10148 replies to this topic

[psyche101]

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 06:40 PM, said:

Yes, Cheers mate Thats the bloke.. I don't totally agree with all the theories on AA but it's better than the idea that they built the pyramid as a tomb. Besides Chris dunn is probably way way smarter than anyone on any of these forums & I bet 99.9% of these fools who mock have'nt even been outside of their own back yards, let alone Egypt!

He is a, ohh, hang on this is a family forum.

How is it better than the idea of a tomb. Have you forgotten the mummies recovered? What does that make it? A Power Generator where Pharos died? Hrrmz, yes very convincing LOL. Dont know why we don't bury presidents and PMs in Hydro plants myself, always wondered that!

I seem to have missed when you and Zoser took a trip to Egypt? Can we come around for a slide show night? I'll bring beers, Imaginaryno1 can bring some jerky and chips huh?

I work in construction mate. I come from the outback. You could not be more wrong with your assumptions and I find them just an Ad Hom disguised as unqualified speculations.

I built an actual mountain once, yes a mountain. Started by digging a hole 30 meters deep funny enough. It's roughly pyramidal in shape. Can you claim closer experience?

[psyche101]

Quaentum, on 05 December 2012 - 06:58 PM, said:

Since the discovered ramp is in line with the quarry south of the great pyramid it is not difficult to envision that it was used in the construction of the pyramid.

There is no text that ties ramps to the construction of the Great Pyramid just as there is no text that ties Aliens into it's construction but at least we have the physical evidence of a ramp.

Well they did indeed find remains of a ramp that people are telling us never existed and is impractical and could not be used.

Perhaps it is not a ramp, perhaps it is an antenna to reach Zeta Reticuli, because that's where the cool aliens hang out I hear.

[LRW]

psyche101, on 05 December 2012 - 11:42 PM, said:

Yeah, that is why it remains mainstream, and Dunn remains fringe.

POP music is mainstream, it does not mean its the best music for everybody or their cup of tea. Egyptology may be mainstream and more catered for in the most well funded scientific and academic communities, but that does not necessarily mean they are correct in their thesis. Especially when they have not proven their theory outright, it just makes more people want to listen to something not of the mainstream.

Edited by LRW, 05 December 2012 - 11:56 PM.

[psyche101]

Quaentum, on 05 December 2012 - 09:25 PM, said:

Tell you what, I'll replicate the pyramids using the methods described.  All you have to do is supply me with the thousands of workers, support staff and monetary resources (seeing that they evidently were paid workers and not slaves) and 20 years time.

That is two offers, cannot say we are not trying to help!!

Be an awesome project wouldn't it! I'd love to run it.

[LRW]

psyche101, on 05 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

I built an actual mountain once, yes a mountain. Started by digging a hole 30 meters deep funny enough. It's roughly pyramidal in shape. Can you claim closer experience?

Thats coming from someone who attempts to compare the "Great Pyramid" with bigfoot suits. LOL

[synchronomy]

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Can someone tell me how to load a picture?
Please help

Read Boony's reply here:
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=228517

[psyche101]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

Egyptologists want to come across as truthful, then they should lobby for resources to support their theory. They do not seem interested in that though, because they know no one would foolish enough to waste their money on a project that would fail. Nippon attempt ring a bell? a warning sign that it would fail.  

Its not up to AA theorists to fund Egyptologists theories.

They are smart enough to understand building principals, scales, and methods. Because some people are not smart enough to understand these principals does not negate them at all.

Yes the Nippon attempt was poor. So what? They tried to recreate something they only had basic information from, and I have no doubt whatsoever that the original builders had the very same problems, which is why the ancients had a high body count, and the Nippon event had a flawless safety record. Not only that, the Nippon attempt had a time frame and the watchful eye of the Egyptian Government overseeing the project, and insisting the site could be returned to it's natural state. Another attempt would lessen those errors and yet another would eliminate near all of them. That is construction. Especially so for D & C.  What time frame did the ancients have? None, they even refurbished the structures.

There is 138 pyramids. That is quite some experience to apply to the Great Pyramid. Did the Nippon company get a "run up" and the opportunity to have a few "trial runs"? No.

