106 replies to this topic

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 12 January 2013 - 07:02 AM, said:

If they can't deny that he worked for NASA or really made such a statement--which is very unusual for NASA--then they'll just try to minimize its significance.

It's not hard to minimize the significance of a so-called 'Apollo senior scientist' who would have been -- do the math -- 17 years old [or so, what do you think?] at the time of the moon landing, wouldn't you agree? And he seems to have been relaying rumors about
astronauts not talking about "the UFO subject" in public [heck, even Cooper reported that, as being due to all the nonsensical fabrications in the popular press], without Baker actually ever claiming that any astronauts saw any UFOs during any space flights. Or did I miss that claim?

You seem to LIVE for the ambiguity of quotation snippets that YOU can then try to force YOUR interpretation on, related to "what he was trying to say" -- but didn't, despite your best efforts at misinterpretation and over-imagination.

[Hazzard]

I have heard Buzz talk about that UFO many times,... never ever does he say that he believes it to be ET in origin.

[Lava_Lady]

DONTEATUS, on 12 January 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Yea ! Im a delusional,idiot And that makes me twice as crazy Ive Seen Two ! "Sweet"

I will join you, if you don't mind.  I don't presume to know everything about this planet, the universe it's in or beyond and if admitting that makes me a delusional idiot in some peoples eyes then so be it.

Fortunately, comment such as those come from the nugatory of our own species and mean absolutely nothing.  

[DONTEATUS]

Lava_Lady, on 12 January 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

I will join you, if you don't mind.  I don't presume to know everything about this planet, the universe it's in or beyond and if admitting that makes me a delusional idiot in some peoples eyes then so be it.

Fortunately, comment such as those come from the nugatory of our own species and mean absolutely nothing.  

So true in all resspects of our beings here on earth ! We are afterall the sum total of the most creative Happening in the known Universe as far as our point of prespective ! I too Am crazy as a Loon,and by far One of the most Died in the Wool believers. What I saw back in the 80`s will live with me forever !
And whos to say I didnt see what I saw ? They can say all they want,but They didnt see what I saw ! There bad ! My Glad ! Just Keep Looking  I say !

[ouija ouija]

JimOberg, on 12 January 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

It's not hard to minimize the significance of a so-called 'Apollo senior scientist' who would have been -- do the math -- 17 years old [or so, what do you think?] at the time of the moon landing, wouldn't you agree? .

Where did you get David Baker's age from? I can't find it anywhere.

[TheMacGuffin]

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Where did you get David Baker's age from? I can't find it anywhere.

He didn't.  He made it up.

"David Baker is a British citizen, David translated an early love of aviation, flying and space technology into a career that has seen him work all over the world in a variety of professional capacities. From school in Hertfordshire he went to university in the US and obtained a Ph.D in physics before moving laterally to take engineering degrees that took him to NASA and the US aerospace community in the early 1960s.Joining the space programme during the Apollo years he worked to develop advanced concepts for keeping astronauts on the moon for extended periods. This culminated in the last three Apollo flights, each staying three days on the moon for geological exploration using a rover vehicle.

During the 1960s he also worked for a brief period with the US Department of Defence on the Igloo White programme, now a declassified intelligence gathering activity in Vietnam. From there David worked on development of NASA’s Shuttle and, later during the 1980s, to commercialise payloads and to integrate aerospace technologies in Asian countries."

http://www.apogeepri...1926837109.html

[Lava_Lady]

DONTEATUS, on 12 January 2013 - 06:29 PM, said:

So true in all resspects of our beings here on earth ! We are afterall the sum total of the most creative Happening in the known Universe as far as our point of prespective ! I too Am crazy as a Loon,and by far One of the most Died in the Wool believers. What I saw back in the 80`s will live with me forever !
And whos to say I didnt see what I saw ? They can say all they want,but They didnt see what I saw ! There bad ! My Glad ! Just Keep Looking  I say !

Yup, no one saw what you saw, nothing is absolute in this existence.  To adhere to one point of view without an open mind is truly limiting in ones personal growth.

There's also a bullying quality to behavior like this.  It's the punk kid in the playground picking on the smart kid for understanding something he didn't take the time to learn in the first place.  But, out of fear, some of the other kids will join in the harassment.

Saying you believe in something in this forum takes some amount of courage because if it's something out of the norm you will get ripped to shreds.

Being a skeptic is a good thing, questions should be asked, points should definitely be debated but with an open mind.

[TheMacGuffin]

Lava_Lady, on 12 January 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

There's also a bullying quality to behavior like this.  It's the punk kid in the playground picking on the smart kid for understanding something he didn't take the time to learn in the first place.  But, out of fear, some of the other kids will join in the harassment.

Saying you believe in something in this forum takes some amount of courage because if it's something out of the norm you will get ripped to shreds.

Yes, you will, but I can rip them right back and have done so many times--like right now.

I'm just wondering what they will say to help cover up for Oberg on this one, like they always do.  I'm sure they have their little thinking caps on.

Edited by TheMacGuffin, 12 January 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[White Unicorn]

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Where did you get David Baker's age from? I can't find it anywhere.

I agree with that comment...even if it were true back in that era  it was normal for men to enter military careers at 16 and talented kids were recruited by companies for apprenticeships while completing formal higher educational training.

[JimOberg]

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

Where did you get David Baker's age from? I can't find it anywhere.

On the video, what would you estimate a likely range of ages, based on appearance? And when was the video made?

I've been in email contact with David for many years, and he's now with the British Interplanetary Society. I got the impression he was about my age, perhaps slightly younger.

Neither of us was a 'senior scientist' during Apollo. I know the people who were.

