80 replies to this topic

[Daughter of the Nine Moons]

Well said libstaK

[glorybebe]

ouija ouija, on 25 January 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

It seems that everywhere you look: TV, magazines, billboards, ads on transport, etc etc, there are photos of women exposing lots of flesh. What sort of an effect does this have on sexually frustrated males .... possibly socially awkward and/or unnattractive enough to know that they will never have a girlfriend never mind a wife and family? Everywhere they look there are women exposing vast amounts of flesh, signalling availability .... but not for them! And this is where the I-have-a-right-to-wear-what-I-want-when-I-want brigade need to sit up and take notice: it may well not be them who is attacked and raped, but they may well be the one who has sexually inflamed the man who then rapes someone more vulnerable who he feels he can easily overpower! This could be a child, a frail old person, a nun, or a scantily clad, attractive, young, drunk woman walking down a dark alley on her own at 2a.m..

It's this almost all-pervading, constant sexual stimulation for men that can tip some men into raping. It's obviously not a problem for attractive men who have little trouble finding girlfriends, but for the unnattractive men it's a constant tease with no satisfactory end result. And you can talk about self-control all you like, but that varies greatly from person to person as with all other human traits. Yes, ugly men should accept their sexless lot in life and turn their attention to higher things(sarcasm), but life isn't like that, is it? And that, I think was a large part of the problem in the previous thread: lack of life experience in some of the posters, plus, young posters interpreting older posters' views as 'old fashioned' rather than 'born out of life experience'.

How do you equate looks with being a rapist?  When I was younger, I had a good looking guy tell me that he would have me one way or another.  I laughed, thinking he was joking since he was, I thought, a friend.  He freaked out and said that even if he had to rape me he was going to have me.  I moved out of that town shortly after that.  What made him think that he should 'have' me? Saying a less attractive man is being teased is giving him an excuse to rape.  That is wrong.  There is no excuse for rape.

[Yamato]

A rapist is one who rapes.  Everyone who looks at rape objectively lays the blame on the rapist.  What we shouldn't do is lay the prevention on the rapist.  That would be like having the fox mind the chicken coop.

Rape is largely just a matter of being at the wrong place at the wrong time.   I never opened up about my own experience (and to be frank, I didn't even plan to participate in this thread again) but I will open up here.   I had a girlfriend who was waiting at the bus station downtown for a bus ride home outside the city where she lived.   She was hauled away from the sidewalk outside the front door of the station while smoking a cigarette at knife-point, and was raped by two black men, once by the man who kidnapped her and another man the kidnapper pimped her off to.  She escaped on foot when she had a freestanding moment outside and didn't look back.   If blame had anything to do with it, I blamed myself for letting her go to that bus station, hell, I still blame myself for letting her go to that damned bus station.   She didn't have to be there.  She could have stayed at my place or with my family till the end of that day and I could have driven her home after work.   Someone else could have cared more to give her a ride.   These thoughts have overwhelmed me at times for years after my tragedy.   The way we have to process and rationalize horrifying events in our lives may well be the worst thing of all about it.   It isn't a rational thinking process.  It still isn't.  It's too subjective to be objective.  

Another point that might not be obvious to someone who hasn't experienced rape, is the emotional trial and mentally taxing process of dealing with the hospitals and police afterwards; these are the things that made my girlfriend feel like she was being blamed!   Being questioned for her validity, feeling guilty for her fragmented and unsure memories, having to relive the horror over and over again in statements and return trips to the crime scene, looking through photo lineups of other known- rapists, being bodily molested all over again by rape kits!   People have no clue how devastating this can be unless they've gone through it themselves.  I've been through that hell, and I've recovered from it wiser than I was before.  And I'll be damned if I'm going to let a daughter, sister, niece, girlfriend or wife of mine be in a position to be raped again by anyone over the kind of controllable circumstance I'm describing above.  

Fate is just the weight of circumstances, and it behooves us all to be in as much control of our own destinies as we possibly can.

I think it's infinitely more important to prevent the totality of the cost paid by our society caused by our collective lackadaisical attitude about sexual promiscuity, and that is no gender-based statement, that applies equally to both genders.    If a logical extension to "I can wear whatever I want, end of story." becomes "I can behave however I want, end of story." then we shouldn't be surprised by the terrible results we get.   If forced sex has nothing to do with sex, then just look at all the sex that isn't forced.   Results like the teenage pregnancy epidemic, the volume of unwanted pregnancies and abortions, the aggregate of STD transmission, divorce rates, broken families, infidelity, jealousy, murder, and crimes of the heart of all kinds.   That is infinitely more important to me than whether clothing can prevent rape.  Clothing is just a reflection of attitude.  It's the attitude, and by extension the behavior, that causes the problems.

