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[Archived]Oera Linda Book and the Great Flood


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#8941    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:32 PM

 The Puzzler, on 22 December 2011 - 03:23 PM, said:

I'm pretty much over the alligator and I doubt I can pull up some "old Indian/Pakistani source" - but I did show that these Gharials, which once ranged in the area referred to in the OLB are called alligators in an Indian newspaper source, yes recent, whatever. I pulled out a second etymology for alligator from Latin, which no one mentioned and showed it possible the word wasn't a Fryan word according to it's use in the OLB.

Many people call an alligator 'crocodile', but then any American will say, "No, it's an 'alligator', but we do also have crocs here."

=

What does the OLB say about why that animal is called the way it is:

tha aldergrātesta ādiska sind algaettar hźten, thrvchdam se yvin grūsich bitte an thet rotte kwik, that mith-a strāma fon boppa nźi tha delta dryweth

De allergrootste eidechsen zijn de 'algaettar' geheten, doordat zij even gretig bijten aan het rotte 'kwik' (???) dat met-de stroom van boven naa de delta drijft

Sandbach:
the largest are called alligators, because they eat as greedily the putrid cattle that float down the stream

So, following the OLB, "algaettar" has something to do with 'greedily eating... rotten meat'. What do they mean, 'alga-eattar'?? 'Eattar' = eaters?

It is generally known 'gharials' only eat living fish, btw.


#8942    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:40 PM

 Abramelin, on 22 December 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

Halley's number was 575, not 575.5; that was Whiston's.

Halley was no real atheist or why would he have spun a whole theory around what caused Noah's Flood?

The then accepted date of the Flood was - like I said - around 2340-2345, by means of Biblcal chronology.

"2346BC, which is not 2193BC"

I know, jesus. Do you conveniently skip past what you don't like? I explained there is a gap of 150 years between the dates, I talked about the number -7- being important, and I said I'd like to read the books written by the Frisians Alta and Dongjuma.

.
Halley didn't come up with the Deluge Theory, Whiston did.

In 1691 Halley sought the post of Savilian Professor of Astronomy at Oxford, but, due to his well-known atheism, was opposed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, John Tillotson and Bishop Stillingfleet. The post went instead to David Gregory, who had the support of Isaac Newton.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Edmond_Halley

Yeah OK, I have my own long winded theories too, I don't see any connection except that he thought a comet might have caused mass destruction, and I don't have that much time to wade through 3 pages of confusing astronomical idea you have, cut to the chase.


What did you think of those Ladies in Goa, very Cretan looking I thought.  :lol:

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#8943    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:47 PM

1682 - (51*76)= -2194 >> 2195 BC

1682 - (51*75.99)= -2193.49 >> 2194.49 BC = 2194 BC

Using 1680 (wrong comet):
1680 - (51*75.94)= -2192,94 >> 2193.94 BC = 2194 BC.

We just don't know what avarage Halley (or someone else) used for the period of the comet.

nd from the book I downloaded (see post yesterday) the even claimed to know in what month it happened. There you have the decimals.

But I repeat: I want to read the books written by Alta and Dongjuma.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 December 2011 - 03:51 PM.


#8944    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:49 PM

 The Puzzler, on 22 December 2011 - 03:40 PM, said:

Halley didn't come up with the Deluge Theory, Whiston did.

In 1691 Halley sought the post of Savilian Professor of Astronomy at Oxford, but, due to his well-known atheism, was opposed by the Archbishop of Canterbury, John Tillotson and Bishop Stillingfleet. The post went instead to David Gregory, who had the support of Isaac Newton.
http://en.wikipedia....i/Edmond_Halley

Yeah OK, I have my own long winded theories too, I don't see any connection except that he thought a comet might have caused mass destruction, and I don't have that much time to wade through 3 pages of confusing astronomical idea you have, cut to the chase.


What did you think of those Ladies in Goa, very Cretan looking I thought.  :lol:

No, Whiston adopted Halley's theory, but made it even 'worse': he claimed that not only was the earth hit by a comet. but also that h earth was once a comet itself.

===

Lol, very Cretan looking. I love the dresses they wore too, heh.


#8945    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 03:52 PM

 Abramelin, on 22 December 2011 - 03:32 PM, said:

Many people call an alligator 'crocodile', but then any American will say, "No, it's an 'alligator', but we do also have crocs here."

