Jump to content




Welcome to Unexplained Mysteries! Please sign in or create an account to start posting and to access a host of extra features.


* * * - - 5 votes

[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
11638 replies to this topic

#7606    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:36 AM

View PostAbramelin, on 13 May 2011 - 01:16 PM, said:

You might want to check how the Los Millares (S/E Spain) settlement got destroyed in 2200 BC: by extensive fires...

But the explanation is that is was destroyed by fire during wars.

Btw, I have read somewhere about a submarine volcano, west of Portugal, Mt.Tores something, causing this flood/tsunami.

+++


EDIT:

During the period of 2600 B.C. to 2400 B.C. there were signs of stress beginning to appear in the Millaren culture. Their fortifications were reinforced and enlarged to their maximum extent indicating violent encounters or war with the neighboring peoples from the west and north of them. It was in this period that the first Maritime Bell Beaker pottery appeared among the Millarens. The pottery spread quickly throughout the region on the existing maritime trade networks. By 2400 B.C. the social stress facing the Millarens began to worsen into a crisis and the large settlements began to depopulate. The graves of the elites were increasingly accompanied with weapons indicating the violent nature of the time. By 2200 B.C. the town of Los Millares was abandoned after a sequence of catastrophes (probably large-scale warfare). There is evidence of widespread fires and damage to the fortifications. But amid the destruction, the first settlements of the El Argar arose to take their place. The period began with the use of bronze in the Aegean in 2600 B.C. and ended in 2200 B.C. with it being used by the Beaker people in Britain.

http://www.minoanatl...inoan_Spain.php


+++

EDIT:

And the submarine volcano is the "Torre Seamount".



#7607    Knul

Knul

    Psychic Spy

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,045 posts
  • Joined:08 May 2011

Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:38 AM

View PostAlewyn, on 16 November 2011 - 08:00 AM, said:

You want proof? Try this:

China
The extract of a paper written by Chun Chang Huang and others from the Department of Geography, Shaanxi Normal University, Xi’an, Shaanxi in the People’s Republic of China in 2010, Extraordinary floods related to the climatic event at 4200 a BP on the Qishuihe River, middle reaches of the Yellow River, China,:

A paleo-hydrological study was carried out in the Qishuihe River valley in the middle reaches of the Yellow River.
The results show that successive floods occurred between 4300 and 4000 a BP in association with the abrupt climatic event of 4200 a BP. These overbank floods had the riverbank settlement inundated repeatedly.
The climatic event of 4200 a BP and the climatic decline at 3100 a BP were believed to be characterized by droughts previously. This work provides solid evidence that both severe droughts and extreme floods were parts of the climatic variability during abrupt climatic event and climatic decline in the semi-arid to sub-humid zones over the world
.

We also have ample archaeological evidence of ancient Chinese cultures that were destroyed in c. 2200 BC.

The Caribbean
Dr. Sander R. Scheffers of the School for Environmental Management and Science at Southern Cross University, NSW, Australia, and others,  in an article, Tsunamis, hurricanes, the demise of coral reefs and shifts in pre-historic human populations in the Caribbean (Quaternary International, Volume 195, 15 February 2009, Pages 69-87):

Three extreme impacts with different magnitudes can be clearly distinguished. The youngest event occurred at approximately 500 BP, a second event at 3,100 BP, and the oldest at 4,200 BP (Scheffers, 2002; Scheffers et al. 2006).

Spain
Francisco Ruiz  from the Department of Geodynamics and Palaeontology, University of Huelva, Avda, Spain, and others, noted in the research article, Evidence of high-energy events in the geological record: Mid-holocene evolution of the southwestern Doñana National Park (SW Spain) (Palaeogeography, Palaeoclimatology, Palaeoecology, Volume 229, Issue 3, 20 December 2005, Pages 212-229):

This was followed by a renewed phase of instability ( 4200–4100 cal. years BP) indicated by the presence of fine storm-lain deposits and thicker, probably tsunami-induced shelly deposits.

Sri Lanka
Ranasinghage, P. N et al in Signatures of Paleo-coastal Hazards in Back-barrier Environments of Eastern and Southeastern Sri Lanka (The Smithsonian/NASA Astrophysics Data System: American Geophysical Union, Fall Meeting 2010, abstract #NH21A-1397):

The most recent pre-2004 tsunami event likely occurred around 1000 yrs BP with the older events around 4200 yrs BP and 4900 yrs BP.

The ~ 4200 and ~ 4900 yrs BP events were recorded in multiple cores from Kirind and Vakarai as well as in cores from Hambantota by Jackson (2008).