Edited by JimOberg, 12 January 2013 - 10:04 PM.

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 12 January 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

- post removed -

Example, please?

[JimOberg]

TheMacGuffin, on 12 January 2013 - 05:33 PM, said:

....In this case, I have caught him in yet another flagrant and blatant falsehood, since Dr. David Baker worked on the Gemini, Apollo and Space Shuttle programs from 1965 to 1984.  Oberg must know that, but as I pointed out before, I knew exactly what he would try to do with anyone at NASA who mentioned UFOs and ETs. http://www.wired.com...ht_david_baker/  

Good link, thanks!

But you seem to have a fundamental problem with reading for comprehension. You claim he worked on the gemini program, when what he said was


"Wired.com: You joined NASA back in the Apollo days, right?
Baker: In the mid-1960s, during the Gemini program. It was a very different time to that which exists today. NASA was a very different institution. "

Now, everybody who joined NASA in the mid-1960s during the gemini program didn't work on the gemini program -- only some of them. and Baker never said he worked on the Gemini program, but you claim he said he did, so ihink we see again that you read into things far more meaning than the writers of those things ever intended.

So we have a better estimate of his age: He joined NASA in about 1966, as a young man, say out of college, aged 21-22, and that makes him 25 years old at the time of the Apollo landing.

I'll buy that.

How does that make him a 'senior scientist'?

And by the way, the quotes you supplied also never said that he said that any astronaut on any spaceflight had ever seen any UFO. Can you read the English accurately?

[DONTEATUS]

Lava_Lady, on 12 January 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

Yup, no one saw what you saw, nothing is absolute in this existence.  To adhere to one point of view without an open mind is truly limiting in ones personal growth.

There's also a bullying quality to behavior like this.  It's the punk kid in the playground picking on the smart kid for understanding something he didn't take the time to learn in the first place.  But, out of fear, some of the other kids will join in the harassment.

Saying you believe in something in this forum takes some amount of courage because if it's something out of the norm you will get ripped to shreds.

Being a skeptic is a good thing, questions should be asked, points should definitely be debated but with an open mind.

Well its good to Keep the mind open,as long as too much dosnt flow out that drains the grey matter to a lower level than one starts ! THere is a bit of bullying in here,but in general this is the BEst Forum on the Planet ,as we know it .
And its people like you that make it a wonderful place to read & post !

[ouija ouija]

JimOberg, on 12 January 2013 - 10:00 PM, said:

But you seem to have a fundamental problem with reading for comprehension. You claim he worked on the gemini program, when what he said was

"Wired.com: You joined NASA back in the Apollo days, right?
Baker: In the mid-1960s, during the Gemini program. It was a very different time to that which exists today. NASA was a very different institution. "

Now, everybody who joined NASA in the mid-1960s during the gemini program didn't work on the gemini program -- only some of them. and Baker never said he worked on the Gemini program, but you claim he said he did, so ihink we see again that you read into things far more meaning than the writers of those things ever intended.

So we have a better estimate of his age: He joined NASA in about 1966, as a young man, say out of college, aged 21-22, and that makes him 25 years old at the time of the Apollo landing.

I'll buy that.

How does that make him a 'senior scientist'?

And by the way, the quotes you supplied also never said that he said that any astronaut on any spaceflight had ever seen any UFO. Can you read the English accurately?

It also doesn't state that he didn't work on the Gemini Program. You are claiming the opposite  to TheMacGuffin with the same quote that doesn't tell us either way!
I guess whether you are considered 'senior' or not depends on your level of knowledge and understanding of your subject ..... age doesn't really come into it.

Edited by ouija ouija, 12 January 2013 - 11:04 PM.

[JimOberg]

ouija ouija, on 12 January 2013 - 11:03 PM, said:

It also doesn't state that he didn't work on the Gemini Program. You are claiming the opposite  to TheMacGuffin with the same quote that doesn't tell us either way!
I guess whether you are considered 'senior' or not depends on your level of knowledge and understanding of your subject ..... age doesn't really come into it.

This is pretty convoluted verbal pretzeling. MacG says the article says Baker worked on Gemini. I suggest he misread or misunderstood, or just elaborated on the article. with no justification in the actual content. You're saying that even if the article did NOT say Baker worked on Gemini [which you implicitly imply], he might have secretly, snd MacG was just a good guesser.

The issue is worth bringing up because many examples of this misreporting of sources have been documented for MacG over recent months. He honestly seems to believe the articles say what he guesses thery say because he often does provide URLs, but very often the cited arfticles really don't say what MacG claims they said. It's just good to have a pattern to assess the believability of stuff he alleges he read elsewhere but can't provide a link for verification.

Calling somebody a 'liar' when it's your own self that is veracity-challenged is generally a school-yard counter accusation, generally from people who know they are the ones lying. Especially when anhy examples of the accused 'lyimng' are as nebulous and misinterpreted as other factual allegations.

You're also conjuring up 'special pleading' to excuse the dubious claim the kid was a 'senior scientist', and note how you are assuming facts not in evidence about his competency, to explain a clearly awkward expertise assertion. It's like the folks who insist that Ken Johnston, a 25-year-old High School graduate with electronics repair experience, would be picked by NASA as the head of their Apollo surface imagery archives. Or Maurice Chatelain, a contract engineer in California in the mid-1960s [terminated about 1966], was 'Chief of NASA Communications" during the moon landings. You'll see a pattern here of people stepping forward with delicious space UFO stories, whose 'insider credentials' turn out to be as bogus as the stories. And the reality can be independently verified -- that's another stark difference between my reports and those from McG.



Live with it.