other at great length. I love the jackdaws because they seem to pair for life and fly or sit around in pairs, grooming each other and 'talking' quietly.
I think it's sad that these days so many people don't just sit and observe the world around them. No one seems to sit unless it's in front of screen of some sort. People seem to always have to be doing something ......... just sitting and observing and thinking is very, very valuable.

I have observed the weirdest things done by corvids, and all I did was just sit or lay still and wait. Either on a bench in a city-park, or at the edge of a field in a forest, on dunes, or in the middle of a noisy city with lots of traffic, an so on.

Here in the Netherlands the jackdaws are almost as tame as chickens, but they never fail to keep an eye on you.

I remember I once was lying on some grassy hillock, watching a large group of jackdaws chattering on the ground some 90 feet away. After a few minutes they became a lot quieter and I saw two jackdaws splitting away from the group ; one flew to the left and one to he right. Both flew in a large semi-circle around the hillock I was on. When I looked up and behind me, they were both hovering above the hillock, their eyes focussed on me. Then I stood up, curious about what would happen: the two jackdaws then flew staright back down the hillock to the group, gave some calls, and the whole group rose up and left.

[Abramelin]

meryt-tetisheri, on 13 September 2012 - 06:17 PM, said:

Crows are also capable of coordinating an attack or a hunt. I saw a murder of crows split into two groups in order to attack a duck's nest. One group pecked at the mother to force her away from the nest, and continued to harass her to keep her away, while the other group attacked the eggs.  They are notorious for attacking ducklings, chicks...etc

They are indeed capable of a coordinated attack and hunt.

Crows are one of the few animals not only not afraid of fire, but even using it.

I was once out in the country side. I was resting against a tree after riding my bike for a couple of hours, eating a sandwich, drinking some water, and watching a farmer in the distance who was burning a heap of twigs, leafs and branches.

To the right, some 40 meters away from the farmer, was a bush with some crows circling above it and walking around it, apparently looking for something hiding inside that bush. After a few minutes I saw what they were after: a young ring dove (or wood pigeon, what's the name?).

A lot of cawing was going on, but the bush was too dense for the crows to get to the pigeon.

Then one crow flew to the heap of burning twigs as soon as the farmer had left, picked up a burning ember, and flew straght back to the bush where the pigeon was still hiding.

Without hesitation the crow went as far inside the bush as was possible, dropped the burning ember, and flew off. After a few minutes the bush was on fire, but it was more smoke than fire.

Eventually the pigeon couldn't hold out any longer, and fled from the bush, at which moment all the crows dived down on him, and quickly killed it by pecking it to death.

I think my lower jaw was somewhere on the ground after I watched this spectacle taking place in front of my eyes...

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[Abramelin]

Of course some will say that that's why they don't like crows: they kill and eat those lovely songbirds and pigeons (and rabbits and whatever they can kill; they are not just carrion eaters), and they would be willing to shoot the crows off or have someone else do it for them.

But in the evening they sit on their fat behinds watching some documentary with David Attenborough about lions, leopards or cheetahs hunting and killing prey.

[Abramelin]

And for those who don't believe corvids are not scared of fire (and smoke), read these old posts of mine (and the rest of that thread):

http://www.unexplain...3

http://www.unexplain...3

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2012 - 05:18 PM.

[meryt-tetisheri]

Abramelin, on 15 September 2012 - 04:50 PM, said:

They are indeed capable of a coordinated attack and hunt.

Crows are one of the few animals not only not afraid of fire, but even using it.

I was once out in the country side. I was resting against a tree after riding my bike for a couple of hours, eating a sandwich, drinking some water, and watching a farmer in the distance who was burning a heap of twigs, leafs and branches.

To the right, some 40 meters away from the farmer, was a bush with some crows circling above it and walking around it, apparently looking for something hiding inside that bush. After a few minutes I saw what they were after: a young ring dove (or wood pigeon, what's the name?).

A lot of cawing was going on, but the bush was too dense for the crows to get to the pigeon.

Then one crow flew to the heap of burning twigs as soon as the farmer had left, picked up a burning ember, and flew straght back to the bush where the pigeon was still hiding.

Without hesitation the crow went as far inside the bush as was possible, dropped the burning ember, and flew off. After a few minutes the bush was on fire, but it was more smoke than fire.

Eventually the pigeon couldn't hold out any longer, and fled from the bush, at which moment all the crows dived down on him, and quickly killed it by pecking it to death.

I think my lower jaw was somewhere on the ground after I watched this spectacle taking place in front of my eyes...