Syria, Palestine, Iraq & Egypt
Prof Harvey Weiss, professor of Near Eastern Archaeology at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut (The Sciences, May/June 1996 P. 33,34)

Whether at Tell Leilan or Tell Taya, Chagar Bazar or Tell al-Hawa, the results told the same story: between 2200 and 1900 BC people fled the Habur and Assyrian plains en masse

In Egypt, the Old Kingdom, during which the great pyramids were built, gave way to the turmoil of the First Intermediate Period; in Palestine, Early Bronze Age towns were abandoned; in Mesopotamia Akkad collapsed and nomadic people made strange movements across and down the Euphrates and Tigris valleys.

Only decades after the city’s massive walls were raised, its religious quarter renovated and its grain production reorganized, Tell Leilan was suddenly abandoned. In our excavations, the collapsed remains of Akkadian buildings are covered with erosion deposits that show no trace of human activity


In collaboration with soil scientist and archaeologist Marie-Agnés Courty of the National Centre for Scientific Research in Paris, it was noted that the remains of the city (Tell Leilan) was covered with a thin layer of volcanic ash followed by some 200mm of fine sand. She found very little evidence of earthworm activity, which pointed to a prolonged period of aridity.

The Netherlands
Otto S. Knottnerus from Zuidbroek in the Netherlands wrote an article, Sea Level Rise as a Threat to Cultural Heritage, in the Wadden Sea Newsletter 2000 (No. 2). Of note was the following statement in the article:

Near Delfzijl (Netherlands), Neolithic settlers built a megalithic-chambered tomb about 3350 BC. After 2200 BC, the site disappeared under several feet of clay and peat

North Africa
(Mentioned earlier)
The Potsdam-Institut fuer Klimafolgenforschung (Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research) in Germany, headed by Prof. Dr. Martin Claussen, analyzed climate feedbacks from the last several thousand years as reported in ScienceDaily

Before that time, the Sahara was covered by annual grasses and low shrubs, as evidenced by fossilized pollen.
The transition to today's arid climate was not gradual, but occurred in two specific episodes. The first, which was less severe, occurred between 6,700 and 5,500 years ago. The second, which was brutal, lasted from 4,000 to 3,600 years ago. Summer temperatures increased sharply, and precipitation decreased, according to carbon-14 dating. This event devastated ancient civilizations and their socio-economic systems.
The change from the mid-Holocene climate to that of today was initiated by changes in the Earth's orbit and the tilt of Earth's axis.


In pre-historic times, Lake Yoa in North Eastern Chad was part of the greater Lake Megachad and then, about 4000 years ago, its waters suddenly turned salty (Scientific American, May 9, 2008: From Bountiful to Barren: Rainfall Decrease Left the Sahara Out to Dry - How a once-wet landscape became one of the world's great deserts. By Adam Hadhazy ).

This happened around the same time when the salt content of the ground increased at Tell Leilan in Syria, more than 2500 kilometres away. Scientists speculate that the cessation of fresh water recharge to the lake from rain or rivers and subsequent evaporation would have dramatically increased the salt content over the ensuing millennia. Archaeologists, however, noted that the salinity suddenly increased 4000 years ago. This was not a gradual process. Many of the lakes in North Africa today are salt-water lakes.

Do you still believe that the authors of the OLB dreamed up the catastrophe of 2193/12194 BC?

The higher the mountain you sit on, the more land you see. Did you investigate the mythical vulcanism in Frisia (Red Cliff near Stavoren) ?


#7608    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 11:43 AM

This was my reply to a post by Puzz (about Delfzijl):

View PostAbramelin, on 05 April 2011 - 07:53 AM, said:

The date -2200 BC- sure is interesting, but you would have hit jackpot if the sites were - apart from clay and peat - had been covered with a layer of sand.

The 2194 BC thing of the OLB was a disaster that included catastrophic floods. Such floods carry a lot of sand with them, which cover coastal areas.

The process desscribed in the pdf is about slowly rising sealevels and a subsequent deposit of clay and later on, peat.

Btw: in the Doggerland thread I have posted about how initially they found out about a huge tsunami happening around 6150 BC (Storegga Slide): in Scotland a geologist found meters thick sand deposits containing (deep)sea-shells high up inland.

They also found proof of the same tsunami in Rotterdam, the Netherlands.

So, if they can find proof of a tsunami happening around 6150 BC, why not of the one around 2200 BC (in the same area)?

.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 November 2011 - 12:16 PM.