=

What does the OLB say about why that animal is called the way it is:

tha aldergrātesta ādiska sind algaettar hźten, thrvchdam se yvin grūsich bitte an thet rotte kwik, that mith-a strāma fon boppa nźi tha delta dryweth

De allergrootste eidechsen zijn de 'algaettar' geheten, doordat zij even gretig bijten aan het rotte 'kwik' (???) dat met-de stroom van boven naa de delta drijft

Sandbach:
the largest are called alligators, because they eat as greedily the putrid cattle that float down the stream

So, following the OLB, "algaettar" has something to do with 'greedily eating... rotten meat'. What do they mean, 'alga-eattar'?? 'Eattar' = eaters?

It is generally known 'gharials' only eat living fish, btw.
I haven't checked the original text but the e in algaettar seems to be an insertion into the transliteration.
Really an algattar. It could be all-getter - snaps and gets everything - gets all?


Yes, maybe they were really hungry, there may have been overpopulation, little fish etc, I can't know the exact reasons of their dietary behaviour back then.

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#8946    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:03 PM

 Abramelin, on 22 December 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:


Halley was no real atheist or why would he have spun a whole theory around what caused Noah's Flood?


.
You asked that.
I answered with this.
In 1691 Halley sought the post of Savilian Professor of Astronomy at Oxford, but, due to his well-known atheism,

Then you tell me he did have the theory of the Deluge. I don't think he did, he had an idea a comet might have crashed into the Earth but I don't think HE spun a whole theory, it was Whiston who had the theory of Noah's Flood from what I can see  - evn the Popular Mechanics article you gave says that - WHiston wrote the book, he used Halleys 575 year idea though.

Either way, again, what's the point???  EDIT: OK I saw your post #8943. I'll look over some more tomorrow.

Edited by The Puzzler, 22 December 2011 - 04:05 PM.

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#8947    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:16 PM

 The Puzzler, on 22 December 2011 - 04:03 PM, said:

You asked that.
I answered with this.
In 1691 Halley sought the post of Savilian Professor of Astronomy at Oxford, but, due to his well-known atheism,

Then you tell me he did have the theory of the Deluge. I don't think he did, he had an idea a comet might have crashed into the Earth but I don't think HE spun a whole theory, it was Whiston who had the theory of Noah's Flood from what I can see  - evn the Popular Mechanics article you gave says that - WHiston wrote the book, he used Halleys 575 year idea though.

Either way, again, what's the point???  EDIT: OK I saw your post #8943. I'll look over some more tomorrow.

...ZUCHT...

I even posted a screenshot of where Halley said what about his theory. I also downloaded the book.

Halley was not an atheist, but he was accused of being one because he sought to find a 'mundane' explanation for Noah's Flood (= not the will of God and all that, to punish Mankind).

And Whiston only added a lot more to Halley's theory.

But the whole point is that already in the 17th century people tried to explain that it might very well have been an impacting comet that caused the Flood, the earth's axis to tilt, and whatnot.


#8948    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:20 PM

 The Puzzler, on 22 December 2011 - 03:52 PM, said:

I haven't checked the original text but the e in algaettar seems to be an insertion into the transliteration.
Really an algattar. It could be all-getter - snaps and gets everything - gets all?


Yes, maybe they were really hungry, there may have been overpopulation, little fish etc, I can't know the exact reasons of their dietary behaviour back then.

"algaettar" = all-getter.

You know, if that was right, we would have another Anglicism in the OLB.

And "algaettar" even sounds English, lol.

Oh, and the gharial's beak is too weak to catch large prey, whether is dead or alive, whether they were really hungry or not.


#8949    The Puzzler

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 04:37 PM

 Abramelin, on 22 December 2011 - 04:16 PM, said:

...ZUCHT...

I even posted a screenshot of where Halley said what about his theory. I also downloaded the book.

Halley was not an atheist, but he was accused of being one because he sought to find a 'mundane' explanation for Noah's Flood (= not the will of God and all that, to punish Mankind).

And Whiston only added a lot more to Halley's theory.

But the whole point is that already in the 17th century people tried to explain that it might very well have been an impacting comet that caused the Flood, the earth's axis to tilt, and whatnot.
OK. But the OLB never ever said anything about a comet, only Alewyn did. I get the description in the OLB seems to indicate a comet hit, and ALewyn takes it that way as well, you think they'd mention something like that in the OLB though. All very interesting though, I'll try and find time to go over the pages I've missed. My parents are here for Christmas.

Goodnight from me for now.

In an mmm bop it's gone...

#8950    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 05:24 PM

 The Puzzler, on 22 December 2011 - 04:37 PM, said:

OK. But the OLB never ever said anything about a comet, only Alewyn did. I get the description in the OLB seems to indicate a comet hit, and ALewyn takes it that way as well, you think they'd mention something like that in the OLB though. All very interesting though, I'll try and find time to go over the pages I've missed. My parents are here for Christmas.

