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Is Allah the same as God in the Bible?


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#31    libstaK

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:39 AM

Yes it is the same God, as some Muslim friends have pointed out the OT of the Bible is a book studied in Islam, Jesus is a Prophet recognised in Islam.  Jews, Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

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#32    odas

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 10:47 AM

View PostPhilangeli, on 20 June 2012 - 09:24 AM, said:

Hi everyone.

Many thanks for your replies, and apologies if I came across a bit short with anyone.
I am not saying in my OP that I definitely believe that Allah and God are not the same. I was throwing it out for discussion, as I am not sure myself.

However, just to clarify (as one or two posts seemed to misunderstand): 'god' and 'God' are not the same. 'God' (capital G) is the English word to denote the supreme, omnipotent being, whereas 'god' is a lesser being (whether real or imagined).
Theos (Greek), Deus (Latin) and Jehovah/Yahweh (Hebrew) are equivalent terms. They are names, or labels, which denote, or point to, the one, supreme being.

Dios, btw, is just Spanish for God (originating from the Latin Deus).

The question in the OP is: does the name, Allah, point to the one, supreme being, as revealed in the Bible, in the same way as God/Theos/Deus/Yahweh does, or, does the name, Allah, point to one of the multiple gods worshipped at the time of Mohammed, which was then subsequently elevated by Mohammed to the status of supreme, 'numero uno' being, .ie. is the being which muslims worship the same as the being which Christians and Jews worship?

If the answer is yes, then why, throughout history, have muslims tried (often successfully) to islamicize other peoples, when those peoples already believed in the same being?

If the answer is no, then, are muslims (albeit unwittingly) worshipping a pagan god?

As it was pointed out earlier but for some reason ignored, arab speaking christians have one name for God and that is Allah. Why? Because it is what it is in arabic. How many of you are fluent in greek or latin? Likely not many but still are quiet confident that Theos and Dios are the same God like the one in the bible.
Also, ask any nonbiased jew if he thinks that the gid of ot is the same god of nt and the answer will likely be no. Why?


#33    hetrodoxly

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:10 PM

View PostUncle Pockets, on 20 June 2012 - 09:25 AM, said:


The Prophets father died before he was born. He was raised by his uncle, Abu Talib, after his mother passed. What relevance would that hold?
You have to read my posts to understand, but i'll write it again, Mohammed's pagan father abdallah who's name means servant of Allah, who is the Allah he was servant to?

Thank god i'm an athiest.

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#34    hetrodoxly

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:12 PM

View Postodas, on 20 June 2012 - 10:47 AM, said:

arab speaking christians have one name for God and that is Allah. Why?
Because they speak modern Arabic.

Thank god i'm an athiest.

Veni, vidi, Vertigo, i came i saw i couldn't get down.
Hetrodoxly.

#35    Uncle Pockets

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 05:56 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 20 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

You have to read my posts to understand, but i'll write it again, Mohammed's pagan father abdallah who's name means servant of Allah, who is the Allah he was servant to?

If you are breaking his name down then it means slave of Allah(God.) Some of these arabs fully believed that this is the same God of Christianity and Judaism. The arabs slipped from monotheism and their belief into oneness that was taught by Ishmael (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh) into idols that can intercede for them in their supplication to God.

So, can I say that he may have believed in God? He may have, but you cannot associate partners with the Creator. I will get a more detailed answer for you on this subject by a person who knows much better on the topic than I.

Edited by Uncle Pockets, 20 June 2012 - 06:01 PM.


#36    odas

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:38 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 20 June 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:


You have to read my posts to understand, but i'll write it again, Mohammed's pagan father abdallah who's name means servant of Allah, who is the Allah he was servant to?

Exactley that is why I used the pagan, prechristian names Gottfried, Bogoljub...and asked you the same question. Who is the god in question? Why do you set different standards for the same example?
Also, noone answered my question if the god from the ot is the same god of the nt. I would like to hear from a christian as well from a jewish person.




#37    odas

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 06:44 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 20 June 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:


Because they speak modern Arabic.

??? Where is the cutoff for the "old" arabic?
Ever popped in you mind that arab christians called god Allah before Muhammed was even born?


#38    No-thingBornPassion

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 07:18 PM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 17 June 2012 - 12:13 AM, said:

This old chestnut has been debated many times on this board, i'll ask two questions that i've asked before but never had an answer, Mohammed's father was called Abdallah the Arabic translation is "servant of god" who was the god he was servant of?
Semantics, perhaps? The word "god" is the root of the confusion. Humans, in their bodily form, are not capable of defining something infinitely otherworldly. We don't have the right words, first of all. We can't even agree on art, let alone God(?). Then again, there's the "flow," and many call it the Holy Spirit. I believe it's in this world to give hope that there's a reality after this lifetime. Some even say that it incarnates, and Jesus Christ, Krishna, Horus, and Mithra are one and the same cyclical being, if you will. Is the "flow" god of the OT? That, I do not know, and it's becoming trendy among gurus, saints, and conduits to shrug their shoulders and say, "...I don't know." What we all know is that it, the "flow," is capable of opening one's tightly closed heart. It is love beyond compare, after all.

Edited by braveone2u, 20 June 2012 - 07:19 PM.


#39    hetrodoxly

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:08 PM

View Postodas, on 20 June 2012 - 06:38 PM, said:

Exactley that is why I used the pagan, prechristian names Gottfried, Bogoljub...and asked you the same question. Who is the god in question? Why do you set different standards for the same example?
Also, noone answered my question if the god from the ot is the same god of the nt. I would like to hear from a christian as well from a jewish person.
It's not the same, Gottfried is not Gott as abdallah isn't Allah but Allah is a boys name, would people really call there child god, and before you reply "Gottfried is not Gott"

Thank god i'm an athiest.

