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What does this mean for America?


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#91    joc

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:31 AM

View Postsupervike, on 12 November 2012 - 03:26 AM, said:

But, you realize 'obamaphones' are a program that was started years ago under President Reagan's tenure.  The program is called 'lifeline'.  It was just land lines until it was upgraded to include cell phones under a certain more recent president's term.  And guess what? THAT wasn't Obama either.  That was George W. Bush.

That's the problem with almost everything you say, you only include part of the message, and none of the truth.
This has already been discussed and as I said before (sorry you missed it) I know that!  AND...I am not the one that dubbed it the ObamaPhone...there was a website called Obamaphone.com that directed you to the free phone program.  And it was that chick from Cleveland that went on and on and on about the ObamaPhone.   There...is that the rest of the truth you were looking for?

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#92    supervike

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 03:36 AM

Ok, yeah, that'll work.    LOL.

:blush:


#93    MissMelsWell

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:07 AM

View Postjoc, on 12 November 2012 - 03:28 AM, said:

How could I miss that?  Oh yeah, I must have had my head in a box of sand when Justice Roberts (or was it Judge Judy, I always get those two mixed up) made that the law of the land.

But, please explain to me something...cause I'm a little slow...How is it that suddenly if everyone has an insurance policy that the insurance companies will suddenly be able to pay for Every medical expense known to mankind?

So your alternative is to have people just croak or go without health care? Or do you think it's OK when people have crazy medical bills and just don't pay them? Then claim bankrupsy? Because I'm sure you don't end up paying for that right? I'd like to hear what you think should be done about healthcare... and nothing isn't an option... especially not to me who's dealing with a serious health condition that's much worse today because I haven't had health care for 10 years because I coudn't afford to buy it as an individual.

What's your solution? Be very specific.

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#94    joc

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:31 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 12 November 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

So your alternative is to have people just croak or go without health care? Or do you think it's OK when people have crazy medical bills and just don't pay them? Then claim bankrupsy? Because I'm sure you don't end up paying for that right? I'd like to hear what you think should be done about healthcare... and nothing isn't an option... especially not to me who's dealing with a serious health condition that's much worse today because I haven't had health care for 10 years because I coudn't afford to buy it as an individual.

What's your solution? Be very specific.
The first solution would be to allow Health Insurance Companies to expand beyond state lines.  I would even say allow Health Insurance Companies from other countries get in on the game.  That would immediately and 'drastically' lower health insurance premiums across the board...what keeps things sane is competition...I live in Texas...why the hell should I be unable to buy a health insurance policy from a company in California?  Chew on that one awhile.

Can I just please be real here for a moment?  Thank you!  Situation:  I need medical treatment.  I go to a doctor.  The doctor charges x amount.  I pay him.  I get treatment.  The doctor gets paid.  Situation resolved right? Right!   Okay, follow me here:  I need medical treatment.  I go to the doctor.  The doctor charges x amount.  I don't pay him anything because the insurance company picks up the tab.
I get treatment..The doctor gets paid...and the insurance company spends some of my monthly premium actually paying a bill.
Now...what happens in this situation:   I need medical treatment.  I can't afford it and I don't have insurance...but...that's okay because ObamaCare is gonna pick up the tab.  I get treatment...the doctor gets paid, and Obamacare spends some of the money they took from me in the form of taxes to pay for it.  Everybody's happy right? Right.....

......but here is where you have to keep on playing out the scenario because it is the most important situation:

If everybody is covered for everything....do you really think the federal government is going to pay for that through forcing everyone to buy an insurance premium?  Do you really think that is going to be enough?  I don't.  Alot of economists don't.  So then what happens?  I need medical treatment...(a few years into Obamacare)...I go to the doctor, the doctor says I need surgery and he'll put me on the list...I say what list...he says...well, there are a lot of other people who need the same surgery and there are only so many doctors to do it and only so many available ORs and so you are just going to have to wait your turn...so I wait my turn...and then I find out.  I can't have the surgery because I am too old for it.  Too old? I say... Well...and yada, yada, yada...until the cows come home.
When the truth is...they can't afford to pay everyone's medical bills...and like you said in your post...So your alternative is to have people just croak or go without health care? Or do you think it's OK when people have crazy medical bills and just don't pay them? Well, if I can't afford the bill, and the government can't afford the bill...who the hell is going to pay the Doctors?  And if the doctors don't get paid...how long do you think it will be before there is a real shortage of doctors?  And what may I ask is your solution to that?  Please...be specific!

