Is it possible that some demons to be good?

[Crystal Rose]

So I'm doing some more research on demons. I have found that not all demons are evil or have bad intentions. So what I want? I want stories! Anyone have actual experience on a demon saving their life? Or keeping them out of danger? Oh and please no cyber bullying or trolling. If you don't like what I suggest then butt out. I do want the truth and I wish for any that are afraid to say anything to be brave enough to please.

Thanks

[freetoroam]

So I'm doing some more research on demons. I have found that not all demons are evil or have bad intein tions. So what I want? I want stories! Anyone have actual experience on a demon saving their life? Or keeping them out of danger? Oh and please no cyber bullying or trolling. If you don't like what I suggest then butt out. I do want the truth and I wish for any that are afraid to say anything to be brave enough to please.

Thanks

What demons have you found are not evil?

In fact, what demons have you found?

I would imagine if a person thinks they have been saved by an entity, they would not be calling it a good demon, but more like a guardian angel.

As for the truth you want, what does that entail? So far the only demons proven to exists have been in peoples heads, they can be there for numerous reasons....schizophrenia and substance abuse are the most common.

You can not ask people to butt out on a forum where you are asking for a "truth" which will always be up for completely different opinions, one of those opinions is = there are no actual demons, other than those described above.

Research will generally lead the researcher coming up with certain conclusions and beliefs based on their actual findings, so as you have been researching this, what have you found for you to follow the path of their existance?

[Crystal Rose]

I do think you misunderstood me a tad. I will be specific, I won't tolerate others attacking me or others who respond to this forum. I also don't want to see others say "you should go ahead and die or kill yourself" because of one's beliefs.

And what I meant by truth is simply truthful experiences, not something made up. I will know. (Don't ask how cause I will not get into that)

And likely guy, I'm not on here often, how do I report this to get it moved?

Now on my experiences, or at least some of them. I've had "feelings" of being watched, followed. I've had scratches, bruises and pains that show up for no reason. I've talked with people possessed. I helped many people with possessions. The eyes turn colors sometimes. The most common color being red or black. They often have this look of pure hatred or this "I am going to kill you" look. There is a hostile energy around them that screams at you to run. (Or for people like me, to get ready for a nasty fight). The person's personality changes on a dime.

I've also experienced "channeling" (not me personally, I refuse to have anything take control of me)

These people are possessed by beings that mean good intentions. Again change of voice and personality. I have not noticed any difference in eye color as of yet, but the facial expression does change to what the being is feeling. The energy also changes to the intentions of the entity.

Does this help explain anything?

[Two of Hearts]

i've had an astral experience with a very powerful succubus, did post my experience here when it happened, and fresh in the head, tho i got ridiculed and i had to look for answers about it elsewhere, no1 here seems to have experience with demons so i wouldn't come here asking for that all you'll find here is people who deny the fact they exist.

[freetoroam]

i've had an astral experience with a very powerful succubus, did post my experience here when it happened, and fresh in the head, tho i got ridiculed and i had to look for answers about it elsewhere, no1 here seems to have experience with demons so i wouldn't come here asking for that all you'll find here is people who deny the fact they exist.

Do you have any facts to prove they do? other than what you feel and what`s in your head.

I am a sceptic, BUT am open to being shown proof and facts to back up the demons are real claim. So far, there has been nothing to back up any physical existence of demons and I can not (certainly being a sceptic) be swayed into accepting someones mental images as proof.

I am certainly not in the realms of trying to ridicule believers, I just want to be shown some actual proof.

[Taun]

I share freetoroams skepticism of demons actually existing...

But lets look at this as a "thought exercise" or a "Logic exercise"...

I will look at this primarily from a Christian perspective, as I am not familiar enough with other religions to argue their point of view...

It is my understanding that "In the beginning" there were no "demons"... There was God (perhaps exising already as "the trinity") and there were

lesser divine beings called Angels (which comes from a word meaning "Messenger")... Whether "God" created the Angels or not is immaterial to this arguement...

It is implied that "Creation" (i.e. making something from absolutely nothing) is a power reserved solely to God ("The Creator")... So therefore, Angels can not "create"...