And Egyptologists lie do they> Well IN YOUR OPINION< which you seem to have left out. To the majority they do come across as very truthful, in fact they honestly lay out findings, and show you their hypotheses and workings, How is that not honest? What do the fringe element offer other than bad science?

Here is an example of how "Truthful" The AA version of events actually is, with thanks to Boon for the link:

Quote

Ancient Aliens: “Pumapunku is so unique in the way it was constructed and shaped and positioned that it is the most intriguing ancient site on the planet.”
AA: “While the pyramids at Giza are an incredible feat of achieved, compared to Pumapunku, the pyramids are child’s play.”
AA: “In my opinion, the most significant piece of evidence that we have in this entire ancient alien astronaut puzzle is Pumapunku in the highland of Bolivia.”
Well, if Pumapunku is considered such good evidence for the Ancient Astronaut theory, we should probably start by looking at it. After all, it’s the one that they say was built directly by extra-terrestrials.
AA: “Pumapunku is the only site on planet Earth that, in my opinion, was built directly by extraterrestrials.”
Ancient Aliens starts off with a false dilemma by making people think that it was absolutely impossible for ancient people to construct Pumapunku, even to the point of making outright false claims.
AA: “One of the most intriguing thing there is it that the stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite. The only stone that is harder than diorite is diamond, so the only way this could have been achieved is if the tools were tipped with diamonds.”
This is funny because it’s totally wrong, the stones are not granite or diorite at Pumapunku, they are Red Sandstone and Andesite^[1][2][3], but this is also funny because of the way he says it.
AA: “The stones that were used there weren’t sandstone, they’re granite and diorite.”
Well yeah, actually it is sandstone. You can’t blame him though for it becomes obvious that throughout the series he often just repeats things he has heard in Eric Von Daniken’s books. Von Daniken’s books are what the Ancient Aliens series is based on. Later we see Eric Von Daniken himself make the exact same, totally wrong claim.
AA: “Of course [Pumapunku was] made out of stones found on Earth, because you don’t transport granite or diorite from another solar system.”
Von Daniken continues building up this false dilemma:
AA: “One of these platforms is 800 tons.”
That is very incorrect, the heaviest block at Pumapunku is 130 tons^[4], and most of the stones are much smaller than that. So he is off by a whopping 670 tons! Unfortunately we will come to expect this kind of thing from Von Daniken as we progress.
Ancient Aliens spends quite a lot of time pointing out the various features in the stone masonry at Pumapunku before declaring it impossible to do without power tools.
AA: “Each of these small drills holes are basically evenly spaced along this routed groove. To me it’s clear that power tools have been used on this unusual block of stone here.”
AA: “This surface is as smooth as a table top, like in your kitchen. There’s no wave to it. This was machined.”
The sandstone and andesite stones at Pumapunku would have been easily worked with the most basic stone working tools^[5][6], the idea that diamond tipped power saws were needed is ridiculous. The red sandstone was relatively soft and easy to work with, and even though andesite is pretty hard, because of the way it cooled it could be easily flaked off using stones as soft as 5.5 on the Mohs scale.^[7] Such pounding stones were found all over andesite quarries in the area.^[8]
Contrary to Ancient Aliens’ claims that archeologists are baffled by Pumapunku, Archeologists know the basics about how Pumapunku’s stones were cut and shaped.^[9][10] This is partly because there is evidence for this all over the site itself.
They actually used a method that almost all ancient stone workers used. They used hard -pounding stones to pound out troth like depressions; later on they used flat stones and sand to grind the stone to make a polished surface.^[11] We will see later on that this is also how the Egyptians, 1000’s of years before this, made their flat surfaced granite monuments like obelisks.^[12]
Sand, as we will see later when we look at Egypt, has extremely hard particles in it and, if placed between a flat surface and a rock, can polish even the hardest stones known to man. In fact, the harder the stone is the better it can be polished using sand.^[13]
We will also see that how sand can turn a piece of copper into a very efficient granite saw or granite drill – a method which the Egyptians utilized quite well.^[14]
Some stones at Pumapunku that Ancient Aliens would never show the cameras are the ones that were in the middle of this process. They show that at the same time a stone was being pounded by stone hammers, which created these troth like depressions, the grinding and polishing was taking place on the other end of the stone.^[15] Unfinished stones like this one clearly show how they were shaped – and it wasn’t with lasers.
There is also unmistakable evidence of stone hammers having been used in the places that were never meant to be visible, like where certain stones would be connected with one another.^[16] And because of that, it’s hard for me to believe Eric Von Daniken’s next claim, because it would mean that the alien tool box had a laser gun right next to a stone hammer.