#7609    Otharus

Otharus

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,400 posts
  • Joined:20 Sep 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:01 PM

View PostKnul, on 16 November 2011 - 11:23 AM, said:

It has been widely accepted, that the OLB is a hoax. That is why scholars don't want to deal with the OLB. You refuse to read sources like Letterkundige Naoogst to convince yourself.
Did you know that it was once "widely accepted" that our economy would always keep growing and what happened to wise people who dared to challenge this belief?

You surely remember the once "widely accepted" ideas that the earth is flat and that the sun rotates around it.

I've seen enough of your 'evidence' to not feel like wasting my time on reading a book by the incredibly boring Halbertsma (who had no sense of humor or imagination).

Why don't you quote or summarize this evidence so the whole forum can read it?

If it's any good, I or Abe will translate it for you.

Edited by Otharus, 16 November 2011 - 12:06 PM.


#7610    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:03 PM

View PostAlewyn, on 16 November 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

Thanks Puzzler. No, I was not aware of this website.
I just glanced over it and it would appear that scientists have not dated it conclusively (yet). Some of the diagrams would seem to indicate that the most recent pre-impact layers, however, dates to about 4000 years BP (2000 BC). This could make it very relevant to our discussion.
Thanks.

Just adding some quotes from the website Puzz found ( http://www.chiemgau-impact.com/ ) :

Doppler et al. (2011: 274) contend that we would date the Chiemgau impact to “some 2500 years ago” in “the Iron Age”. In actual fact we have dated the event to a period of 4200-2800 years ago (2200-800 BC), this means the Bronze Age (Rappenglück et al. 2010: 436).

-

Arguing from a critical reading of the text, and scientific evidence on the ground, the authors show that the myth of Phaethon – the delinquent celestial charioteer – remembers the impact of a massive meteorite that hit the Chiemgau region in Bavaria between 2000 and 428 BC.

-

Physical and archeological dating confine the impact event to have happened most probably between 1300 and 300 B.C. The impactor is suggested to have been a low-density disintegrated, loosely bound asteroid or adisintegrated comet in order to account for the extensive strewn field.



#7611    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:47 PM

View PostKnul, on 16 November 2011 - 10:35 AM, said:

It just proofs, that the OLB has been written after 1935.

s. http://www.maps.com/map.aspx?pid=15966 (National Geographic World Map 1935). [Iran (formerly Persia)]

s. http://maps.national...d-map-1922.html (National Geographic World Map 1922). [Persia]

I assume you were kidding, Menno.... right?

I repeat: the OLB talks about a people - Yra - not about Iran or Persia.

It was known - certainly by historians - that the natives called themselves Ira or Arya, and anyone reading a history book about Persia would have known, even in the 19th century.


#7612    Otharus

Otharus

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,400 posts
  • Joined:20 Sep 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:50 PM

View PostOtharus, on 15 November 2011 - 05:44 PM, said:

Did Jensma comment on your book yet?
Alewyn, didn't you send Jensma a copy of your book?

Did he ever comment on it?


#7613    Otharus

Otharus

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,400 posts
  • Joined:20 Sep 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:52 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 16 November 2011 - 12:47 PM, said:

It was known - certainly by historians - that the natives called themselves Ira or Arya, and anyone reading a history book about Persia would have known, even in the 19th century.
I doubt this is true.

Can you give one example?


#7614    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:02 PM

View PostOtharus, on 16 November 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

I doubt this is true.

Can you give one example?

Have a guess: where did the word "Aryan" come from? The word was known in the 19th century and most probably it did not come falling from the skies.

You really think no one in the Netherlands ever read about the history of Persia or the Sassanid Empire?

If I wanted to write an 'ancient' manuscript I would use the names the natives in the lands I describe used for themselves.


#7615    Otharus

Otharus

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,400 posts
  • Joined:20 Sep 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:08 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 16 November 2011 - 01:02 PM, said:

Have a guess: where did the word "Aryan" come from? The word was known in the 19th century and most probably it did not come falling from the skies.
Was it known in any book available here?

I really doubt it and wouldn't guess that easily.


#7616    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:12 PM

View PostOtharus, on 16 November 2011 - 01:08 PM, said:

Was it known in any book available here?

I really doubt it and wouldn't guess that easily.

21: Pictet, Adolphe "Iren und Arier" Beiträge zur vergleichenden Sprachforschung auf dem Gebiete der arischen, celtischen und slawischen Sprachen 1858.

http://en.wikipedia....an#19th_century

You might also be interested in the 19th-century theories about there being 'three races': white, black, yellow (Frya, Lyda, Finda).