Goodnight from me for now.

No, the OLB doesn't. However, it does hint at celestial phenomena, it mentions 'watchstars', it mentions people watching the stars/heavens from the top of the towers in the center of their citadels, and... it describes disasters (in 2194 BC) that are very similar to the centuries old ideas about what would happen if planets line up or when a comet appears in the skies. Halley and Eelco Alta are just a couple of examples.

If you only read Halley's theory (floods/THE Flood, earthquakes, earth's axis tilting, and so on) then you might get an idea of where the creators of the OLB got their inspiration from.


---

About  Eelco Alta:

Posted Image

Op 8 mei 1774 vond toen een samenstand plaats van de planeten: Mercurius, Venus, Mars en Jupiter met de Maan in het sterrenbeeld Ram.

Enkele maanden voor deze gebeurtenis verscheen er een boekje, geschreven door "Een Liefhebber der
Waarheid". Ook kranten gaven berichten over deze samenstand. Pas veel later kwam men er achter dat
het verhaal afkomstig was van Dominee Eelco Alta uit het plaatsje Bozum in Friesland. Hij had het
bericht over deze komende samenstand gelezen van de toen beroemde Duitse astronoom J.E. Bode die
er alleen maar op wijst dat men in de morgen voor zonsopgang van 8 mei deze fraaie samenstand aan de
hemel kan bewonderen. Voor Eelco Alta, die hele andere theorieën over het zonnestelsel had, was dit de
aanleiding om de mensen te waarschuwen voor wat volgens hem de gevolgen hiervan zouden zijn voor
onze aarde. Hij beweerde dat op die bewuste dag de planeten op elkaar zouden botsen waardoor er
vreselijke aardbevingen, vulkaanuitbarstingen en vloedgolven zouden plaats vinden. Uiteindelijk zou de
aarde uit haar baan en in "de poel des Vuurs" (dat was dus de Zon) ten onder gaan. Dat veroorzaakte
toen enorme paniek onder de bevolking
.

// "(...) He claimed that on that day the planets would collide together creating
terrible earthquakes, volcanic eruptions and tsunamis would occur. Eventually the
Earth would leave from its orbit and perish in "the lake of fire" (which was the Sun).(...)" //


http://www.maanenpla...10Mercurius.pdf



Nice pdf (and in English) about Eisinga and Alta (and read what 'we' discussed, lol)

Why Henk and Eise Eisinga?
• Last days of December 1983 we drove to
Friesland
– discussed Thet Oera Linda Bok (1867)
– visited the mummies of Wieuwert (1765)
– listened in Franeker to one of the last tours of Harke
Planeet (Terpstra), conservator of the Planetarium
(1941-1983): ‘denkt u om uw hoofd’, and bought a
signed copy of his beautiful book “Friesche
Sterreconst”
• Up to today Henk is fascinated by these
mysteries

A reverend Eelco Alta published a booklet in which he
predicted that the planets and the moon would collide,
with the result that the earth would be pushed out of its
orbit and burned by the sun.
• Due to this prediction there was a lot of
panic in Friesland
• Having read this book, Eisinga found
that it was time to teach the ignorant
people something about dynamics, by
making a working model of the Solar system
• Eisinga is typical of the Enlightenment. Like many other
working men he was convinced that practicing knowledge
improves both mankind and society (“Boereprofessors”)


http://www.lorentzce...rge Huitema.pdf

Edited by Abramelin, 22 December 2011 - 06:17 PM.


#8951    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:10 PM

The only persons ever to use the word "watchstar" were Sandbach (translator of Ottema's book about the OLB) and a science fiction writer, Pamela Sargent (1980).

What could this word mean, or the OLB word "wak-star" ("waak-ster" in modern Dutch) it is a translation of?



"watch kept on a festival eve"

vigil
early 13c., "eve of a religious festival" (an occasion for devotional watching or observance), from Anglo-Fr. and O.Fr. vigile, from L. vigilia "watch, watchfulness," from vigil "watchful, awake," from PIE *wog-/*weg- "be lively or active, be strong" (cf. L. vigere "be lively, thrive," velox "fast, lively," vegere "to enliven;" Skt. vaja- "strength, speed;" O.E. wacan "to wake up, arise," wacian "to be awake;" O.H.G. wahta "watch, vigil"). Meaning "watch kept on a festival eve" is from late 14c.; that of "occasion of keeping awake for some purpose" is recorded from 1711
.