AA: “Extraterrestrials arrive; the spaceship stands in orbit. Only a small spaceship can stand, like a space shuttle. So, to protect their instruments they (the aliens) make, overnight, with their technology, what we call a base camp. Of course [this was] made out of stones found on Earth, because you don’t transport granite or diorite from another solar system. Then they disappeared, but the wall of their base camp is still there.”
It is true that stone tools would not be enough to construct Pumapunku, especially for some of the finer points. For those they would need metal chisels, and the equivalent of a carpenter’s square.^[17]
Entire studies have detailed how these cuts were made, and nothing spectacular is required except some metal tools like chisels.^[18] The arguments against this are usually either that a particular culture did not yet know how to cast metals, or that copper chisels would have been too weak.
On the first point, we know that the Pre-Incan Andean culture was very skilled at fashioning metals and creating metal alloys.^[19]
In fact, the people who built Pumapunku were even pouring copper alloys into molds right on site,^[20]showing that they had more than enough capability to form all kinds of metal tools. The question is: what about the tool’s strength?
Even if they were pouring pure copper into the mold it would still work, but it would need sharpening often but, because archeologist actually found a few of these metal cramps used by them on site,^[21][22]we now know that they were using a very strong copper arsenic nickel alloy,^[23]  Which made a much stronger final product.
Arsenic acts as a de-oxidant preventing the metal from becoming too brittle^[24], and nickel was used in copper alloys specifically to make stronger chisels.^[25] Once you understand that they had the ability to make strong metal tools in a huge variety of shapes, there is no part of Pumapunku’s stone work that would have been too difficult for them.
Well what about these 90-degree right angles that Ancient Aliens’ makes such a fuss about?
AA: “One of the amazing things here at Pumapunku is the precision of the blocks. You can see with this block of granite that it’s really been cut at very accurate 90-degree angles.”
To make flat surfaces with right angles you don’t need alien technology, you only need a square or a simple equivalent. It’s important to keep in mind that Pumapunku would have been built 1000’s of years after the Egyptians, who had all kinds of squares and plumb bobs and levels and so on^[26], it’s a pretty basic stone working tool.
That being said, despite what Ancient Aliens says, Pumapunku is not all perfect right angles. You can even see this, ironically enough, as the Ancient Aliens crew goes around with carpenters squares. You can see some of them simply are not square.
Also they make claims like all the H blocks are the same dimensions, which they say suggest they were made by a big machine, but not only would that not be the only conclusion if it were true, it’s not even true.
The dimensions of the H blocks are not all the same, though they are close^[27]. It is probably the case that there were made using the same plans.
Speaking of plans…
AA: “Mainstream archaeologists say that Pumapunku was built by Amara Indians. [However] we would all have to agree that, in order to build something like Pumapunku, you need writing; you need planning, and you also need some sort of idea where which piece goes and how it ultimately all fits together. But there is one thing that mainstream archaeologists agree upon [and that is] that the Amara didn’t have any writing. How is it possible that the Amara built all this without any plans?”
The builders of Pumapunku may not have had an alphabet, but they did use the common iconography or artwork of their culture called Yaya Mama.^[28][29]  All the icons on the site are Yaya Mama, not secret alien code, and this is but one of the many indications of the culture and time that it was built.^[30]
But my point is that, like many cultures, they used pictures instead of an alphabet and, like most building plans, they used pictures like blueprints. So saying that no alphabet means no planning is, in my opinion, pretty ridiculous.
Well, what about moving the stones and lifting them into place? Surely that would have required levitation…
AA: “How these massive blocks of granite were moved from their quarries and brought here to Pumapunku would have required some kind of super technology. Levitation; anti-gravity, huge lifting vehicles…something that ancient aliens would have had.”
If they did know how to levitate these stones then they put far too much effort in creating places in the stones to attach ropes to.
Many stones have grooves several centimeters in width and depth on two adjacent faces for holding ropes.^[31] They even had special places cut into the stones that Pumapunku scholars call “hoisting grips.”^[32] These are all very strange things to do if they could simply levitate these blocks.
To make matters worse for the Ancient Astronaut theory, according to archeologist Jean-Pierre Protzen, an expert on Pumapunku, there is almost no stone at the Pumapunku site that does not have what he calls “drag marks” on one of its faces^[33], where it has been…well dragged to the site.
Ancient Aliens throws another false dilemma here:
AA: “What nobody talks about is the irrefutable fact that we are at an altitude of 12,800 feet which means we are above the natural tree line. No trees ever grew in that area, meaning that no trees were cut down in order to use wooden rollers. The wooden roller theory falls by the wayside.”
This is like saying that there is no way that the Egyptians used wood because trees didn’t grow in Egypt. The difference is that while the Egyptians had to import wood from places like Lebanon, it would have been far easier for those at Pumapunku to solve this problem for all they would have had to do is walk down the hill a little bit.