.

Edited by Abramelin, 16 November 2011 - 01:16 PM.


#7617    Otharus

Otharus

    Poltergeist

  • Closed
  • 2,400 posts
  • Joined:20 Sep 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:26 PM

View PostAbramelin, on 16 November 2011 - 01:12 PM, said:

21: Pictet, Adolphe "Iren und Arier" Beiträge zur vergleichenden Sprachforschung auf dem Gebiete der arischen, celtischen und slawischen Sprachen 1858.

http://en.wikipedia....an#19th_century
OK, nice find.

Quote

You might also be interested in the 19th-century theories about there being 'three races': white, black, yellow (Frya, Lyda, Finda).
It does not surprise me at all that much of what we read in an ancient manuscript was and is still living in our collective consciousness.


#7618    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:35 PM

View PostOtharus, on 16 November 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:

OK, nice find.


It does not surprise me at all that much of what we read in an ancient manuscript was and is still living in our collective consciousness.

Btw, you can read more about Pictet and others here:
http://www.archive.o...e/n143/mode/1up

==

In our collective consciousness?? Please read again that Wiki page I linked to in my former post.

It's as racist as racist can be.


#7619    Alewyn

Alewyn

    Remote Viewer

  • Member
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts
  • Joined:26 Jun 2010

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:40 PM

View PostOtharus, on 16 November 2011 - 12:50 PM, said:

Alewyn, didn't you send Jensma a copy of your book?

Did he ever comment on it?
Yes, more than a year ago.

At first I thought it would not be right to share his private e-mail dated 18 August 2010 to me. On reflection, however, I don’t think he would object. Here it is:

Dear Mister Raubenheimer,

Indeed, some three or four weeks ago, I received a copy of your book Survivors of the Great Tsunami. I apologize for not having written you before, but I want you to know that I really appreciated you donating me your book. Thank you very much for that.

In the meantime I have been reading your book also. I tried to do this as unprejudiced as possible, but, as you will know, I have been studying the Oera Linda Book for a couple of years myself and have written a study on it (2004) and also published a new edition (2006). In my view the OLB is a intelligently written, erudite, very subtle and multi-layered  hoax originating from the 19th century. The plot of the book is that it wants to puzzle the reader, but only temporarily, in order to convince him that you should not take books like these all too literally. The book really is a literary master-work in its kind, as well as a 19th century comment on debates on religious fundamentalism.

The question now was whether your book would challenge me and convince me to admit my wrong. I am sorry to say that it did challenge me indeed, but it did not succeed in changing my views. I think your book stands in a long tradition of readers (and writers) who are taking the text of the book literally, or better: which take it for a factual description of some prehistoric reality (Herman Wirth's, Die Ura Linda Chronik  from the 1930s has proven to be influential). In my view it obviously is not. You can set up a whole string of arguments to show that. For instance the letters used in the book are nothing but Roman capitals, the language used is a Frisian form of 19th century Dutch, full of 19th century words and references to nineteenth century persons and events; if you give the text a closer look you will see that the chronology has been inferred in the text at a later stage of the making process, the text originally being a non-historical allegory in which Frya and the Magi were the main characters.  And so on, and so on.

You could have read all this and more in my book (De Gemaskerde god) as well as from the large body of literature on the subject which, ever since the book came about in the 1860s, has shown that the text simply cannot be true in the sense that it would be a factual description of a prehistoric society.

It your attempt to to prove that the OLB is a 'Rosetta Stone of European History', you are using methods which are mostly scientifical (instead of scholarly) by nature and so you take your 'prove' of the authenticity of the book from geology, historical geography, astrophysics  and so on.  I really regret that you did not give the text itself a closer look: why is this text written as it is written (even if it were to be an age-old text)?

I realize that it must have been an enormous effort for you to research this subject, to write the book and to have it published, and I would have liked to admit that my findings on the book are wrong. But regrettably for you I can't.

I wish all the best and thanks once again,

Goffe Jensma



#7620    Abramelin

Abramelin

    -

  • Member
  • 18,085 posts
  • Joined:07 May 2005

Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:48 PM

Alewyn, to read more about Jensma's theory and analysis, I copied a jumbled textual mess (a copy of a PDF with hyperlinks that got included in the copy) I found online, cleaned it up a bit, and posted it in a blog:

http://oeralinda.blogspot.com/

Everything you read in italics were footnotes and references.

Btw, at the bottom of that page you will see a link to a summary in English of Jensma's "De Gemaskerde god".

Edited by Abramelin, 16 November 2011 - 02:08 PM.