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why is homophobia commonplace?


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#196    Frank Merton

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 03:56 PM

I don't really buy that unless he was already infected by your bias.  Laotians aren't like that at all, and there are plenty of very effeminate men visible in the streets unmolested -- in fact pretty much unnoticed.


#197    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 March 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I don't really buy that unless he was already infected by your bias.  Laotians aren't like that at all, and there are plenty of very effeminate men visible in the streets unmolested -- in fact pretty much unnoticed.

Many homosexuals think homosexuality is wrong.

But for them its too late to stop as they've already tasted the fobidden fruit.


#198    Sherapy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:31 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 27 February 2013 - 01:18 PM, said:

The label 'homophobia' is applied to anyone who disagrees with what homosexuals are doing.

Homosexuality is no longer listed as a mental illness. When we search psychology to find out why we dont discover that psychologists found evidence showing it wasnt mental illness. What is revealed is it was taken off the list simply because human rights groops were demanding more freedoms for them.

Therefore I'm against homosexuality because I see it as a symptom of mental illness and specifically a sociopathic disorder. As a young child a combination of abusive parents, poor diet and genetics triggers a sociopathic disorder. The disorder stops certain areas of the brain developing properly including those that control sexuality.

I'm also against it on religious grounds however after reading the bible I think there are misconceptions promoted by the Church. The only unforgivable sin according to the Holy book is blasphemy. Homosexuality can be forgiven and theres passages in Matthew where homosexuals have been forgiven.

I'm also not a liberal I'm conservative.

Your own personal opinion/what you have been taught/or come up with yourself. is not based in facts, (of course you are entitled to it), but here are the facts for your consideration.


In a review of published studies comparing homosexual and heterosexual samples on psychological tests, Gonsiorek (1982) found that, although some differences have been observed in test results between homosexuals and heterosexuals, both groups consistently score within the normal range. Gonsiorek concluded that "Homosexuality in and of itself is unrelated to psychological disturbance or maladjustment. Homosexuals as a group are not more psychologically disturbed on account of their homosexuality" (Gonsiorek, 1982, p. 74; see also reviews by Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston & McKee, 1978; Riess, 1980).


Confronted with overwhelming empirical evidence and changing cultural views of homosexuality, psychiatrists and psychologists radically altered their views, beginning in the 1970s.



In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).
http://psychology.uc...tal_health.html

Edited by Sherapy, 06 March 2013 - 04:34 PM.




#199    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:33 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

No it isnt.

As a young child my instincts automatically told me those people arent normal. Thats without anybody trying to indocturnate me to a particular way of thinking. I say my disapproval of homosexuality was inherited.

The instcts of a young child are hardly the best thing to go on. I've seen young childen try to eat poisonous berries because their instincts said they'd be good. There are many other such examples, but just because the instinct of a child thought x was good or bad doesn't validate it one bit.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
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#200    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:34 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 04:26 PM, said:

Many homosexuals think homosexuality is wrong.

But for them its too late to stop as they've already tasted the fobidden fruit.

The ones that think its wrong' largely do so because of religious indoctrination, which is hardly heathy and is largely due to fear.

Edited by shadowhive, 06 March 2013 - 04:36 PM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#201    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 04:49 PM

View PostSherapy, on 06 March 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

Your own personal opinion/what you have been taught/or come up with yourself. is not based in facts, (of course you are entitled to it), but here are the facts for your consideration.

In a review of published studies comparing homosexual and heterosexual samples on psychological tests, Gonsiorek (1982) found that, although some differences have been observed in test results between homosexuals and heterosexuals, both groups consistently score within the normal range. Gonsiorek concluded that "Homosexuality in and of itself is unrelated to psychological disturbance or maladjustment. Homosexuals as a group are not more psychologically disturbed on account of their homosexuality" (Gonsiorek, 1982, p. 74; see also reviews by Gonsiorek, 1991; Hart, Roback, Tittler, Weitz, Walston & McKee, 1978; Riess, 1980).

Confronted with overwhelming empirical evidence and changing cultural views of homosexuality, psychiatrists and psychologists radically altered their views, beginning in the 1970s.
  
In 1973, the weight of empirical data, coupled with changing social norms and the development of a politically active gay community in the United States, led the Board of Directors of the American Psychiatric Association to remove homosexuality from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM).
http://psychology.uc...tal_health.html

You are quoting from an Author arguing that homosexuality isnt a mental illness not from a peer reviewed paper. Even he is forced to concieve (though I notice it gets played down) that there are psychological differences.

'A strong case can be made that the male homosexual lifestyle itself, in its most extreme form, is mentally disturbed' (N.E. Whitehead, Ph.D). I gather extreme means completely 100% gay.

Now please dont try an argue that someone with a psychology docturate is biased, lying or wrong. That is unless of cours you can find that peer reviewed paper which I'm waiting for.