Ok well what about this claim:
AA: “Logic does not exist at Pumapunku because there we have megalithic structures which just lie around this entire site as if ripped apart by some great force.”
I propose that logic still exists at Pumapunku, and that the scattered state of the complex can be easily explained. To quote from archeologist Alexi Vranich: “the high quality of the stones made it attractive building material for houses, churches, plazas, bridges, even railways.”^[34]
In other words, the stones were pulled down and hauled off by locals for building material. In fact, we even have the 400 year old writings of a visitor to Pumapunku who said that the looting was in full swing even back then. He wrote that if the site was closer to town, he didn’t think there would have been any stones left at all.^[35]
Ancient Aliens says that Pumapunku is 17,000 years old!
This is what Vranich said of this claim:
“The idea that Tiwanaku is 14,000 years old is based on a rather faulty study done in 1926. Since then, there has been a huge quantity of work both on the archaeology and geology of the area, and all data indicates that Tiwanaku existed from around A.D. 300-500.”^[36]
For more information on the faulty study he is referring to here I will quote at length from Jason Colavito, who has been debunking ancient astronaut theories for years in his books and blogs. He said the following about this claim.
“Tiwanaku is not 17,000 years old. This date derives from the work of Arthur Posnansky, who tried to apply archaeoastronomy to the site but did so in ways that modern scholars do not recognize as legitimate. Posnansky proposed a date of 15,000 B.P. (before present, i.e. 13,000 BCE), which the geniuses on Ancient Aliens misread as 15,000 BCE, adding an extra 2,000 years to Posnansky’s already flawed dates.
Here’s what he did wrong. Posnansky assumed that the Kalasasaya temple at Tiwanaku was laid out with perfect accuracy to align to the equinoxes and solstices that he felt (but could not prove) were important to the Tiwanaku people.
Thus, on a certain day the sun was supposed to rise above one rock at the temple and set behind another – ah, but which rock should we choose? Since the current ruins do not align with these celestial events accurately, he concluded that the ruins must have been built at a time when they would have alignedwith that event.
Since the sun and sky change positions at a predictable rate due to gradual changes in the angle of the earth’s axis, he concluded that Kalasasaya was built in 13,000 BCE as a solar observatory, despite no other evidence of solar astronomy at the site.
The long and short of it is that Posnansky assumed celestial alignments and assumed flawless construction and then used his assumptions to “prove” that his assumptions were correct.
Colavito also has this picture of the site with the caption: “Pick a rock, any rock. One of them must align with something”
This site has been dated using a huge variety of methods. Things like carbon dating; the type of metals they used, the debris found in certain places, the type of iconography they used. Literally every kind of dating method applied comes to the same conclusion: It was constructed in the early middle ages.^[37]
Before we conclude this section on Pumapunku there are two other claims I wanted to address:
AA: “The Spanish asked the Inca, the people living there, including the king of the Inca ‘What is this Pumapunku?’ and they all said ‘It’s not us. It’s not our forefathers that made this. This was made by the gods in one, single night.’ Usually a king is proud of what his people did, about the precision. [However] in this case the chief of the people said ‘No. It was not us. It was the gods who made it’.
If you understand a little about the Incan imperial system and religion, you will understand why the Incans didn’t claim the site and why they claimed that it had a supernatural origin.
Part of the Incan state religion was that the Incan empire was the first civilization and was created by God himself. It was a very convenient idea for bolstering the Incan case for the right to rule everyone else.
When the Incans arrived at Pumapunku the site had already been abandoned for at least 100 years.^[38]Admitting that there was a pre-Incan culture at all, let alone one with more skill than them, would have been detrimental to the whole scheme.
So they slightly modified their already existing mythology to include Pumapunku. So, instead of Virachoca creating the Incan capital, he also created Pumapunku. Just like that the Incans were still the oldest and greatest civilization, even though everyone probably knew it wasn’t true.
Finally, Ancient Aliens says the following about what the ancient local people believed regarding who constructed Pumapunku:
AA: “Local legend suggests that Tianaka was built as a site of religious pilgrimage to celebrate the arrival of sky gods.”
This is a total lie. Viracocha came from the sea not the sky. This is a very sneaky move by Ancient Aliens in my opinion.
In conclusion, the stones are not made of Granite and Diorite. The stones were easily workable with the tools available to the Andean culture – tools which we know included high-quality metal-alloyed chisels.
These tools would have been more than sufficient to make the angles seen at Pumapunku. The faces of the rocks have been finished using a polishing technique after being rough cut using stone hammers – evidenced by the unfinished stones and hidden areas of the finished stones.