Veni, vidi, Vertigo, i came i saw i couldn't get down.
Hetrodoxly.

#40    hetrodoxly

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:19 PM

View Postodas, on 20 June 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

??? Where is the cutoff for the "old" arabic?
Ever popped in you mind that arab christians called god Allah before Muhammed was even born?
Yes, but up till now i've only found Allah the pagan god and his three daughters, a pre Islamic bible in Arabic would settle it, well it would for those seeking the truth :D

Thank god i'm an athiest.

Veni, vidi, Vertigo, i came i saw i couldn't get down.
Hetrodoxly.

#41    hetrodoxly

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Posted 20 June 2012 - 08:44 PM

View PostUncle Pockets, on 20 June 2012 - 05:56 PM, said:

If you are breaking his name down then it means slave of Allah(God.) Some of these arabs fully believed that this is the same God of Christianity and Judaism. The arabs slipped from monotheism and their belief into oneness that was taught by Ishmael (pbuh) and Abraham (pbuh) into idols that can intercede for them in their supplication to God.

So, can I say that he may have believed in God? He may have, but you cannot associate partners with the Creator. I will get a more detailed answer for you on this subject by a person who knows much better on the topic than I.
I don't understand your post or it could be you didn't understand mine? Mohamed's father worshipped the 360 gods in the kaaba this is before Mohamed invented Islam there was no conceived link to Abraham
Mohammeds father was servant or slave (whichever translation you prefer to use) to Allha who must be one of the 360 idols.

Thank god i'm an athiest.

Veni, vidi, Vertigo, i came i saw i couldn't get down.
Hetrodoxly.

#42    Uncle Pockets

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 01:27 AM

View Posthetrodoxly, on 20 June 2012 - 08:44 PM, said:

I don't understand your post or it could be you didn't understand mine? Mohamed's father worshipped the 360 gods in the kaaba this is before Mohamed invented Islam there was no conceived link to Abraham
Mohammeds father was servant or slave (whichever translation you prefer to use) to Allha who must be one of the 360 idols.

Spoken to a brother more studied on the topic than I and after a few words he guided me to this.

http://www.marifah.n...dinalsuyuti.pdf

You asked as to who was he a servant to and I stated to you that it was a strong possibility that it was God, and I was not qualified to state anything that was unknown to me in hopes of making a point sir.

Ibn al-Jawzī enumerates in al-Talqīh the names of nine who refused to worship

idols in the time of the Jahiliyya: Abū Bakr al-Siddīq, Zayd ibn `Amr ibn Nufayl,
`Abdullāh ibn Jahsh, `Uthmān ibn al-Huwayrith, Waraqā ibn Nawfal, Rabab ibn alBarrā’, As`ad ibn Kurayb al-Humayrī, Qass ibn Sa`īda al-Iyādī, Abū Qays ibn Sarma.


#43    Philangeli

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:24 AM

View PostlibstaK, on 20 June 2012 - 10:39 AM, said:

Yes it is the same God, as some Muslim friends have pointed out the OT of the Bible is a book studied in Islam, Jesus is a Prophet recognised in Islam.  Jews, Christians and Muslims are all children of Abraham.
The Bible may well be studied in Islam, but do muslims actually believe in it, particularly the New Testament, e.g. that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins?

Mohammed was surely aware of some Christian teachings, as there were Christians in the area where he lived. However, those teachings were largely agnostic, e.g. the agnostics believed that Jesus did not die on the cross, that a substitute died in his place. It seems likely that Mohammed took on board some (agnostic) Christian and Jewish teachings to bolster his case for his new religion.

From my knowledge, muslims only study the Bible in order to try and discover things that might support their islamic beliefs, e.g. some muslims believe that Mohammed is mentioned in the Bible.

Philangeli


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#44    tyrant lizard

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 07:47 AM

Abraham worshipped one God. The same Abraham can be found in Christianity, Judsism and Islam. That suggests God and Allah are the same


#45    libstaK

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Posted 21 June 2012 - 09:33 AM

View PostPhilangeli, on 21 June 2012 - 07:24 AM, said:

The Bible may well be studied in Islam, but do muslims actually believe in it, particularly the New Testament, e.g. that Jesus is the Son of God who died on the cross for our sins?

Mohammed was surely aware of some Christian teachings, as there were Christians in the area where he lived. However, those teachings were largely agnostic, e.g. the agnostics believed that Jesus did not die on the cross, that a substitute died in his place. It seems likely that Mohammed took on board some (agnostic) Christian and Jewish teachings to bolster his case for his new religion.

From my knowledge, muslims only study the Bible in order to try and discover things that might support their islamic beliefs, e.g. some muslims believe that Mohammed is mentioned in the Bible.
Philangeli if they believed the new testament they would be Christians not Muslims, if Jews believed the new testament they too would be Christians - wait, that's right the first christians were converted Jews. :innocent:

Agnostics by definition are those who have not yet decided that the evidence is sufficient to believe in God or Jesus or any form of Deity - you are thinking of Gnostics, there are christian gnostics who will happily state Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, he is "The Son of God". The notion of a "substitute" is not something I've spent any time on, nor have any interest in - I've yet to see anything "substantial" on the matter so I'll let others address it if they feel it worth the time tbh.

"I warn you, whoever you are, oh you who wish to probe the arcanes of nature, if you do not find within yourself that which you seek, neither shall you find it outside.
If you ignore the excellencies of your own house, how do you intend to find other excellencies?
In you is hidden the treasure of treasures, Oh man, know thyself and you shall know the Universe and the Gods."

Inscription - Temple of Delphi




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