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EU 'makes UK more valuable to US


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#46    questionmark

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 12 January 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thanks questionmark. I was believing the EU was young and wanted to be sure I was accurate enough.

Based on the age of the EU I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt dissolve altogether eventually considering the diverse nationalities and political systems involved. I just dont get how the US became part of the EU conversation as we have enough problems at home and should be more concerned about our own borders and why they are so strict and why NAFTA failed America.

The EU is not NAFTA, at least not at this stage. It outgrew its NAFTA stage in '79. Now more laws are made in Strasbourg (seat of the European Parliament) than in the national parliaments. And expect the first elected EU prezz within the next 15 years.

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#47    Br Cornelius

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Posted 12 January 2013 - 06:45 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 12 January 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thanks questionmark. I was believing the EU was young and wanted to be sure I was accurate enough.

Based on the age of the EU I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt dissolve altogether eventually considering the diverse nationalities and political systems involved. I just dont get how the US became part of the EU conversation as we have enough problems at home and should be more concerned about our own borders and why they are so strict and why NAFTA failed America.
The US wants the EU to remain as open as possible so that it can trade into the largest economic zone with minimal tariffs. The UK is on exactly the same Neo-Liberal economic pathway as the US, so the US sees the UK as a lever to influence policy in a sympathetic direction and to protect its large body of inward investment within the UK.
America will lose money in two ways if the UK pulls out;
- it will cost to divest its inward investment (inevitable even if tariffs to trade shift a fraction)
- it will likely be that trade arrangements between the EU and USA will not be as open in the future - especially in light of the fact that America is trying to devalue its way back to prosperity - an option not  as easy to achieve for the EU.

A UK pull out could turn into a bonanza for Ireland as the Americans shift their multinationals to a low Corporate Tax zone with strong ties. Come to think of it - sling your hook UK.

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 12 January 2013 - 06:52 PM.

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#48    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:20 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 12 January 2013 - 06:45 PM, said:


A UK pull out could turn into a bonanza for Ireland as the Americans shift their multinationals to a low Corporate Tax zone with strong ties. Come to think of it - sling your hook UK.

Br Cornelius

Ireland is not going to be receiving any "bonanza" whilst it remains in the Euro.

But what happens to Ireland when Britain leaves the EU is of no concern to me.  I just want Britain out.


#49    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 04:26 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 13 January 2013 - 04:20 PM, said:

Ireland is not going to be receiving any "bonanza" whilst it remains in the Euro.

But what happens to Ireland when Britain leaves the EU is of no concern to me.  I just want Britain out.
You really don't understand what America is saying here - they want Europe to be strong and they will support it with policy decisions. Ireland already receives some of the highest per capita inward investment from America of all the European countries, if the UK pulls out that will rise much higher as the UK's American inward investment declines and businesses transfer to Ireland , which shares one of the lowest tax bases for foreign direct investment with the UK. There will be no sentiment when multinationals look for the largest market to sell into.

Simply wishing it not to be so will not change these basic facts.

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#50    itsnotoutthere

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 05:22 PM

I think all this panic ridden shrieking from the europhiles is misplaced as our glorious leaders left or right have no intension of letting the British public have a say on whether we stay or leave the E.U. they already know what the majority of people want & if that means putting an end to the euro gravy train they're not gonna let it happen.

Edited by itsnotoutthere, 13 January 2013 - 06:20 PM.

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#51    stevewinn

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 07:55 PM

View PostAsteroidX, on 12 January 2013 - 06:38 PM, said:

Thanks questionmark. I was believing the EU was young and wanted to be sure I was accurate enough.

Based on the age of the EU I wouldnt be surprised if it didnt dissolve altogether eventually considering the diverse nationalities and political systems involved. I just dont get how the US became part of the EU conversation as we have enough problems at home and should be more concerned about our own borders and why they are so strict and why NAFTA failed America.

The EU will come to an end, in spectacular fashion. just look at the EU today, look at the Euro zone. - this is why the UK needs to leave - leaving the EU to continue in whatever direction they want. sit back and with time watch the fireworks from the white cliffs. it promises to be the greatest show on earth.

Edited by stevewinn, 13 January 2013 - 07:55 PM.

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#52    Br Cornelius

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 09:02 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 13 January 2013 - 07:55 PM, said:

The EU will come to an end, in spectacular fashion. just look at the EU today, look at the Euro zone. - this is why the UK needs to leave - leaving the EU to continue in whatever direction they want. sit back and with time watch the fireworks from the white cliffs. it promises to be the greatest show on earth.
All great endeavours come to an end, but the EU is in its infancy. Growing pains is all it is experiencing.


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#53    spud the mackem

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Posted 13 January 2013 - 11:48 PM

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.

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#54    Render

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 09:14 AM

View Poststevewinn, on 11 January 2013 - 04:54 PM, said:

Where in my post did i say France The Netherland or Ireland Held a referendum to leave the EU. - if you read it correctly. i never said what you are implying.