#202    Sherapy

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 05:19 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

You are quoting from an Author arguing that homosexuality isnt a mental illness not from a peer reviewed paper. Even he is forced to concieve (though I notice it gets played down) that there are psychological differences.

'A strong case can be made that the male homosexual lifestyle itself, in its most extreme form, is mentally disturbed' (N.E. Whitehead, Ph.D). I gather extreme means completely 100% gay.

Now please dont try an argue that someone with a psychology docturate is biased, lying or wrong. That is unless of cours you can find that peer reviewed paper which I'm waiting for.


I am simply asking you to consider the facts.


In the DSM Homosexuality was removed as any kind of disorder in 1973.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/DSM-IV_Codes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

(This is the new changes to be instituted in 2013.)

In 1870 William Wundt  applied Scientific methodology to the study of behavior, this method was called "introspection"(looking within to find elements of behavior)  which in turn led to Psychology being considered  a science in 1879. Prior to this period Psychology was not considered a science.

Edited by Sherapy, 06 March 2013 - 05:21 PM.




#203    OverSword

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:16 PM

View PostFrank Merton, on 06 March 2013 - 03:56 PM, said:

I don't really buy that unless he was already infected by your bias.  Laotians aren't like that at all, and there are plenty of very effeminate men visible in the streets unmolested -- in fact pretty much unnoticed.
Yeah, that's what I was laughing at, his blidness to what was in front of him.  There was one very effeminate  older Loatian man everyone called Uncle who was never married and made young men very uncomfortable by always walking up behind them and giving them shoulder massages.

Oh, um, my bias?  Are you saying my bias because I don't buy into the gay dog myth?


#204    Mr Right Wing

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 06:51 PM

View PostSherapy, on 06 March 2013 - 05:19 PM, said:

I am simply asking you to consider the facts.


In the DSM Homosexuality was removed as any kind of disorder in 1973.

http://en.wikipedia....ki/DSM-IV_Codes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DSM-5

(This is the new changes to be instituted in 2013.)

In 1870 William Wundt  applied Scientific methodology to the study of behavior, this method was called "introspection"(looking within to find elements of behavior)  which in turn led to Psychology being considered  a science in 1879. Prior to this period Psychology was not considered a science.

Yes and when you look at the decision to remove it from the list it wasnt based on the psychological discovery that it wasnt a mental illness. You actually find the decision was taken because human rights groups were demanding more rights for homosexuals. Even the vote to remove it was close too at 55% not that it matters.

I'm willing to accept that some people are not clear cut male or female at birth and some are turned gay by chemical exposure. For most of them though they have brain development issues caused by childhood trauma. Most notably the regions involving sexuality.

And yes 66% of homosexuals can be cured.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 06 March 2013 - 06:52 PM.


#205    captain pish

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:27 PM

I think that homosexuality is a malfunction. The very basic instincts of a male and female of any species is to procreate is it not? If that instinct is obscured or altered in any way it is a malfunction. Wether hormonal or chemical in nature the urge to mate with the same sex is completely un natural in any species. I feel that there is an elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about in today's society and people are frightened to be labelled homophobic and smeared as right wing for ever daring mention the possibilities never mind researching them.
What I can never get my head around is that people say that it is simply a preference. I have never seen a preference come with so many common symptoms. I'd say that 95% of gay males I have ever met all present these symptoms, the feminine swivel of the hips whilst walking, the over elaborate hand gestures a floppy wrists, the softly spoken words with an emphasis on the sssssss, the attention grabbing mannerisms and overall just the feminization of a male.
I don't understand how simply preferring having sex with the same sex could make somebody display different physiological traits. Same goes for the female homosexuals, a huge majority tend to display male traits.
I'm not trying to say that homosexuals should be diagnosed and treated but it should be recognized  that it is some form of physiological or biological disorder. I really don't think that it is psychological, I genuinely believe that they feel how they feel but the question is, what is causing it?
After all the human being isn't operating how nature intended it to.

Edited by captain pish, 06 March 2013 - 07:30 PM.


#206    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 07:52 PM

View Postcaptain pish, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

I think that homosexuality is a malfunction. The very basic instincts of a male and female of any species is to procreate is it not? If that instinct is obscured or altered in any way it is a malfunction. Wether hormonal or chemical in nature the urge to mate with the same sex is completely un natural in any species. I feel that there is an elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about in today's society and people are frightened to be labelled homophobic and smeared as right wing for ever daring mention the possibilities never mind researching them.
What I can never get my head around is that people say that it is simply a preference. I have never seen a preference come with so many common symptoms. I'd say that 95% of gay males I have ever met all present these symptoms, the feminine swivel of the hips whilst walking, the over elaborate hand gestures a floppy wrists, the softly spoken words with an emphasis on the sssssss, the attention grabbing mannerisms and overall just the feminization of a male.
I don't understand how simply preferring having sex with the same sex could make somebody display different physiological traits. Same goes for the female homosexuals, a huge majority tend to display male traits.
I'm not trying to say that homosexuals should be diagnosed and treated but it should be recognized  that it is some form of physiological or biological disorder. I really don't think that it is psychological, I genuinely believe that they feel how they feel but the question is, what is causing it?
After all the human being isn't operating how nature intended it to.