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#95    Jinxdom

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 04:59 AM

View Postjoc, on 10 November 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:


Yes...and ObamaCare hasn't even begun yet...and you don't really have any idea what is going to happen when it does begin...

I am hereby forever mending this old saying:   ...it now will read.... You can fool Half of the people ALL of the time...


dude.... you didn't realize some of the act is in effect right now?!? mostly the stuff I mentioned?!?


#96    joc

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:26 AM

View PostJinxdom, on 12 November 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

dude.... you didn't realize some of the act is in effect right now?!? mostly the stuff I mentioned?!?
Is that like the 'en vogue' thing to say now?  I swear, the next time someone says to me...you didn't realize this or that?  I am going to whip kick them right in the face!
Dude!   You don't have a clue what is coming down the pike do you?  The actual 'teeth' of this monster are tucked way back until 2014...by design...then once that mother opens it's mouth and everyone is all excited...the teeth come out and then it is too late.  Hell, it is already too late.  So when you get your freaking head bitten off by the monster...i.e.  When they tell your Mom...sorry Mrs. Jinxdom...protocol doesn't allow that particular surgery for a woman of your age and background...don't expect me to tell you I am sympathetic to your situation...and don't expect me to say I told you so either...don't expect anything...except to bury your Mom or Sister or Aunt or YOU prematurely because a bankrupt government destroyed the Golden Goose of Capitalism.

Edited by joc, 12 November 2012 - 05:28 AM.

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#97    WoIverine

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 05:57 AM

View Postjoc, on 12 November 2012 - 05:26 AM, said:

Is that like the 'en vogue' thing to say now?  I swear, the next time someone says to me...you didn't realize this or that?  I am going to whip kick them right in the face!

so...joc, you didn't realize that this was one of the funnier posts I've seen in a while, did you? lol


#98    joc

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:48 AM

View PostWoIverine, on 12 November 2012 - 05:57 AM, said:

so...joc, you didn't realize that this was one of the funnier posts I've seen in a while, did you? lol

You asked for it:



Edited by joc, 12 November 2012 - 10:25 AM.

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#99    LucidElement

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:39 AM

View Postquestionmark, on 11 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

So, you belong to the group that does not sponge off the government but foes not want to pay taxes for the services it provides. Fair enough.

What are you talking about?? I have NEVER sponged off the government one time.. I spend so much money in taxes its ****g crazy.  I donate to those people to sponge off.. make sense before you start critizing. but then again, and again.. you live in Greece, why the hell are you even part of this conversation that deals with the United State of America's government? seriously lol?

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#100    LucidElement

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:43 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 11 November 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

Of course you're confused. Do you live in New York?

What you pay is dependant on what state you live in.

Also, if you're working, your company subsidizes your health insurance costs so you pay less out of pocket. (since I"m working right now, I pay $127 out of pocket for my health ins. every month) If I wasn't working or if like the last 10 years I was working but had no company insurance, and had to buy it myself, without my company subsidy, I'd pay $640-$670 a month.

Edit: I just looked again, since i haven't scoped individual insurance in about 3 years since I went back to work--looks like a new option has been added, now I can get a plan for $160 a month with a 10K deductable. Yay, still not very affordable is it? The really decent plans that are comparable to what I get it work now have gone down to about $607. So Obamacare is a start, the costs are going down with more options already. But in my opinion it's still not enough.

Oh and by the way. your pre-existing conditions are covered under your current plans because Obamacare required it, effective in 2010. You're welcome.

Actually, obamacare does not go into effect until 2014... so no such thing as obama care lol.. and yes i pay 240.00 (Out of pocket) not thru my company.. my company does not offer health care.. my deductible is 2500.00 a year.. i pay more because of my medication i take. but again. out of pocket... and yes my buddy ALSO lives in Manhattan, NYC.. pays 200.00 a month for a PPO, his deductible is 2500.00.. BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD.. go look at blue cross blue shield.. NYC, CA, FL, anywhere.. lol its like 150-300 a month individual plan.. and again, NO OBAMACARE has kicked in yet till 2014..