According to some, there was a war (or philosophical difference of opinion) in "heaven" and a certain number of Angels were defeated and cast out... These

must have become the "Demons" (simply a change of title)- as the Cast out Angels do not have the power of Creation and therefore (logically) can not create "Demons"...

If theses "fallen Angels" are indeed Demons, then that implies that God allows them to work their mischief - as "Guardian Angels" would surely interviene in favor of the

afflicted human - since a loving God can not expect a mere human to be able to defeat the efforts of an immortal, at least semi-divine being that was powerful enough to

actually challenge God... So, where are the Guardian Angels and why do so many people feel that "Demons" constantly contact them and tempt them or "bedevil them"?

If Guardian Angels (the ones that were powerful enough to assist God in defeating the others, remember) can not stop these "demons", then the Demons are as powerful,

which means that they are as powerful as God - which basically negates the entire belief that God is All-Powerful...

Now, there is some liturgical evidence that this supposed "war" never happened... and that Lucifer/Satan is simply Gods "Prosecuting Angel" - or "Tester", and

is doing Gods will by testing the faith of humans... If this is the case, then logically there are no actual Demons - just (at worst) Lucifer performing his role as

"Tester"...

So using this Logical arguement, it appears to me that "Demons" do not exist...

I'm just coming up with this off the top of my head, and I am sure that there are aspects I have not covered well... But still IMO, the "evidence" points to the non-existence of "Demons"...

Edited August 21, 2015 by Taun

[rashore]

I suppose hypothetically..... If there can be fallen angels that are considered to be evil there could be demons that could be considered to be good. But that is really just a biblical notion in that context. There are also demons from other parts of the world too to consider. Like in some of the Asian cultures demons can be really harmful, or only harmful if provoked, to pretty harmless or even helpful depending on the demon and situation. Demons in some Middle Eastern lores change it out a bit too from the classic biblical version.

So I guess in a way it depends on what labels you want to attach to things, and what meaning you want to make of that.

Me personally, never met a demon, good or evil.

[glorybebe]

From what I have read, once Christianity was founded, Pagan God's became labeled as demons. If you look at it that way, then there are a lot of Demons out there that had interacted with humans for thousands of years before Christianity.

People always have to throw angels into the mix. I was talking about my guardian spirit and some one said you mean your guardian angel. I said no, my guardian spirit. (Who woke me up just before I would have driven over a cliff.)

Edited August 21, 2015 by glorybebe

[Crystal Rose]

i've had an astral experience with a very powerful succubus, did post my experience here when it happened, and fresh in the head, tho i got ridiculed and i had to look for answers about it elsewhere, no1 here seems to have experience with demons so i wouldn't come here asking for that all you'll find here is people who deny the fact they exist.

I'm sorry I wasn't available to help you. If you still need help just message me.

[Crystal Rose]

As for proving demons to be real, well it is literally impossible. The reason is one can prove something isn't real much easier than to try to prove something is. Anyone can poo-poo anything away. Although on a Christian view; why does the bible mention demons if they don't exist? Also if angels and God exists, why not demons?

These were a couple of my thoughts when I was a Christian.

I will say this; to know if demons are real, one has to meet them or have an experience with them.

Sometimes the things we can not see, can not be proven.

Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

[Two of Hearts]

What demons have you found are not evil?

In fact, what demons have you found?

I would imagine if a person thinks they have been saved by an entity, they would not be calling it a good demon, but more like a guardian angel.

As for the truth you want, what does that entail? So far the only demons proven to exists have been in peoples heads, they can be there for numerous reasons....schizophrenia and substance abuse are the most common.

You can not ask people to butt out on a forum where you are asking for a "truth" which will always be up for completely different opinions, one of those opinions is = there are no actual demons, other than those described above.