Well to the first part, what about hetrosexuals that decide not to have children? Is there something wrong with them by the same premise because they don't have the 'basic instinct' to breed? Second what about gay people that actually go out of their way to have children?

I always wonder, what is with people and their fixation with the actual sex. It's actually quite disturbing how obsessed people seem to be with being disgusted by what gay people do in the bedroom. You'd think that gay people were having sex on your kitchen table.

I know a lot of gay/lesbian and bisexual people and you know what? What you're saying is nonsense. Yes some people do that, but it's nowhere near 95% that do.

The strange thing about human being's is that there is no 'standard model'. Every human being is unique and different in pretty much everyway. By that logic you could say that every man that wasn't sterotypically male because they didn't posess physical strength, were unconcerned about sport etc had something 'wrong with them'. The same if a woman didn't like wearing dresses or makeup, hated the colour pink, liked sports etc. So since there isn't a 'standard' with which all human beings shuld follow, why are you so concerned that one group of people conforms to an imaginary standard?

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#207    shadowhive

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:00 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

Yes and when you look at the decision to remove it from the list it wasnt based on the psychological discovery that it wasnt a mental illness. You actually find the decision was taken because human rights groups were demanding more rights for homosexuals. Even the vote to remove it was close too at 55% not that it matters.

I'm willing to accept that some people are not clear cut male or female at birth and some are turned gay by chemical exposure. For most of them though they have brain development issues caused by childhood trauma. Most notably the regions involving sexuality.

And yes 66% of homosexuals can be cured.

Oh no, those pesky human rights groups, they're at it again trying to make society a better place for people, oh the horror!

The thing you fail to recognise is this: things change. Simple fact. As we gain more knowledge about the world opinions and attitudes change. Take being left handed. That was regarded as being a disrder' for a long time until attitudes changed. The world moves forward and this is something that has The decision has been made things have changed, let it go.

Childhood trauma is your go to answer. Again, why won't you let that go?

The figure is most likely much less than that. But let''s for a moment, say that a cure is advertised for gay people that 'cures' 66%. Now it wouldn't be listed as a favorable cure because it had had a high rate of failure. But the big thing is what about the 44%? You'd make them go through a cure, and judging by the 'cures' that have been advertised it would involve some sort of torture or cause some form of psycological damage, for what? To suit you? And how do you think that 44% would be treated (and those that wouldn't want the 'cure')?

Edited by shadowhive, 06 March 2013 - 08:06 PM.

So just take off that disguise, everyone knows that you're only, pretty on the outside
Where are those droideka?
No one can tell you who you are
"There's the trouble with fanatics. They're easy to manipulate, but somehow they take everything five steps too far."
"The circumstances of one's birth are irrelevent, it's what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."

#208    Valdemar the Great

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:06 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

What do you mean 'your God'?

You make it sound like I'm the minority when you are.
So now we're expected to believe that you are a devout churchgoer, are we?

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#209    OverSword

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:08 PM

View Postcaptain pish, on 06 March 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

What I can never get my head around is that people say that it is simply a preference. I have never seen a preference come with so many common symptoms. I'd say that 95% of gay males I have ever met all present these symptoms, the feminine swivel of the hips whilst walking, the over elaborate hand gestures a floppy wrists, the softly spoken words with an emphasis on the sssssss, the attention grabbing mannerisms and overall just the feminization of a male.
I don't understand how simply preferring having sex with the same sex could make somebody display different physiological traits. Same goes for the female homosexuals, a huge majority tend to display male traits.

That's pretty much a steroetype.  While these overly effeminate gay men do exist and overly masculine lesbians, I can tell you from living in a very gay place for decades that most homosexuals do not display these traits.  The gay couple that manage my apartment are not overly effeminate and were you to meet them one on one it would take a bit before you realized your were speaking to an openly gay man.


#210    Odin11

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Posted 06 March 2013 - 08:25 PM

View PostMr Right Wing, on 06 March 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

What do you mean 'your God'?

You make it sound like I'm the minority when you are.

I mean he's your god, not mine.
Even if your god showed up tomorrow and proved beyond a doubt that he was real, if he acted and thought like you say he does, I would acknowledge him but I still would not worship him. Because any being that thinks like you could not be a loving god, and is not worth worshiping.

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