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#101    LucidElement

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 11:51 AM

View PostMissMelsWell, on 12 November 2012 - 04:07 AM, said:

So your alternative is to have people just croak or go without health care? Or do you think it's OK when people have crazy medical bills and just don't pay them? Then claim bankrupsy? Because I'm sure you don't end up paying for that right? I'd like to hear what you think should be done about healthcare... and nothing isn't an option... especially not to me who's dealing with a serious health condition that's much worse today because I haven't had health care for 10 years because I coudn't afford to buy it as an individual.

What's your solution? Be very specific.

its "Bankruptcy" first of all.. and second of all.. www.empireblue.com.. your bluecross provider for NYC.. very affordable.. and 10 years ago.. EVEN much more affordable.. and even today its not 640.00 a month lol.. Specific enough?? its allll there for you..

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#102    docyabut2

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 12:13 PM

I really don`t see any difference except for more added debt to the tax payer. I know they want end all medicare and put everyone on a single one payer plan to the government  and everyone has to pay that health tax, when they file their income taxs every year or pay a pentaly.However half the people don`t even pay taxes and  there will be more people not paying any income taxes when more of the jobs are lost,  all I see it as a bigger medicade program to the people who do pay the taxs have to pay.


#103    MissMelsWell

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:25 PM

View PostLucidElement, on 12 November 2012 - 11:43 AM, said:

Actually, obamacare does not go into effect until 2014... so no such thing as obama care lol.. and yes i pay 240.00 (Out of pocket) not thru my company.. my company does not offer health care.. my deductible is 2500.00 a year.. i pay more because of my medication i take. but again. out of pocket... and yes my buddy ALSO lives in Manhattan, NYC.. pays 200.00 a month for a PPO, his deductible is 2500.00.. BLUE CROSS BLUE SHIELD.. go look at blue cross blue shield.. NYC, CA, FL, anywhere.. lol its like 150-300 a month individual plan.. and again, NO OBAMACARE has kicked in yet till 2014..

Dude, you're TOTALLY wrong. Portions of "obamacare" have gone into effect, like the pre-existing condition clause. the full plan doesnt go into effect until 2014 but portions of it have already. So yes, your pre-existing conditions were required to have been covered in 2010. Look it up. Prior to 2010, pre-existing wasn't covered.

In my state, I can't get Blue Cross for $150, unless it's catostrophic care. Do you know what that is? I can't afford $150 for nothing. It covers NOTHING unless I"m in some kind of freak accident.  And, the deductable is... drum roll... 10K.

And that $300 a month plan, you know what that covers? Virtually nothing and the deductable and patient portion is so high it's also not worth buying, 30% of the bill would be my responsibility to pay along with $35 co-pays each time I walked into the office. For my upcoming surgery, do you know witht that plan how much I'd be responsible for in my state? $7500 and it doesn't cover prescriptions so that bill is going to be even higher when I get it!. I haven't got that kind of money, especially after paying $300 a month for the premiums!

If I want comparable to what I get at work now, and buy it on my own, it would be $607 a month! and that still includes a big patient portion, but manageable if you are working and can make payment arrangements with the hospital. You have to read the small print before you buy a health plan. I hope you don't get sick and it leaves you bankrupt. Of course in 2014, it won't.

BTW, I live in Seattle, not NYC. It's MUCH higher in Washington and covers less than it does in NY. That's why I asked if you live in NY. NY has had heavily regulated insurance companies for years for both auto and health.

Edited by MissMelsWell, 12 November 2012 - 02:30 PM.

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"Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Benjamin Franklin

#104    joc

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:30 PM

Quote

You have to read the small print before you buy a health plan. I hope you don't get sick and it leaves you bankrupt. Of course in 2014, it won't.
By 2016 the Government will be bankrupt.

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#105    MissMelsWell

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 02:41 PM

View Postjoc, on 12 November 2012 - 02:30 PM, said:

By 2016 the Government will be bankrupt.

Do you have anything constructive to add? The government is already bankrupt thanks to a giant war pointless war put on a credit card.

Oh and I didn't like your plan for fixing health care. I can't see how buying across state lines is going to fix the problem of high premiums and outrageous deductables. And you talked some nonsense about paying doctors.Contrary to popular belief, doctors don't make as much money as you might think they do. My sister is a doctor, she makes less than I do and we won't even talk about her student loans. Beleive it or not, my sister is an advocate of full-on socialized medicine.

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