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Why do people automatically believe


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#31    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:12 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

People who interpret their stories have tainted the information beyond usefulness. You are never going to get a straight story from someone who has seen an "Alien", a "UFO" on the other hand might be something worth listening to.

A real skeptic never says "never". They go where the evidence takes them. They know that there are both chaff and wheat to be found in claims of the paranormal. They don't believe that all claims are comprised of the same substance. :-)

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#32    psyche101

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 04:18 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 19 February 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

A real skeptic never says "never". They go where the evidence takes them. They know that there are both chaff and wheat to be found in claims of the paranormal. They don't believe that all claims are comprised of the same substance. :-)


I do not feel that is accurate, I am a real skeptic, and despite what you feel, I can confidently say

You are never going to grow wings and fly
you are never going to walk naked on the sun
you are never going to swim naked in open space

in fact the list could go indefinitely. And someone who has interpreted what they have seen is incapable of returning the event back to it's basics. They already know what they saw. To suggest otherwise is a waste of time.

There is being thorough, and then there is just wasting time. I feel wisdom lies in being able to differentiate the two.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#33    Jacques Terreur

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 05:58 AM

View Postscowl, on 18 February 2013 - 05:11 PM, said:

Instead people are now Photoshopping fake UFO photos, the Patterson footage is still the "best" evidence of Bigfoot, and ESP has been almost entirely debunked. Overall people are much more skeptical and cynical about these things now. I say things have improved.

ok, for a start: i totally agree it's a good thing that people are becoming more skeptical and don't eat gullibly every fairytale out
of the hands of a Billy Meier,  or that guy with a bigfoot in his freezer,  or whoever.....
BUT: the possibility of easily creating Photoshop or CGI hoaxes nowadays does not necessarily contribute to that attitude. Quite contrary, if there should be the "real thing" hidden somewhere between the piles of cr***y fake videos/photos, it will be even harder to detect. And this forum alone is proof enough that even the blurriest picture of a lamp reflecting in a window WILL find somebody to hail it as the real deal and definite proof of alien invasion. To make it short, i just can't see an improvement in that....


#34    scowl

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 06:06 PM

View PostJacques Terreur, on 19 February 2013 - 05:58 AM, said:

BUT: the possibility of easily creating Photoshop or CGI hoaxes nowadays does not necessarily contribute to that attitude.

I think it has. In the past most people didn't know what was involved in hoaxing a UFO photo. Many people thought that if the negatives hadn't been "tampered with" then these were photographs of genuine flying saucers. Of course there are dozens of ways to hoax a UFO on film (tampering with a negative is the clumsiest way) but these techniques weren't known to the general public. You only have to look at the huge following Ed Walters got from his obviously double-exposed UFO photos to see how gullible people were just twenty years ago.

Now we have ten year olds who can find an image of a UFO on the Internet, cut it, and paste into into a digital photo. In fact thanks to inexpensive digital photography, the techniques of photography are much better understood by people now.

Quote

Quite contrary, if there should be the "real thing" hidden somewhere between the piles of cr***y fake videos/photos, it will be even harder to detect.

It won't be hidden. It will stand out. There are some excellent UFO photos that don't appear to be hoaxes and remained unexplained.

The problem with photos is that they're just photos. They can't tell a story by themselves.

Quote

And this forum alone is proof enough that even the blurriest picture of a lamp reflecting in a window WILL find somebody to hail it as the real deal and definite proof of alien invasion. To make it short, i just can't see an improvement in that....

Who cares what "somebody" believes? You won't find reputable people saying it's proof.

Back in the 70's we had books, movies and network television specials all telling us that there were without a doubt flying saucers zipping through our skies and the government was covering it all up. After Watergate, who could say what other dirty secrets the government was keeping from us?

In the late 90's there was a push back in the media as many revered cases turned out to be hoaxes. Ed Walters was the first big case that made a lot of new skeptics. When the infamous Alien Autopsy footage arrived out of nowhere in 1995, instead of unconditional acceptance it received unprecedented skepticism. Wait, could someone have hoaxed an entire autopsy? It seemed impossible especially after the highly rated FOX special declared it authentic yet thanks to the Internet reputable people in the movie industry showed the flaws in the special effects and reputable coroners showed how the autopsy was done wrong.

After months went by without a single film frame of the autopsy being examined and the backstory becoming fishier and fishier, the opinion of the media changed. FOX aired another highly rated special on it, this time entirely skeptical. That's when a lot of people realized that they had been had. It was clear that technology now allowed some nobody to hoax fifty year old footage well enough to fool television networks and millions of people and make a ton of money. They even made a movie on how it had been faked. As long as everyone made money, no one would end up in court.

The networks had gotten burned and after that they have mostly ignored UFO reports and left them to cable shows and tabloid news. They've also been much better at reporting general science news after Dan Rather began CBS Nightly News with a report that our energy problems had finally been solved by the discovery of "cold fusion" which would change the world forever.


