185 replies to this topic

[Alienated Being]

[Bildr]

Alienated Being, on 09 October 2012 - 11:59 PM, said:

Consciousness after death simply is not possible.

Looks like you have the absolute answer, show me the empirical proof then?



(I know that the video doesn't completely relate, but it is to show that it isn't because we don't have proof of the possibility or improbability of something that it is impossible.)

Edited by Bildr, 11 October 2012 - 12:11 AM.

[Bildr]

failturner25, on 10 October 2012 - 11:52 AM, said:

Heaven and hell can not be proved or disproved. People who FULLY die will never come back to life and say that they saw/did not see heaven/hell. The scientist can not prove it, he needs physical evidence (seeing is not physical evidence). Besides, ask yourself this 'Would God show someone heaven if they were going to wake up again?'. Surely he wouldn't. Either the scientist's brain was still working and therefore he dreamt everything, or he is just another lier. I have no more to say in the matter.

Even if...we would want a ''physical', scientifical proof about all of this, how could we find physical/scientifical proofs when some of the brightest mind affirm that we only know what's driving 4% of the universe?  Only one thing is sure, is that we know so little about our universe.

[Alienated Being]

Bildr, on 11 October 2012 - 12:09 AM, said:

(I know that the video doesn't completely relate, but it is to show that it isn't because we don't have proof of the possibility or improbability of something that it is impossible.)

Well, let me just say that I invest belief into it just as much as I do faeries and unicorns.

[and then]

Alienated Being, on 11 October 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

AB you stated that consciousness after death was impossible.  Then post  images such as these.  You give the impression of someone who is very antagonistic toward faith in general.  Simply having a need for proof doesn't seem to account for the level of rhetoric on your part - imo.  Does religion make you angry for a reason you'd like to share?

[Alienated Being]

and then, on 11 October 2012 - 02:19 AM, said:

AB you stated that consciousness after death was impossible.  Then post  images such as these.  You give the impression of someone who is very antagonistic toward faith in general.  Simply having a need for proof doesn't seem to account for the level of rhetoric on your part - imo.  Does religion make you angry for a reason you'd like to share?

I just believe that it is a deadly virus, and should be eradicated completely.

[Jinxdom]

You would have to define what consciousness really is I mean if it's only chemical or electrical impulses... well couldn't that be replicated outside of the body?

Don't get me wrong I do believe the good doctor just tripped out but I'm not convinced that something couldn't happen after death until we know for sure how the brain works and can mimic it. Heaven and hell highly unlikely but something afterwards could very well be a possibility.

[HavocWing]

Alienated Being, on 11 October 2012 - 12:06 AM, said:

http://bible.cc/luke/12-49.htm

Edited by HavocWing, 11 October 2012 - 03:28 AM.

[Seeker79]

Alienated Being, on 11 October 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

I just believe that it is a deadly virus, and should be eradicated completely.

Wow? Eradicated? Really?

[Render]

Seeker79, on 10 October 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

No I'm not. Not sure why you thought I was saying that.

Well, then how is the brain damage/malfunction explained when experiencing the "spiritual world"?
Either brain damage causes a spiritual experience
or the spiritual experience is causing the brain damage

You insist that spiritual experiences "just happen". So then why is there brain damage measured??



Anyway:

Peace of Mind: Near-Death Experiences Now Found to Have Scientific Explanations

Quote

Seeing your life pass before you and the light at the end of the tunnel, can be explained by new research on abnormal functioning of dopamine and oxygen flow

Near-death experiences are often thought of as mystical phenomena, but research is now revealing scientific explanations for virtually all of their common features. The details of what happens in near-death experiences are now known widely—a sense of being dead, a feeling that one's "soul" has left the body, a voyage toward a bright light, and a departure to another reality where love and bliss are all-encompassing.

http://www.scientifi...mind-near-death

Edited by Render, 11 October 2012 - 06:55 AM.

[Rlyeh]

Bildr, on 11 October 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Even if...we would want a ''physical', scientifical proof about all of this, how could we find physical/scientifical proofs when some of the brightest mind affirm that we only know what's driving 4% of the universe?  Only one thing is sure, is that we know so little about our universe.

We don't know everything, therefore pixies live in my garden.

[Seeker79]

Render, on 11 October 2012 - 06:54 AM, said:

Uuuuuuuu. Mabey because some people are hurt? Are you suggesting the experience is damageing, but not the fact of being... You know.. Near death?

[the L]

http://www.thedailyb...-afterlife.html

As a neurosurgeon, I did not believe in the phenomenon of near-death experiences. I grew up in a scientific world, the son of a neurosurgeon. I followed my father’s path and became an academic neurosurgeon, teaching at Harvard Medical School and other universities. I understand what happens to the brain when people are near death, and I had always believed there were good scientific explanations for the heavenly out-of-body journeys described by those who narrowly escaped death.

There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind—my conscious, inner self—was alive and well. While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness journeyed to another, larger dimension of the universe: a dimension I’d never dreamed existed and which the old, pre-coma me would have been more than happy to explain was a simple impossibility.

[FurthurBB]

the L, on 11 October 2012 - 12:59 PM, said:

http://www.thedailyb...-afterlife.html

As a neurosurgeon, I did not believe in the phenomenon of near-death experiences. I grew up in a scientific world, the son of a neurosurgeon. I followed my father’s path and became an academic neurosurgeon, teaching at Harvard Medical School and other universities. I understand what happens to the brain when people are near death, and I had always believed there were good scientific explanations for the heavenly out-of-body journeys described by those who narrowly escaped death.

There is no scientific explanation for the fact that while my body lay in coma, my mind—my conscious, inner self—was alive and well. While the neurons of my cortex were stunned to complete inactivity by the bacteria that had attacked them, my brain-free consciousness journeyed to another, larger dimension of the universe: a dimension I’d never dreamed existed and which the old, pre-coma me would have been more than happy to explain was a simple impossibility.

I am glad you posted this quote because I think it gets to the heart of the matter.  He is not thinking like a scientist at all, he is forming his opinion through a logical fallacy.  Have you ever fallen asleep for just a few minutes and had a seemingly long and vivid dream?  It is very possible that all this happened either while his mind was going into the coma or coming out of it.  It does not take any more time than that and there lies the problem with the doctor's assumption.

[Render]

Seeker79, on 11 October 2012 - 12:44 PM, said:

Uuuuuuuu. Mabey because some people are hurt? Are you suggesting the experience is damageing, but not the fact of being... You know.. Near death?

You're having trouble understanding me.

I am concluding that you are suggesting a spiritual experience causes braindamage, because the damage is there and it happens to be the part of the brain which is responsible for the sense of the body in space. What a coincidence eh. So why is there a correlation between the brain damage and the "spiritual experience"? Either the damage causes the experience OR the experience causes the damage. You seem to be advocating the latter.

And even more of a coincidence: When scientists influence the temperal lobe (the same part that is reported as malfunctioning/damaged when experiencing an OBE or afterlife trip) with a magnet, ppl suddenly get the feeling they have the exact same experience. Why would that be?
Because the experience in itself is an illusion, that is why.