Thank goodness these guys have you in their corner???

[Somethings Not Right]

psyche101, on 05 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

He is a, ohh, hang on this is a family forum.

How is it better than the idea of a tomb. Have you forgotten the mummies recovered? What does that make it? A Power Generator where Pharos died? Hrrmz, yes very convincing LOL. Dont know why we don't bury presidents and PMs in Hydro plants myself, always wondered that!

I seem to have missed when you and Zoser took a trip to Egypt? Can we come around for a slide show night? I'll bring beers, Imaginaryno1 can bring some jerky and chips huh?

I work in construction mate. I come from the outback. You could not be more wrong with your assumptions and I find them just an Ad Hom disguised as unqualified speculations.

I built an actual mountain once, yes a mountain. Started by digging a hole 30 meters deep funny enough. It's roughly pyramidal in shape. Can you claim closer experience?

Well if that's the best comeback you've got, I'll have to put a couple of pics on for you my friend...
Sorry, what was I thinking! This is meant to be a forum about Ancient Aliens & not Alan's pictures of Egypt!
If you want pictures of Egypt you'll have to look on google images.. There's some really nice ones on there
And you're welcome to come to England for a beer but I make my own jerky & you'll have to bring a couple of chicks
with you.. I also make some tasty black pudding scotch eggs but that'd be for the cookery forum.....
He He

[Somethings Not Right]

synchronomy, on 06 December 2012 - 12:07 AM, said:

Read Boony's reply here:
http://www.unexplain...howtopic=228517

Cheers pal, Nice one!

[psyche101]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I have not suggested levitation or cutting tool using sound or light nowhere on this thread.

You have rejected qualified hypothesis with fringe claims.

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Also, the discovery of ramp remains, tools, chisel marks etc, means nothing unless you can replicate the great pyramid with such tools as far i am concerned.

So you are actually dismissing direct evidence?

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

Chisel marks could have been put there by anyone, way after the pyramids were already built. I don't see how that is evidence of your unproven theory.

Not what the stones indicate is it, and this is how you negate tools? Someone came along at some point and decided to hoax the whole thing? So they could hide some fringe claim? Yeah, that makes sense......... to someone I am sure.

[psyche101]

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

I'm not having it that just because they dedicate their lives on a subject they know everything & to close the book..

They have the resources and knowledge that is specialist to their field. In that they are "experts" despite the claim made:



LRW, on 06 December 2012 - 03:18 AM, said:

They are not experts. They are not sages.

Do you disagree with that?

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

They obviously know more than someone who thinks on their feet, but sometimes people get lucky with their ideas, it happens all the time!