Oh don't do this, don't play this silly game.

ExpandMyMind got it, as did I.

For your insight:

View Poststevewinn, on 10 January 2013 - 09:23 PM, said:

\

over half of the people of europe would vote to leave the EU if given the vote. just look at voting in the EU.

The Dutch said NO, the French said NO the Irish said NO. every time the people have been given the vote on referendums they have voted NO. and each and every time ignored,


It's very clear what you said, don't even try to pretend you didn't say it.
Anyway it doesn't matter.
And the Irish have been saying quite a bit of "In favour" if you actually read the results of the referendums. You just say what you want to believe, it doesn't make it true.


#55    TheLastLazyGun

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:26 PM

View PostBr Cornelius, on 12 January 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

the crazies seem to have taken over her party.

People in Ireland and other EU countries may think that only "crazy" politicians consider and support the views of the majority of the people of the country which they run, but in Britain we don't see it like that due to that little thing known as democracy.

The fact of the matter is that the Europhile minority of the EU cannot expect to keep up their deluded fantasy that the EU will remain the biggest economy in the world.  The European continent as a great economic power has finished and there are other parts of the world which are coming up to challenge it.  One thing the EU has against it is the fact that its population is shrinking and will continue to shrink in the coming decades.  And when you consider the fact that the US population will continue to grow quickly and it is only a matter of time before its population overtakes the EU, and when you consider that China continues to experience economic growth that the EU can NEVER hope to match, you will realise that the EU's days are the No1 economic power in the world are numbered.  It will not be long before it falls behind China, the United States and maybe other places such as India.

So I hate to burst your deluded EU bubble but I thought I had to tell you the truth.  Europe's days as a great economic power are finished.

Edited by TheLastLazyGun, 14 January 2013 - 01:33 PM.


#56    Br Cornelius

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 01:37 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 14 January 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

People in Ireland and other EU countries may think that only "crazy" politicians consider and support the views of the majority of the people of the country which they run, but in Britain we don't see it like that due to that little thing known as democracy.
Your crazies have been sabotaging your membership of the EU since the UK went in, Thatchers rebate was specifically negotiated so that Britian couldn't avail of structural funding for its regions to rebuild its ailing industrial base - politically expedient but strategically dumb. They have also been pumping out anti-European propaganda through their anti-European right wing media. To say that the UK public is well informed about what EU membership has to offer is far fetched.  To say that the Conservative have been blaming the EU for the consequences of their mismanagement would be nearer to the point. If you do pull out, I wonder who they will seek to blame for the continuing decline of British Industry rather than pointing the finger at the spivs in the City who have been milking the country dry for a generation.

Interesting times indeed.

Here is an interesting debate on the issues, and the comments are particularly worth reading;

http://www.euractiv....analysis-515528

Br Cornelius

Edited by Br Cornelius, 14 January 2013 - 02:11 PM.

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#57    stevewinn

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 06:10 PM

View Postspud the mackem, on 13 January 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.

Well if you remember Parliament held a vote on offering a referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty and the Lib Dems abstained all 64 of them. meaning we lost the vote and so we had no, referendum. the lib dems absatined knowing full well if the UK held a referendum the people would vote NO. and with the Lib Dems being pro-EU they abstained. proving they are a political party of irrelevance and so its proved now, four years later with them now slipping behind UKIP.

View PostRender, on 14 January 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

Oh don't do this, don't play this silly game.

ExpandMyMind got it, as did I.

For your insight:


It's very clear what you said, don't even try to pretend you didn't say it.
Anyway it doesn't matter.
And the Irish have been saying quite a bit of "In favour" if you actually read the results of the referendums. You just say what you want to believe, it doesn't make it true.

Its funny how Questionmark understood my post straight away, the evidence of this is contained within his reply. were he explains to Umer' Expandmymind'. - and seeing how Questionmark is a long term contributer to these EU debates he's well versed on the issue. unlike yourself. who jumped to the wrong conclusion. and in a vain bid to save face you continue to try and tell me what i meant in my own post.

Here is one of my posts, quoted below. NOTE THE DATE and YEAR 2008. the topic was about the EU referendum on the EU/Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. i've highlighted the bold part, just to prove to you once and for all i know what im talking about. Question is do you.  - see how i used the same words, the French Said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO. am i refering to Leaving the EU as you keep claiming NO. I bet your no apologist. but its fair to say having made a fool of yourself one to many times i doubt we'll be seeing a contribution from yourself in this thread.

View Poststevewinn, on 13 June 2008 - 12:40 PM, said:

am ****ing made up, surely the treaty is dead in the water, the EU said it had no plan "B", so it should be the end of,  but the EU wont give up the ideology easy, they'll be back with more ****e, i wish the EU would understand NO, means NO, like the French and the Dutch voted. and now the Irish.

its says it all when it takes a small country like Ireland to save the arses of the French, British, Dutch,

how long will it be before the EU, decide to ban the word NO from the voting paper. style_emoticons/default/grin2.gif leaving us all with the one option.