[glorybebe]

Quote

Addressing the tenacious idea that women “invite” rape by what they wear, the gutsy guys donned ladies’ skirts and joined about 200 other activists at an event called “Skirt the Issue,” offering a lovely reminder that many Indian men recognize the severity of the crime and are on the victims’ side.   

Sorry, forgot the link: http://omgghana.com/...o-protest-rape/

Edited by glorybebe, 27 January 2013 - 06:05 AM.

[Frank Merton]

The rape problem, like so many social problems, cannot be solved, and so this theme rightly addresses itself to ways to mitigate rapes rather than eliminate them.  Elimination should nevertheless be the ultimate objective.

Education: We should have sex education in schools and the real reasons rapes occur should be in the curriculum, as well as social situations to avoid and so on.

Training: We should all know how to defend ourselves.

Mindfulness: We need to learn to pay attention to what is going on around us.

Sense: We need to know how to secure our homes without fortifying them.

Sobriety: Stay sober.

Responsibility:  Men need to understand and respect a woman's right to say no and that no means no.

Police: Plenty of patrols, police sensitivity training, etc.

Courts: Evidence rules need to be such that juries are able to come to an understanding of what happened and its effects.

Deterrence: The legal consequences should be severe.

Put them out of circulation (different from deterrence but achieved the same ways).

Research: The US Center for Disease Control and similar institutions needs to study the phenomenon, etc.

Publicity: The media needs to respect privacy but at the same time participate in ongoing public education about the subject.

I am sure there are other things others would like to add to this list.

Edited by Frank Merton, 27 January 2013 - 06:08 AM.

[freetoroam]

glorybebe, on 27 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

Saying a less attractive man is being teased is giving him an excuse to rape.  That is wrong.  There is no excuse for rape.

very true, and Ted Bundy was not an unattractive man.

[glorybebe]

freetoroam, on 27 January 2013 - 05:30 PM, said:

very true, and Ted Bundy was not an unattractive man.

Exactly! That is why they think that he had such an easy time getting his victims.

[Yamato]

Our appearance says a lot about who we are to those around us.

Let's take body language.   Our body language says volumes about who we are.  Do we have nervous body language, are we closed up and defensive, or are we open handed and trusting?  Do we look powerful and confident, or do we look vulnerable and weak?   Do we sit with our legs spread and feet stretched out across the floor, our arms out and our fingers open, not afraid to take up more space than we really need, or are we bunched up tight with our feet crossed under our legs, our fists clenched and our arms pressed up against our bodies?   Do we stand with our feet apart and our hands on our hips, or our arms at our sides and our feet together looking as if we're barely balanced?  This kind of body language means just as much or even more than the words that come out of our mouths when determining what kind of opportunities we have in life.   If we find greater success in life, we'll generally be in safer surroundings and that's something that will make us less likely to get raped too.   People should be trained how to look confident, and even looking confident will contribute to feeling confident and ultimately being confident in time.   People who look like a victim are the ones who get bullied.   What predator chooses the strong prey when the weaker prey is available?

Let's take clothing.  I saw a recent poll in the paper and was surprised to see that the vast majority of women are more attracted to a sharp dressed man than a man who makes a lot of money.   If a man goes to the bar wearing a greasy shirt and cut-offs it doesn't matter if they have a billion dollars, women just aren't going to flock to that guy.   They're going to attract to the guy who knows how to groom himself.   Hopefully when we look at innocuous examples like this, we'll all be able to agree that appearance has a lot to do with life.   Preventing rape?  Probably not.   But a girl wearing a slutty outfit sends the message to guys around her that she's open for sex.   Of course they're not allowed under any circumstances to lay a finger on her, and that is so not the point!   The point is, that if we don't even know or can't even accept that our appearance determines how others are going to perceive us, and we dress like we're available for something we're not, we're inviting the unwanted attention on ourselves.   That's probably hard to hear and even hard to accept for all kinds of idealistic and politically correct reasons, but it's true.   Exuding confidence, understanding self responsibility, and applying common sense go a long way to keeping us safe from becoming the victim of any crime.