Research will generally lead the researcher coming up with certain conclusions and beliefs based on their actual findings, so as you have been researching this, what have you found for you to follow the path of their existance?

get back to me when you know how to take cameras or phones into the astral realm and back again. but as presenting proof on such multidimensional beings, i doubt this will ever happen. if you don't think they are just be unlucky enough to experience one. and when i say demons i'm referring to other dimensional beings that are not human, but leech and feed from\off energy i shouldn't call them demons because people think i'm religious i'm not i don't believe in any religion and still a strong follower of science till the day i die. however i do 100% believe in dimensional beings or as many call them, demons.

as for op, its hard to tell what "good" and not "good" if we bring in non-human entities they have a different mindset to us and thus a different take on the subject

as for it being all in the mind\head i'm not crazy at all. i don't do any form of drugs, and i'm healthy in the body and mind. i'll never change of view of them not being real anymore. our science can not prove or disprove another dimension because its laws are different. so if you do really want proof you're just going to have to be unlucky and gain hands on experience with them. then get ridiculed that you're crazy or its your mind.eyes,brain etcetera and i say ridiculed because its the way people reply , they "imply" that you're simply just a nut bag and have a long list of wiki'd mind faults lol.

sorry op i'll just reply to you now on i don't want to derail the thread in anyway.

[Just_Seeking]

Maybe you should try this in the religious forum you'd probably get different results.

[rashore]

As for proving demons to be real, well it is literally impossible. The reason is one can prove something isn't real much easier than to try to prove something is. Anyone can poo-poo anything away. Although on a Christian view; why does the bible mention demons if they don't exist? Also if angels and God exists, why not demons?

These were a couple of my thoughts when I was a Christian.

I will say this; to know if demons are real, one has to meet them or have an experience with them.

Sometimes the things we can not see, can not be proven.

Just because we can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Sooooo.. I guess a good question might be.. are you looking for strictly a biblical interpretation of demons? I would hazard a guess that you are looking for only a biblical interpretation of such entities and stories from like minded people that have had goodly encounters with biblical based demonic entities.

If so, you are looking to accept responses from less than a third to less than a quarter of the members here on UM that are religiously inclined. Please note that there is a goodly percentage of folks here on UM that are not religiously inclined that may view and comment on your thread or are inclined but have some very different views on what demons are according to their own belief systems. So that third to quarter might drop a lot.

And I would seriously disagree that it is literally impossible to prove demons are real. It is absolutely literally possible to prove they are real- or not. It may or may not be within the realms of science as of this moment to prove the existence or not of such entities to an extent that gives confirmation to the masses.

[XenoFish]

In the world of ideas; angels and demons are not different. They are exactly what you expect them to be.

[Nimscha]

Meh, even if we could get substantial proof of the existence of demon related activity (e.g. head spinning, pea soup vomiting, telekinesis, preternatural strength, levitation, etc.), I think the scientific community would sooner look at psychological phenomena to explain it before they even seriously entertained the "demons did it" hypothesis. Right now, all we really have to observe is the activity presumably caused by demons, and that's not enough to prove that a specific type of entity is the cause.

It might not be literally impossible, but it's close. Just my opinion.

Has anyone ever considered that maybe, in a world where they do exist(as long as there is no proof, I can not talk as if there is), them harming people is not their intention? Imagine that we live on top of another dimension, and we constantly bash into things we can not physically sense since it's out of ours, would it be right to say that we intend to harm those other dimensional creatures?

Edit: Did not read the context - just replied to the "Evil" part in demons.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Minscha

[Crystal Rose]

I suppose that depends on how you define "demon." Some cultures considered certain entities to be demons, whereas other cultures considered them to be gods. There's also the Goetic demons, some of whom are friendlier than not.

As for personal experiences - Some members here may disagree with my methods of communication, but whatever or whomever I contacted claimed to be a demon and the alleged demon was not entirely unpleasant. He wasn't exactly kind and he didn't keep me from danger that I'm aware of, but he was funny.

Ooh can you tell me what happened? How you contacted him and why? And what did he say? Story time!

As for the discussion; wow it's fascinating to see peeps' ideas on this. And nope not just biblical but any story on the subject of good demons and personal experience.

[Likely Guy]

In the world of ideas; angels and demons are not different. They are exactly what you expect them to be.

Angels and demons. I talk to them every day.