Yes, sometimes people study very hard on a personal level and their hard work comes to fruition. Then all you have to do is qualify that claim. Not one has been put forth that is more likely than the accepted conclusions (which is how it becomes accepted, the "experts" put their heads together, and yes, from time to time they go "Why didn't we think of that!) Proof is required, not assurances. "Experts" offer how and why they came to the solutions they do. Fringe elements make up crap and expect people to believe it. Massive difference.

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

I do agree someone to be a 'pro' after dedicating their whole life to a subject but come on, don't just discount someone's views because they have not been to colledge or an authority on the issue.. That's a bit narrow minded. There are plenty of people out there over history who 'knew it all' only to be found to be wrong years after their deaths

Yes, I agree, and that is why we now have a system called "Peer Review". Claims can be tested and qualified. If they pass, they become accepted. There is nothing wrong with this model, it is fair and just. That is all that is required. Real evidence.

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:53 PM, said:

When i'm more familiar with how these forums work I will prove it to you all.......
WATCH THIS SPACE!

I Look forward to it, if not with one squinted eye.

[psyche101]

Somethings Not Right, on 05 December 2012 - 10:57 PM, said:

Can someone tell me how to load a picture?
Please help

When you post, see the icons at the top? The square one, 2 across form the little one that looks like a chain. Click that.

[psyche101]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Of course i will reject it.

Why?

There was no mummies found in the great pyramid .

No there was not. There was a bolken empty coffin found, and evidence of looting. It's an empty room and rather obvious why it is empty. What would a robber go for? The largest or smallest repository of treasure?

Do you know that Mummy flesh was ground up during the middle ages and used as a remedy? Mumia was the powdered flesh of Mummies and used as everything from a cure all to an aphrodisiac. Right up till 1920 in fact.

Egyptian mummy seller 1875

Do I need to draw you a picture?

[Somethings Not Right]

psyche101, on 05 December 2012 - 11:49 PM, said:

He is a, ohh, hang on this is a family forum.

How is it better than the idea of a tomb. Have you forgotten the mummies recovered? What does that make it? A Power Generator where Pharos died? Hrrmz, yes very convincing LOL. Dont know why we don't bury presidents and PMs in Hydro plants myself, always wondered that!

I seem to have missed when you and Zoser took a trip to Egypt? Can we come around for a slide show night? I'll bring beers, Imaginaryno1 can bring some jerky and chips huh?

I work in construction mate. I come from the outback. You could not be more wrong with your assumptions and I find them just an Ad Hom disguised as unqualified speculations.

I built an actual mountain once, yes a mountain. Started by digging a hole 30 meters deep funny enough. It's roughly pyramidal in shape. Can you claim closer experience?

Someone tell me where the mummies were recovered in the great pyramid... I always was lead to believe there were no mummies found in the GP...
When CHRIS DUNN was talking about 'The GREAT PYRAMID' being a 'HUGE RESONATOR' on 'ANCIENT ALIENS' he also said that the 'MAIN GALLERY' was fitted with a series of 'HUGE WHEELS'  with pulleys.....

You see I'm also a builder It's fact that every pulley halves the weight of the object being lifted.. So a series of dozen's of pulleys
would make it easy for a much smaller team of 'lifters' needed you see........
And anyway, don't just hang on to what you believe is a flaw in the man, he speaks complete sense & no one points
out what these genius's are teaching us to be really good evidence, just what they can mock...

Chris Dunn is a very very smart man indeed so don't be so quick to mock him as he's 'The Man Of The Moment &
until any of you sceptics come up with a better idea I suggest you follow him more closely...

PUT  THAT  IN YOUR  PIPE  &  SMOKE  IT!!!  

[psyche101]

LRW, on 05 December 2012 - 11:43 PM, said:

Indeed they certainly do. LOLOLOL.

I do not see what is funny. Egyptologists study the Pyramids themselves, they are not the ones making a half assed first attempt at a construction. I see three people up there. How many were used on the original again? Is that proportionate? How about the time frame?

You are talking about two completely different groups claiming they are one. And for that matter, how many Japanese formen have been confirmed as working at the Pyramids? What are their experiences? Do they compare?

Even with construction, Rubbish in = Rubbish out.