.

This is amazing! I never witnessed anything similar, but I've seen them chasing birds much bigger than them : canada geese, herons, even hawks. The woods and waters attract a lot of wild fowl, and the young easily fall prey to the crows. Every year at spring we try to count the little ducklings, few make it into the summer. There used to be a large colony of magpies but they were replaced by a larger murder of ravens. Unfortunately, they love to settle on the branches of the trees surrounding the garden, and the din of their cawing can be maddening; all song birds are hushed while the ravens are doing their bit of song! Without natural predators, their numbers were increasing, however, this year there are so few around. I do not know why their numbers decreased, no one hunted or shot at them. On the positive side, there are more song birds around. I was told that a person has but one shot at shooting at them, they are capable of recognizing & identifying that person as a 'danger' and will fly away if s/he appears with even a broomstick . As I never shot a bird, I'm not sure about that, it's just what I was told.

[Abramelin]

You sure it were ravens?

You said you live in the Netherlands (Brabant), and ravens are as common here as pandas in China.

Not saying you don't know the difference, but I've noticed many people do not see the (for me obvious) difference between ravens and crows.

FYI: ravens have been reintroduced here in the 60s of the past century (de "Hoge Veluwe"), but have never spread out that far and their numbers are still really small.


Raven top, crow bottom:



And ravens don't 'caw' like crows.

They 'quork', they 'gurgle' and whatever it is called in English, but they don't caw like a crow.

When flying, ravens soar a lot,  crows flap their wings constantly.

Ravens have a wedge shaped tail during flight, crows have a triangular tail.

Ravens, when calling, show a 'beard', crows have nothing like that.

Ravens keep their head still or point it downwards when calling, a crow throws its head up when calling.

Ravens have a large bill, and the upper jaw has a curve with a sharp, raptor like tip.

The crow's beak is straight

Ravens are  twice as large as a crow.

Ravens have pointed wings, crows have 'fingered' wings when flying.

That;s about all I can drag up from memory (right now).

.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2012 - 07:26 PM.

[The Silver Thong]

I raised to magpies. They had no feathers so I didn't know what they were brought them home one in each pocket of my jacket. I showed my mom and she had no clue what to do so she called a vet and they said feed them wet dog food. So I did. They grew up were very smart and I would walk around with one on each shoulder. I could grab one throw it like a football and bam it would land right back on me.  They knew I was protection so even getting close to cats or dogs did not bother them. Might have been better off if they were scared. I took them them to the park and yes got them flying and ond one day they just took off but came back every year for years.


My dad was none to happy as the shat all over his golf clubs in the basement where I lived with them. No not under the stairs.....

[The Mule]

...and no offense Abe, I know how you feel about crows. But in my yard they're way too loud too early in the morning...

[Abramelin]

The Mule, on 15 September 2012 - 07:32 PM, said:

...and no offense Abe, I know how you feel about crows. But in my yard they're way too loud too early in the morning...

I am not the one telling you what you should feel or not feel about crows.

But I wake up every morning (well, wake up, I sleep only a couple of hours every day) with the chatter of jackdaws. And they sound way different from any other corvid. They make sounds that would make you feel you are eavesdropping on some secret conversation.

AND often with a magpie perching on my balcony calling at the rise of the sun. I don't know why s/he choses MY balcony

But I love it.

When the magpie is there, I - still lying on my bed - make magpie calls, and the magpie always gets furious, lol.

LOL, I don't know what I am 'saying' in magpie-ish, but it must sound confronting.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 15 September 2012 - 07:58 PM.

[Abramelin]

The Silver Thong, on 15 September 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

I raised to magpies. They had no feathers so I didn't know what they were brought them home one in each pocket of my jacket. I showed my mom and she had no clue what to do so she called a vet and they said feed them wet dog food. So I did. They grew up were very smart and I would walk around with one on each shoulder. I could grab one throw it like a football and bam it would land right back on me.  They knew I was protection so even getting close to cats or dogs did not bother them. Might have been better off if they were scared. I took them them to the park and yes got them flying and ond one day they just took off but came back every year for years.


My dad was none to happy as the shat all over his golf clubs in the basement where I lived with them. No not under the stairs.....

They trusted you, and they would have protected you when they thought you were being 'attacked'.

I have seen it with my jackdaws.

To be honest, I do not like cats that much. I don't hate them and won't do them any harm ever ( I actually kicked a guy in his nads when he wanted to drown a kitten) , but I just don't like them that much.

I am more of a dog and crow person.

Social, get it?  Not some... nevermind.