When I deal with other people the angels win out. With myself, the demons speak a little loud, but they're a lot of fun.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Likely Guy

[Lumpino]

So I'm doing some more research on demons. I have found that not all demons are evil or have bad intentions. So what I want? I want stories! Anyone have actual experience on a demon saving their life? Or keeping them out of danger? Oh and please no cyber bullying or trolling. If you don't like what I suggest then butt out. I do want the truth and I wish for any that are afraid to say anything to be brave enough to please.

Thanks

When I was young, so I tried some evocations of a supernatural beings. Evocations a demons too. If all demons were downright bad, I would not write here. I would not be alive.

Edited August 22, 2015 by Lumpino

[Nimscha]

If cases of demonic possession are truly caused by demons, I'd say, based on the demons' behavior and remarks, that their intentions are to harm people. I find it difficult to believe that a demon would "accidentally" spew a nonstop torrent of the vilest profanity while hurling furniture at everyone in the immediate vicinity. Unless all demons have Hollywood Tourette's?

I highly doubt spirits can possess material objects, as much as we can possess spiritual objects. Hollywood, well, I see what you mean. I didn't read the entire board, my apology.

[Lumpino]

I never mentioned spirits possessing material objects. I said demons possessing people and then swearing and throwing things, which seem to be fairly common occurrences in cases of demon possession.

I think demons do not posseing people. It could be by lower spiritual entities called for example "larvae" often created by the human mind. See Stanislas de Guaita, Key of black magic or Franz Bardon, Initiantion into hermetics.

[freetoroam]

get back to me when you know how to take cameras or phones into the astral realm and back again. but as presenting proof on such multidimensional beings, i doubt this will ever happen. if you don't think they are just be unlucky enough to experience one. and when i say demons i'm referring to other dimensional beings that are not human, but leech and feed from\off energy i shouldn't call them demons because people think i'm religious i'm not i don't believe in any religion and still a strong follower of science till the day i die. however i do 100% believe in dimensional beings or as many call them, demons.

as for op, its hard to tell what "good" and not "good" if we bring in non-human entities they have a different mindset to us and thus a different take on the subject

as for it being all in the mind\head i'm not crazy at all. i don't do any form of drugs, and i'm healthy in the body and mind. i'll never change of view of them not being real anymore. our science can not prove or disprove another dimension because its laws are different. so if you do really want proof you're just going to have to be unlucky and gain hands on experience with them. then get ridiculed that you're crazy or its your mind.eyes,brain etcetera and i say ridiculed because its the way people reply , they "imply" that you're simply just a nut bag and have a long list of wiki'd mind faults lol.

sorry op i'll just reply to you now on i don't want to derail the thread in anyway.

Hi TOH,

Me being a sceptic, I do actually find reading the believers "theories" quite interesting.

I can understand the religious beliefs behind demons, but surely this is to do with the mind of the believer and not actual proof of existence.

Please do not get me wrong, as I am not religious, I obviously do not have that same mind set, but do respect those who are religious, although I believe, believing in more comforting things like guardian angels and Gods a much more logical way of dealing with the hardships of life than believing in demons which can freak certain people out.

I have always believed that religioun was originally invented by man as a way to deal with grief, hardship and a way of finding hope when mans "powers" are crushed by the forces of nature and the only way to reach for help is to .......pray there is a higher force somewhere out there to help or at least give some comfort.

Over time this belief has been changed, argued over, manipulated, opposed and has been used as a reason to kill....on a very large scale. THIS is where the demons are and how they were created IMO...MAN has created the demon, MAN is the demon.

Edited August 22, 2015 by freetoroam

[Magnanimus]

There are two general things that regularly get called "demons" and (despite their clear differences) they do have some degree of interchangeability in storytelling, but are very different for the purposes of your question.

The first is the easy one to answer and those are the Fallen Angels that used their one, shiny "Redeem for Free Will" token that every angel got to follow Satan as their new God. Goes without saying, but they're Evil-with-a-capital-E. Now, just because they're evil doesn't mean they're always bad. It's like that cynical adage that says that you can always trust liars to never tell the truth, while the honest men will color the truth to suit their needs.

