23 replies to this topic

[shanlung]

and then, on 21 November 2012 - 12:00 PM, said:

And who will disarm them?
.
.
They will have to be convinced to surrender them.

Let Hamas be armed to the same extent of Israel.
Let the fight be done with equality on all sides.

Then we see how brave the Israelis can be when they are bombed and shelled the same way as they do to others.
And if Israel be convinced that true peace must take place instead of the one sided bullying done by them.

[Raptor Witness]

Regarding the cease fire that began today, apparently the U.S. has agreed to give the Egypt some additional money to guard those tunnels into Gaza from its border, and President Obama agreed to step up naval operations in the region to guard against the shipment of long range missile components, from Iran.

It's a band-aid of course, but far better than a risky ground invasion of Gaza.

Both sides could equally save face at this point. Hamas showed it had some balls, and Israel got to show off her new Iron Dome air defense capability.

It's a good place to stop the fighting and count the cards still in the deck.

[and then]

Raptor Witness, on 21 November 2012 - 11:54 PM, said:

Regarding the cease fire that began today, apparently the U.S. has agreed to give the Egypt some additional money to guard those tunnels into Gaza from its border, and President Obama agreed to step up naval operations in the region to guard against the shipment of long range missile components, from Iran.

It's a band-aid of course, but far better than a risky ground invasion of Gaza.

Both sides could equally save face at this point. Hamas showed it had some balls, and Israel got to show off her new Iron Dome air defense capability.

It's a good place to stop the fighting and count the cards still in the deck.

Another "benefit" of this conflict is as a dry run for the people of Israel to see some of what would be in store if they attack Iran.  They are now "informed consumers".  If they go now they will do so knowing what to expect.  If Netanyahu allowed Obama to stop him on this then there certainly will be no Iran adventure and I suspect that Likud will be toast in the next election.  The Israeli public seem as fickle on leadership as Americans are.  All for the best, I suppose.

[me-wonders]

And the attack is followed by yet another Palestinian request for UN protection..  Which is followed by Israel announcing its intent increase its settlement building.

http://www.guardian....rael-settlement

Personally, if Israel were to face a serious attack, I would not be in favor of defending it, and I think the US has been horribly wrong to protect Israel, and increase its ability to destroy with military weapons.   We should do what Eisenhower did when he was president.  Cut the aid we give Israel.  To achieve anything, we have to get the Zionist out of our political system.

  Of course it isn't too late for these idiots to give real meaning to 12-21-20012.

Edited by me-wonders, 01 December 2012 - 06:18 PM.

[and then]

me-wonders, on 01 December 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

And the attack is followed by yet another Palestinian request for UN protection..  Which is followed by Israel announcing its intent increase its settlement building.

http://www.guardian....rael-settlement

Personally, if Israel were to face a serious attack, I would not be in favor of defending it, and I think the US has been horribly wrong to protect Israel, and increase its ability to destroy with military weapons.   We should do what Eisenhower did when he was president.  Cut the aid we give Israel.  To achieve anything, we have to get the Zionist out of our political system.

  Of course it isn't too late for these idiots to give real meaning to 12-21-20012.

Israel is a tiny nation with a vastly superior military.  It's existence has been challenged since day one, literally.  I support their right to exist at all costs but I also understand the sentiments of those who oppose her policies.  One aspect of the Israel/Palestine issue that most people will not discuss is the elephant in the room IMO.  When the day arrives - as it will - that all the nations on earth have decided to withdraw any support for Israel and to even take up arms against this State, what do you suppose will be the outcome?

[me-wonders]

I think we also need to know who the allies are and how armed they are?  It is my understanding the US is largely responsible for the military build up of Israel and I think this was a bad choice for the US.  It goes with granting arms to other mid east countries as well, and then selling the weapons, escalating the destruction of war, to benefit US interest.   I wonder how history will look at this?  And it is so much about oil, a finite resource.  Oil money is used to buy weapons and these countries will not peacefully fall into poverty when they exhaust their supply of oil.  Too bad we ignore Socrates and the obvious consequences of our decisions.

Quote

http://www.aljazeera...1343853636.html

Edited by me-wonders, 02 December 2012 - 12:34 AM.

[and then]

me-wonders, on 02 December 2012 - 12:26 AM, said:

I think we also need to know who the allies are and how armed they are?  It is my understanding the US is largely responsible for the military build up of Israel and I think this was a bad choice for the US.  It goes with granting arms to other mid east countries as well, and then selling the weapons, escalating the destruction of war, to benefit US interest.   I wonder how history will look at this?  And it is so much about oil, a finite resource.  Oil money is used to buy weapons and these countries will not peacefully fall into poverty when they exhaust their supply of oil.  Too bad we ignore Socrates and the obvious consequences of our decisions.

I agree that the wholesale arming of countries for profit is a detestable thing that has caused mankind no end of suffering.  I think that where Israel is concerned, the turning point came in the late 1960's.  France helped Israel, some say with stolen US uranium, to become a nuclear power.  Once that happened the US was connected at the hip with our middle east ally for all time.  Israel is so small that they can lose only once.  Their enemies are so full of hatred for them (justified or not) that they will not just take land and be satisfied.  Their goal is to annihilate the Jewish State - they've said so many times.  So from Israeli's pov, to lose means to see their children slaughtered.  Since NO ONE would allow this to happen if they could stop it and since the Jews have seen this movie before, they can be expected to use those nukes if they know they are going down.  This is why it is insane for all the countries of the world to act as if Israel can be talked, cajoled or shamed into making a deal that will leave them nearly defenseless against their enemies.  Yet they still keep pushing and pressuring Israel into a tighter and tighter corner.  The Iranian bomb will be like the lighting of a fuse, the beginning of the countdown.

[Stellar]

Quote

State, what do you suppose will be the outcome?

If they fall victim to their own doing, that is technically not the rest of the worlds problem. Just being devils advocate here, but if your friend is bullying a bunch of people, its his fault he gets ganged up on if you don't protect him, not yours.

[and then]

Stellar, on 02 December 2012 - 05:21 AM, said:

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If they fall victim to their own doing, that is technically not the rest of the worlds problem. Just being devils advocate here, but if your friend is bullying a bunch of people, its his fault he gets ganged up on if you don't protect him, not yours.

True enough, but if he then defends himself in a way that burns down the entire neighborhood and maybe the whole town, well the concerns are a little greater for everyone wouldn't you say?  It's a point that no one seems willing to admit - or even talk about - but I guarantee you it is the strongest reason for the US being so accommodating to Israel on their self defense needs.  The grim truth is that if Israel is left to it's own devices and it's neighbors someday decide to "cut the cancer" then capitols from Baghdad to Cairo to Tunis, Tehran and Damascus will become embers and the serious, policy makers in our government know this.  It's not exactly extortion, not as much as what Pakistan is doing but it is a very real issue.  Never Again is a battle cry and a warning to those who would try to destroy these people just because of who they are.  And that IS the rest of the world's problem.