[ouija ouija]

glorybebe, on 27 January 2013 - 12:42 AM, said:

How do you equate looks with being a rapist?  When I was younger, I had a good looking guy tell me that he would have me one way or another.  I laughed, thinking he was joking since he was, I thought, a friend.  He freaked out and said that even if he had to rape me he was going to have me.  I moved out of that town shortly after that.  What made him think that he should 'have' me? Saying a less attractive man is being teased is giving him an excuse to rape.  That is wrong.  There is no excuse for rape.

I don't equate looks with being a rapist, I simply put that forward as a possibility of how things might pan out sometimes.
I wonder if your goodlooking friend felt teased by you? I wonder if he thought you realised he viewed you as something more than a friend?
There is never an excuse for rape.

[ouija ouija]

Saw this today and thought it related to this topic. It's just half a dozen young women from around the world talking about safety and clothes on a night out.


http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-21186182

[cultanorak]

Everywhere you look on tv and in the media crass female sexuality is saturated everywhere and one of the things that never gets pointed out is that the majority of females can get sex whenever they want even though few would probably admit this but only the best looking and most confident alpha males can get sex whenever they want. It's not about self control its about as being mammalian beings males require sex. So to reduce the problem of rape I'd say we need to live in a society where everything isn't sexualised and women have got to take responsibilty for themselves and stop being so blatantly sexual all the time. Women say that don't want to be objectified but it seems to me that the majority of women do objectify themselves and this is going to attract the wrong sort of attention at times whether they like it or not so why don't they just dress sensibily in public? A lot of women seem to use their blatant sexuality to attract attention from men who realistically would never stand a chance with them so you reap what you sew.

Also another way to reduce rape should be the complete legalization of prostitution and this would make it a lot safer for the workers and the clients and also provide sexually frustrated men with the release they need in the disgustingly sexualised society we live in.

[Orcseeker]

Frank Merton, on 27 January 2013 - 06:06 AM, said:

Sobriety: Stay sober.

Maybe this for those who might be more susceptible to aggressive behaviour. Never, in whatever state of intoxication have I ever had a thought like that or one involving unwarranted sexual tendencies. Taking responsibility is a big thing in this situation.

[Babe Ruth]

The people of Nevada have managed to reduce rape in certain areas of the state, by many years of legal prostitution as a county option.

No rapes at all in the local area, and one need not be a rocket scientist to understand why.

I can only wonder if similar policy would have similar results in other parts of the country?

[~C.S.M~]

Rape may have multiple reasons, perhaps a sex starving dude or a power hungry person or a control freak woman or else.
Clothes has nothing to do with rape, and men dont just jump on a female who flashes her body. To talk about rape and how to prevent it we need first to remove all the social myth surrounding this matter. Then we can start to take the necessary steps in the first direction.
As I said clothes doesn't matter, you can go in bikini or with miniskirts or with burka. You may get raped anyways. The idea that clothes is a welcome sign for rape is a big fat lie, forwarded mostly by old style people (you know, traditionalist and such) who believe that males lose control every time they see a glimpse of a female body. Men dont lose control even if you go naked around (but you may get some sex offers) males are not sex crazed beast. Who told you otherwise was either ignorant, lying or joking.
Another lye is only men can stop rape: false. Rape is a universal phenomena, where both men and women partecipate. Men get also raped either by other men, or by women. Women get raped either by men or other women also and so can children. The pop culture have only forwarded one time rape but neglected the others this are fortunately slowly changing  and we are getting a more clear picture on this crime. Society can stop rape with more information and therapy.

Possible reasons? power and control. Rape may be a power game by one individual toward another, or a group of people toward another group of people. The rapist itself is likely to be mentally unstable. And perhaps the rapist was also raped somewhere in the past. And I suspect people who use rape drugs, may have some slight necrophilia tendencies.

[~C.S.M~]

Babe Ruth, on 17 February 2013 - 07:14 PM, said:

The people of Nevada have managed to reduce rape in certain areas of the state, by many years of legal prostitution as a county option.

No rapes at all in the local area, and one need not be a rocket scientist to understand why.

I can only wonder if similar policy would have similar results in other parts of the country?

Or simply they speak less of rape? prostitution may help some poor lonely guy to get some mercenary intimacy. But what about lesbians? or gays? or women? (yes women rape to, yes lesbians rape to, yes gays rape to)what about that kind of rape? and what about the guys who rape because of the thrill of power? Prostitution is not a solution.

Edited by ~C.S.M~, 17 February 2013 - 07:25 PM.