QUOTE
Ireland has voted No to the Lisbon Treaty, plunging the European Union into a new crisis.

With results coming in from across the country, a final result of 52 per cent against and 48 per cent in favour of the treaty was rapidly hardening. A final declaration is not expected until after 4 pm.

The Lisbon Treaty, the reworked successor to the formal constitutional pact dumped by voters in France and the Netherlands in 2005, officially needs the approval of all 27 EU member states. But only in Ireland has it been put to a popular vote, meaning today's result may have far-reaching consequences for the entire bloc.

Barely two hours after the count began today, the No camp had already started celebrating, while senior Fianna Fail strategists privately and glumly conceded their defeat.

http://www.timesonli...icle4128055.ece



http://www.unexplain...nstitution&st=0

Edited by stevewinn, 14 January 2013 - 06:12 PM.

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#58    keithisco

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:21 PM

View PostTheLastLazyGun, on 12 January 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

Britain will be a much more powerful nation outside the EU as an independent nation which runs its own affairs like most countries do than it will be inside the EU when it will be just one "Member State" amongst many having to follow whatever bizarre and pointless rules Brussels makes us follow and when it has economic growth held back by the stranglehold of Brussels.

In fact, the reason why the Americans, Irish and Germans are getting themselves in a state of panic over the prospect of Britain leaving the EU is precisely because Britain is an influential, powerful nation.  They will not work themselves up in such a state were it Denmark or Portugal threatening to leave the EU.

At the end of the day Britain is the world's fifth largest economy and has the only properly-functioning military in the Western World other than the United States. Britain is more than big enough to stand on its own two feet and the only people who think otherwise are the raving, mouth-frothing, swivel-eyed Europhile loonies who think the EU is some sort of great Nirvana in which every country must be a part of should they wish to acquire political and economic greatness and every country outside the EU (around 87% of the world's nations) are dark, medieval countries where dragons and minotaurs roam but, thankfully, these raving, mouth-frothing, swivel-eyed Europhile loonies are very much in the minority not only in Britain but across Europe.

8th Largest, and France has a far more potent force than the UK... but hey!! Lets not let facts get in the way of your Europhobe Diatribes :w00t:


#59    keithisco

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Posted 14 January 2013 - 07:23 PM

View Poststevewinn, on 14 January 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

Well if you remember Parliament held a vote on offering a referendum on the EU constitution/Lisbon treaty and the Lib Dems abstained all 64 of them. meaning we lost the vote and so we had no, referendum. the lib dems absatined knowing full well if the UK held a referendum the people would vote NO. and with the Lib Dems being pro-EU they abstained. proving they are a political party of irrelevance and so its proved now, four years later with them now slipping behind UKIP.



Its funny how Questionmark understood my post straight away, the evidence of this is contained within his reply. were he explains to Umer' Expandmymind'. - and seeing how Questionmark is a long term contributer to these EU debates he's well versed on the issue. unlike yourself. who jumped to the wrong conclusion. and in a vain bid to save face you continue to try and tell me what i meant in my own post.

Here is one of my posts, quoted below. NOTE THE DATE and YEAR 2008. the topic was about the EU referendum on the EU/Constitution/Lisbon Treaty. i've highlighted the bold part, just to prove to you once and for all i know what im talking about. Question is do you.  - see how i used the same words, the French Said NO the Dutch said NO and the Irish said NO. am i refering to Leaving the EU as you keep claiming NO. I bet your no apologist. but its fair to say having made a fool of yourself one to many times i doubt we'll be seeing a contribution from yourself in this thread.




http://www.unexplain...nstitution&st=0

if you remember, the idea of a EU Constitution was lost by the earlier NO votes from France, Netherlands, and Ireland - therefore it would have been a pointless referendum because the motion was already "Lost".

Once all references to a EU Constitution had been removed then no referendum was required.


#60    smurf0852

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Posted 15 January 2013 - 12:37 AM

View Postspud the mackem, on 13 January 2013 - 11:48 PM, said:

The infighting is hotting up on tonights news, Milliband says we cant possibly leave the Euro's, the Lib-Dems say the same, and Cam says he doesnt really want to leave but may have to if a referendum is offered.These guys are out of touch with the wishes of the Public who want out,but have no say in the matter, all 3 arnt worth a sack of horse doovers.
the people want out because it is what they read in the right wing press .any kind of independent thought is lost .the sun and the daily mail put eye catching headlines about tits and british greatness on the front pages to grab the attention of idiots .
those idiots mostly drive an inch away from your bumper in white vans and rage about how its unfair that have to drive a white van because of those bloody european people. because the sun and daily mail tell them thats what they should do
our country is populated by dip ****s with no more clue about what being in eurpoe means than a bee knows why it happens to be in a hive .





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