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none


wake (n.2)
"state of wakefulness," O.E. -wacu (as in nihtwacu "night watch"), related to watch; and partly from O.N. vaka "vigil, eve before a feast," related to vaka "be awake" (cf. O.H.G. wahta "watch, vigil," M.Du. wachten "to watch, guard;" see wake (v.)). Meaning "a sitting up at night with a corpse" is attested from early 15c. (the verb in this sense is recorded from mid-13c.). The custom largely survived as an Irish activity. Wakeman (c.1200), which survives as a surname, was M.E. for "watchman."

http://www.etymonlin...searchmode=none
http://www.etymonlin...owed_in_frame=0


"Watchstar": a star of which a certain position in the skies or just its appearence announces some festival/special day of the year?

+++

Pamela Sargent used the word as the title for her book about some comet.

In Dutch we had a word for 'comet' and the word was "staartster", and it meant a star with a tail or 'tailed star'.

Another word was "gehaarde ster" or in English, a 'hairy star".

http://www.etymologi...refwoord/komeet

.

Edited by Abramelin, 22 December 2011 - 10:24 PM.


#8952    Abramelin

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Posted 22 December 2011 - 10:26 PM

Page 149 of:

Physical Theories of Comets, From Aristotle to Whiple 2008

Posted Image

http://books.google....epage&q&f=false


#8953    Abramelin

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:08 PM

The date of 2194 BCE in the Oera Linda Book, what was it based on?

-1- Astrology (some special and rare conjunction)?
-2- Astronomy (an actual/probable impact of a comet - Edmund Halley/William Whiston/Alewyn)
-3- Biblical chronology (Friesche Volksalmanak)?
-4- A combination of 1&2 or 1&3 or 2&3 ?

I think we have covered every possibility by now, but for option -3- I did find something new:

Noah's Flood: Bible Stories: Bible accuracy: bible calendars: Bible Patriarchs.
According to Antiquities 1:6:5 Abraham was born 292 ARTIFICIAL years after the flood. By this standard the flood occurred in 2184 BCE (unless the data was recorded in true solar years, in which case it will have occurred in 2205 BCE). Josephus reiterates the stipulated Biblical data of 292 years separating the Flood Event and the Birth of Abraham.


http://www.kingscale...=viewnews&id=29

http://www.kingscale...PPENDIX_17.html

The mean of 2184 and 2205 would 2194.5 BCE. That's what someone would do to be on the 'safe side'.

If anyone wants to check this guys calculations: be my guest, lol.

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 December 2011 - 12:23 PM.


#8954    Abramelin

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:43 PM

Menno, I found the meaning of the word "KWIK" :

Idioticon Frisicum. Friesch Latijnisch-Nederlandsch woordenboek, uit oude HSS

http://www.archive.o...age/n2/mode/1up
http://www.archive.o...ge/n14/mode/1up

"kuic", pecus, vee. A.7.22: Fiarfote kuie, Viervoetig vee. (in English: "kuic", pecus, cattle. A.7.22: four-feeted cows/cattle, quadrupedal cattle).

"kuic" is "kwik".

It's on page 310 of the book, or page 172 of the online version I linked to.

++

This was the quote from te OLB:

tha aldergrâtesta âdiska sind algaettar hêten, thrvchdam se yvin grûsich bitte an thet rotte kwik, that mith-a strâma fon boppa nêi tha delta dryweth

Middle Dutch-ish:
de allergrootste eidechsen zijn 'algaettar' geheten, doordat zij even gretig bijten aan het rotte kwik dat met-de stroom van boven naa de delta drijft

Sandbach:
the largest are called alligators, because they eat as greedily the putrid cattle that float down the stream

.

Edited by Abramelin, 23 December 2011 - 03:54 PM.


#8955    Alewyn

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 03:52 PM

 Abramelin, on 23 December 2011 - 12:08 PM, said:

The date of 2194 BCE in the Oera Linda Book, what was it based on?

-1- Astrology (some special and rare conjunction)?
-2- Astronomy (an actual/probable impact of a comet - Edmund Halley/William Whiston/Alewyn)
-3- Biblical chronology (Friesche Volksalmanak)?
-4- A combination of 1&2 or 1&3 or 2&3 ?

I think we have covered every possibility by now, but for option -3- I did find something new:

You left out one possibility:

-5- Direct observation, i.e. the OLB is based on fact.

Biblical chronology and, by implication, the Friesche Volksalmanak which is based thereon is unlikely. Why would they have used an inferred or calculated  Biblical date (i.e. the Bible was their prime, and only source) and not have used the Biblical description of the flood. The OLB and Biblical descriptions of the flood are completely different from one another.

Edited by Alewyn, 23 December 2011 - 03:53 PM.