Doubt

[Siiyah]

Why is universe the way it is?

I mean why certain things are fixed in universe..like speed of light in vacuum or ratio of proton's mass to electron's?

[00000000000000000000000000]

Because the Flying Spaghetti Monster wishes it to be so.

[pbarosso]

i think it has something to do with energy. and if the speed of light changed speeds we not observe it the same way. maybe things do travel faster, but we dont see it as light. protons are all the same because if they had any less energy they would degrade and wouldnt be a proton, if they had any more it would be unstable and then degrade to a proton. light is a byproduct.

maybe intelligent design?

[fantazum]

Why is universe the way it is?

I mean why certain things are fixed in universe..like speed of light in vacuum or ratio of proton's mass to electron's?

they are not. we are told that everything is subject to unflexible 'laws' governing their shape speed color and growth.

But Einstein was bothered by this idea and spent the last half of his life trying to find absolute proof that everything in nature really was governed by unflexible law. he failed and what he found instead was chaos and disorder......and then he died and we got quantum mechanics.

The one thing that really bothered Einstein was the possibility that matter could be created from nothing. He suspected it but he never dared postulate it.

Can 'nothing' exist?....we look into the depths of space and between the stars we see 'nothing' but that 'nothing' has to be composed of something or it simply wouldnt be there.

[Siiyah]

Let's take the proton/electron ratio, because that is such an oddity. A proton and an electron have identical charges, but a proton is precisely 1837 times as massive, no more and no less. At present, both science and religion can only give answers that boil down to 'it is that way because it is that way.' (Saying 'it is that way because God made it that way for unknowable reasons' is no more informative.)

Now perhaps there is a reason it has to be that way. If so, it is possible that science will discover it, but they haven't. (Barring a 'new revelation,' it seems unlikely that man will discover God's reason for picking that number if you accept the religious view.) On the other hand, it may just be that way because it has to be some way. This seems unlikely as well.

Is it possible that a Universe could exist (or be created) with a different ratio? We just don't know, or have any idea how it would be different if it were.

Sorry, wish I had a better answer, but right now there just isn't one. (1837 is 11 x 167, but that doesn't seem to be relevant. And while this is a 'pure number' the speed of light isn't. It depends on the units of time and distance you are using.)

[Essan]

Why is universe the way it is?

Why not?

If it were any different, we too would be different, and would be unaware it was different.

[Yggdrasil]

Why not?

If it were any different, we too would be different, and would be unaware it was different.

Exactly.

There really isn't any other answer than "it just is," that is unless you involve God in the equation then it would be "because he wanted it that way."

[00000000000000000000000000]

Exactly.

There really isn't any other answer than "it just is," that is unless you involve God in the equation then it would be "because he wanted it that way."

Which would make God pretty damned arbitrary.

Post #250. Neat.

Edited December 9, 2005 by angrycrustacean

[kaiboijin]

I think everything is the way it is because that's just how God wanted it to be. I mean, I think He invented science as a way to keep everything running itself. Has everyone heard of the Ideal/Intelligent Design Theory? It's when scientist finally admit that the world was created perfectly, everything working together perfectly, and that such a perfect system coming about is impossible by chance. They dont admit that it is God. They DO admit that there is something of a higher being out there.

God can do everything, so He designed the world to work perfectly and in synchronicity (if thats a word...but you guys get what I mean). Everything works the way it does because that's the only way it COULD work and still make EVERYTHING ELSE work. I mean, I'm a pretty open-minded person, but just...if you think about how the Earth, nature, animals, how everything works, you'll realize that it could not have happened simply by chance. Even scientist admit so. I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't snap out at me. I'm just telling you what I know. Maybe it'll help.

Edited December 9, 2005 by kaiboijin

[fantazum]

I think everything is the way it is because that's just how God wanted it to be. I mean, I think He invented science as a way to keep everything running itself. Has everyone heard of the Ideal/Intelligent Design Theory? It's when scientist finally admit that the world was created perfectly, everything working together perfectly, and that such a perfect system coming about is impossible by chance. They dont admit that it is God. They DO admit that there is something of a higher being out there.