A Fallen Angel can do good things and will do good things. You can ask one half a dozen questions and be guaranteed the truth each time… But then you ask that seventh question and that's where the lie will be and the biggest problem is you can never know which question was Old No. 7 by their count. They're the tiger in the grass, or the razor blade in the Halloween candy, hell, they're Sauron's One Ring; anything that appears innocuous or even, dare I say, benevolent is entirely part of a larger game that, at best, will lead to the ruin of the individual who trusts them, but more often than not is designed to use the individual's failings to inflict maximum casualties.

Now, the second category is sometimes distinguished by the more Greco-Latin spelling, "daemon," and are a universal constant in world mythology. Fae, Sith, Kami, Djinn, Spirits, Manitous--take your pick. There are absolutely differences and nuances from culture to culture, but there are also major similarities. They're usually described as the inhabitants of the planet before people that now live in a parallel spirit world alongside ours. Sometimes we were all in one place that split; sometimes they left and found their world on their own; sometimes our world condensed out of the ethereal vapor into physical reality and left them behind. Regardless, the point is that they don't belong to Heaven or Hell, but are on the same level as we are in this life.

That said, they can't really be classified as "Good" or "Evil", but fit that other axis of nerd morality, Lawful/Chaotic, much better. Think about the number of species that are on the planet now and then match that for the planet's history and you'll understand just how many types and sub-types of these daemonic beings there are out there. Just like you can't classify raccoons or squirrels as "good" or "evil", neither can you do the same with them. Every choice they make and action they take is defined by their natures and, on occasion, some of those actions following that nature line up as either "benevolent" or "malevolent" from our external perspective. Otherwise, our waffling, human notions of morality are completely alien to them and theirs to us.

[Crystal Rose]

There are two general things that regularly get called "demons" and (despite their clear differences) they do have some degree of interchangeability in storytelling, but are very different for the purposes of your question.

The first is the easy one to answer and those are the Fallen Angels that used their one, shiny "Redeem for Free Will" token that every angel got to follow Satan as their new God. Goes without saying, but they're Evil-with-a-capital-E. Now, just because they're evil doesn't mean they're always bad. It's like that cynical adage that says that you can always trust liars to never tell the truth, while the honest men will color the truth to suit their needs.

A Fallen Angel can do good things and will do good things. You can ask one half a dozen questions and be guaranteed the truth each time… But then you ask that seventh question and that's where the lie will be and the biggest problem is you can never know which question was Old No. 7 by their count. They're the tiger in the grass, or the razor blade in the Halloween candy, hell, they're Sauron's One Ring; anything that appears innocuous or even, dare I say, benevolent is entirely part of a larger game that, at best, will lead to the ruin of the individual who trusts them, but more often than not is designed to use the individual's failings to inflict maximum casualties.

Now, the second category is sometimes distinguished by the more Greco-Latin spelling, "daemon," and are a universal constant in world mythology. Fae, Sith, Kami, Djinn, Spirits, Manitous--take your pick. There are absolutely differences and nuances from culture to culture, but there are also major similarities. They're usually described as the inhabitants of the planet before people that now live in a parallel spirit world alongside ours. Sometimes we were all in one place that split; sometimes they left and found their world on their own; sometimes our world condensed out of the ethereal vapor into physical reality and left them behind. Regardless, the point is that they don't belong to Heaven or Hell, but are on the same level as we are in this life.

That said, they can't really be classified as "Good" or "Evil", but fit that other axis of nerd morality, Lawful/Chaotic, much better. Think about the number of species that are on the planet now and then match that for the planet's history and you'll understand just how many types and sub-types of these daemonic beings there are out there. Just like you can't classify raccoons or squirrels as "good" or "evil", neither can you do the same with them. Every choice they make and action they take is defined by their natures and, on occasion, some of those actions following that nature line up as either "benevolent" or "malevolent" from our external perspective. Otherwise, our waffling, human notions of morality are completely alien to them and theirs to us.

My only question is, what do you define as evil?

[Magnanimus]

My only question is, what do you define as evil?

Above my pay grade to decide. My job's just to answer questions, you gotta ask Upper Management if you want the logic behind the decisions.

[freetoroam]

I got into an argument with one "entity" who was rather adamant that Goetic demons, or at least one in particular, were not demons.

You did? how did this come about?