#35    regeneratia

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:17 PM

Perhaps you confuse belief with people who really just sit on the fence and still want to give respect to the teller, with people who do not dubiously feel the great need to tear people down and diminish the tellers dignity,  and with people do not seek to ridicule them like so vast many trolls on this forum. I mean, the ridicule on this forum has turned into sport. And I call those who ridicule trolls.

I am confused now. Which kind of person are you?
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View Postsupersonic, on 18 February 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

Anyone could make up an alien abduction story with a compelling, spine-chiller hook, then wrap it all around something that deals with peoples' primal fears of the unknown and end up with a massive lie about something that didn't happen, and swear by their life on it being true.

And people would believe them. Based only on their verbal testimony.

Sadly.

The point is, trying to have a friendly debate with someone who believes in crap like that is almost impossible, because let's face it, even though someone's story of a UFO sighting or whatever might scare you, or shock you, or make you feel stunned subconsciously, it doesn't necessarily mean that story actually dealt with a sighting of an alien machine.

Existential fallacies aren't good for you.


Edited by regeneratia, 19 February 2013 - 08:26 PM.

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#36    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 19 February 2013 - 08:45 PM

"Why do people automatically believe?"

Because they have boring lives.

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#37    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:08 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

I do not feel that is accurate, I am a real skeptic, and despite what you feel, I can confidently say

You are never going to grow wings and fly
you are never going to walk naked on the sun
you are never going to swim naked in open space

in fact the list could go indefinitely. And someone who has interpreted what they have seen is incapable of returning the event back to it's basics. They already know what they saw. To suggest otherwise is a waste of time.

There is being thorough, and then there is just wasting time. I feel wisdom lies in being able to differentiate the two.

There's where you're wrong. I have walked naked on the sun. It was quite hot and painful. I don't recommend it.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#38    Frank Merton

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:20 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 18 February 2013 - 04:19 AM, said:

That's true. On the other hand, why do some people feel the need to dismiss and dispute all stories that take them out of their comfort zones? Not all witnesses are dishonest, and not all witnesses are mistaken. Some accounts are valid.
You know, I don't think so.  In some areas all witnesses are either deluded in some way or making money.  Also, it has nothing to do with one's comfort zone, but with one's credibility zone.  I believe all sorts of things that I wish were not true (wars, diseases, death), but I don't believe these stories.


#39    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:28 AM

View PostDetective Mystery 2013, on 20 February 2013 - 03:08 AM, said:

There's where you're wrong. I have walked naked on the sun. It was quite hot and painful. I don't recommend it.


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Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#40    _Only

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:51 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 19 February 2013 - 04:18 AM, said:

You are never going to grow wings and fly
you are never going to walk naked on the sun
you are never going to swim naked in open space

I did all of those things in my mind just now, because you know what I wasn't limited by? My imagination.

See you on the Sun. I'll be the naked guy with the wings.

I'll also have one sock on, just in case there are other naked people with wings with me.

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#41    Detective Mystery 2014

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 03:59 AM

View PostFrank Merton, on 20 February 2013 - 03:20 AM, said:

You know, I don't think so.  In some areas all witnesses are either deluded in some way or making money.  Also, it has nothing to do with one's comfort zone, but with one's credibility zone.  I believe all sorts of things that I wish were not true (wars, diseases, death), but I don't believe these stories.

That is your right. The key words in your post are "in some areas". I agree with you there, but not all witnesses are deluded or dishonest. The Phoenix Lights case comes to mind.

There is one reality with billions of versions.

#42    Kipperphoenix

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:07 AM

Why do people automatically believe people? Simple, as long as you sound like you know what you're talking about and have good word choice, you can have people believing almost anything.

Check out my paranormal news blog on Tumblr! TheParanormalBlog.Tumblr.com

#43    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:09 AM

View Post_Only, on 20 February 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

I did all of those things in my mind just now, because you know what I wasn't limited by? My imagination.

See you on the Sun. I'll be the naked guy with the wings.

I'll also have one sock on, just in case there are other naked people with wings with me.


No worries, you go there in your imagination, in the real world, I'll have a cold frosty beer, lets see how comes out the most fulfilled!

And thanks for proving my point! :)

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.


#44    Nathan DiYorio

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 04:36 AM

View Postsupersonic, on 18 February 2013 - 03:53 AM, said:

trying to have a friendly debate with someone who believes in crap like that is almost impossible

It's almost impossible for you to have a friendly conversation with people who have different beliefs from yours because you regard other beliefs as "crap."

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#45    psyche101

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Posted 20 February 2013 - 05:02 AM

View PostKipperphoenix, on 20 February 2013 - 04:07 AM, said:

Why do people automatically believe people? Simple, as long as you sound like you know what you're talking about and have good word choice, you can have people believing almost anything.


In his book, TOP SECRET/MAJIC, Stanton Friedman discusses his early UFO lectures:


"As I gave more lectures, I found that I enjoyed speaking, and that people believed me no matter what I said. After all, I was a nuclear physicist for Westinghouse…"

Edited by psyche101, 20 February 2013 - 05:03 AM.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo 'If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants.' - Sir Isaac Newton. "Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit." Ed Stewart. Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs. Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Sir Wearer of Hats.





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