God can do everything, so He designed the world to work perfectly and in synchronicity (if thats a word...but you guys get what I mean). Everything works the way it does because that's the only way it COULD work and still make EVERYTHING ELSE work. I mean, I'm a pretty open-minded person, but just...if you think about how the Earth, nature, animals, how everything works, you'll realize that it could not have happened simply by chance. Even scientist admit so. I'd appreciate it if you guys didn't snap out at me. I'm just telling you what I know. Maybe it'll help.

imagine this: a flying saucer, golden and wreathed in a soft mist lands on the lawn of the white house and from this golden orb that emits a hum sweeter in sound than a thousand angelic harps, floats a figure swathed in white whose translucent shape fills the air with grace and love. It spreads its arms and in a voice that can be heard in the minds of all men in all parts of the world and in the deepest parts of the sea announces, :"verily I have come to thee to change thy wicked ways and put thee firmly back on to the road to goodliness and righteousness'....he then delivers a series of instructions engraved upon a golden scroll than can never deteriorate with time. It floats back aboard its golden ship and with the sound of a thousand horns and a great rush ascends to the stars.

I guarantee that within 15 minutes 99% of the population of this planet will be worshipping the figure as a diety and will be building temples to it. Secularists and the liberal intelligentsia will get nailed to a stake and torched the second they open their mouths in doubt and and instead they will rush to fill all available positions within the new priesthood.

Nothin changes....ever.

[~Alex]

Because they needed to cross the road?

[rickfury188]

There are many things out there that we do not understand. I guess it's human nature to create reasons for things so that we make ourselves feel in control. By studying space phenomenae and such, we try to understand why certain things happen. It makes us feel better about our place in the Universe.

[00000000000000000000000000]

There are many things out there that we do not understand. I guess it's human nature to create reasons for things so that we make ourselves feel in control. By studying space phenomenae and such, we try to understand why certain things happen. It makes us feel better about our place in the Universe.

I can't read any of your posts seriously because of your avatar. It cracks me up every time.

[rickfury188]

Are you making fun of me?

[00000000000000000000000000]

Are you making fun of me?

Hell no, I'm making fun of the poor manatee in your avatar.

[Ourmoonlitsun]

On the other hand, it may just be that way because it has to be some way. This seems unlikely as well.

Actually, not only is it likely but true: this IS how the universe turned out so questioning why we got one with these dimensions and not another is like asking, "I had to go left or right, and I went right... why?" The other quite plausible answer is that any other type of universal formation would not have resulted in us, and thus us questioning, "Why'd we get this universe?" Stephen Hawking has spoken about it before, and I can't remember the name for it, but he basically says, "We are here, this is the universe we got and in order for us to question our universe we would have had to have one that allowed for beings like us to develop." Again, one could compare it to flipping a coin 10 times and having it land heads 7 times; the reason is that one way or another the coin had to land.

Now, if one brings God into the equation, then you could use that as a reason for why things turned out as they did. Hope this didn't sound like I was attacking, and if it did, I apologize

[NoTC]

imagine this: a flying saucer, golden and wreathed in a soft mist lands on the lawn of the white house and from this golden orb that emits a hum sweeter in sound than a thousand angelic harps, floats a figure swathed in white whose translucent shape fills the air with grace and love. It spreads its arms and in a voice that can be heard in the minds of all men in all parts of the world and in the deepest parts of the sea announces, :"verily I have come to thee to change thy wicked ways and put thee firmly back on to the road to goodliness and righteousness'....he then delivers a series of instructions engraved upon a golden scroll than can never deteriorate with time. It floats back aboard its golden ship and with the sound of a thousand horns and a great rush ascends to the stars.

I guarantee that within 15 minutes 99% of the population of this planet will be worshipping the figure as a diety and will be building temples to it. Secularists and the liberal intelligentsia will get nailed to a stake and torched the second they open their mouths in doubt and and instead they will rush to fill all available positions within the new priesthood.

Nothin changes....ever.

With the abundance of technology, I doubt many people would worship it.

It is only human to wonder and question. From the beginning of our existence we've bene trying to figure things out. I find it amazing human knowledge of everything in existence has expanded as much as it has over the past century. I'm looking forward to seeing what we find out in the future.