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Rabbi's Weiss view of Zoinism


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#1    SamDavies

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 01:07 AM

This is a link to an interview with a Rabbi, Weiss, in respect to Zionism.

WEISS

But Netanyahu’s controversial reading of history, even his fight to preserve the state of Israel, are questioned by many of Judaism’s own religious authorities.

"This is against the will of the Almighty and this is not what it means to be a Jew," says Jewish religious scholar Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, a spokesman for "Jews against Zionism", who believes that Israel as a state is not legitimate. He says that Zionism has created "rivers of blood" and he opposes the occupation of Palestine."

Hope to see this report later today on Aljazeera as I've only read a brief review. Comments from viewers are interesting.

Edit to add Weiss's comment.

Edited by SamDavies, 12 March 2012 - 01:18 AM.

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#2    and then

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Posted 12 March 2012 - 08:26 AM

View PostSamDavies, on 12 March 2012 - 01:07 AM, said:

This is a link to an interview with a Rabbi, Weiss, in respect to Zionism.

WEISS

But Netanyahu’s controversial reading of history, even his fight to preserve the state of Israel, are questioned by many of Judaism’s own religious authorities.

"This is against the will of the Almighty and this is not what it means to be a Jew," says Jewish religious scholar Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss, a spokesman for "Jews against Zionism", who believes that Israel as a state is not legitimate. He says that Zionism has created "rivers of blood" and he opposes the occupation of Palestine."

Hope to see this report later today on Aljazeera as I've only read a brief review. Comments from viewers are interesting.

Edit to add Weiss's comment.
There is a very vocal group of Israeli citizens who feel just as he does.  A rather small group, thankfully.  I certainly don't agree with him in his stance on Zionism but it is a sign of a healthy Democracy that he has such a platform and no limits on his speech.

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#3    SamDavies

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:10 AM

Well, having enjoyed the interview with Rabbi Weiss I read some of the articles on the Jews against Zionism website. During the interview he held up pictures of Israelis being beaten by police in Israel (as I said some weeks ago, many -and I do mean many- Israelis believe their government is a dictatorship it is NOT a democracy. But democracy comes in many colours and shades depending what agenda is on the table.) and also pictures of demonstrations in America against Zionism that, of course, the media did not report on. The articles on the website have some of the most desturbing information I have ever read regarding leaders of an organisation/country/society and their determination to sacrifice literally millions of lives of their own people for a mindless delusional cause. :no:  

Now unless members here can present information showing that the newspaper clipings and other info are a load of fabricated **** I will continue to fully agree with what Weiss and the Jews against Zionism are attempting to do and have said. Fortunately their numbers are growing.

For many years I've never understood why Israel had such apparent 'claims' to Palastine and why they used their so called allied countries to boulster them when they always claim they are the true people of God. Having studied the Bible things did not add up. Now I realise Zionism has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Jewish faith :hmm: .

Now if anyone wishes to still think the Israelis actions in Palastine are 'justified' and always have been, then each to our delusions. Unless of course someone can read the articles and then show where they are misrepresentations of history. Knowing how low humans have sunk regarding killing their own people I believe what is presented on the two websites until proven otherwise. There's an old website they are keeping and a new one. NEW WEBSITE  www.truetorahjews.org.

For those who bother to read some of the articles be warned that the info is VERY disturbing. For those who don't wish to read any of them in case their rose tinted view of the world and Israel is darkened in any way, well, your choice but I'll not be replying to any uneducated comments over or about the Jews against Zionism.

ANTI-SEMITISM http://jewsagainstzi...ismpromotes.cfm Zionism promotes anti-semitism


JEWISH WAR http://jewsagainstzi...war.cfm  That same spring of 1933 there began a period of private cooperation between the German government and the Zionist movement in Germany and worldwide to increase the flow of German-Jewish immigrants and capital to Palestine.

Growing anti-Semitism in Germany and by the German government in response to the boycott played into the hands of the Zionist leaders. Prior to the escalation of anti-Semitism as a result of the boycott the majority of German Jews had little sympathy for the Zionist cause of promoting the immigration of world Jewry to Palestine. Making the situation in Germany as uncomfortable for the Jews as possible, in cooperation with German National Socialism, was part of the Zionist plan to achieve their goal of populating Palestine with a Jewish majority.

"For all intents and purposes, the National Socialist government was the best thing to happen to Zionism in its history, for it "proved" to many Jews that Europeans were irredeemably anti-Jewish and that Palestine was the only answer:

Zionism came to represent the overwhelming majority of Jews solely by trickery and cooperation with Adolf Hitler." [1]


The Torah is our only constitution and there is nothing above it. As long as we Jews are in exile we ought to bow and be humble to all other nations of the world. Raise your heads and show the world. The “Kenesset” stand for just the contrary. They vigorously fight and don’t surrender to the Arabs. When the Arabs lived in Israel they were very good neighbors with Jewish population. By cooperating in the “sinful” elections or by being part of the “sinful Kenesset” itself you consent to the idea to fight and overthrow the Arabs. This is a terrible fault according to the Torah.  Until we are freed from our exile, we shall never own Israel but must patiently wait for our Messiah to come to us. He will give back this Holy Nation to the suffering Jews who owned it before the exile began. Then will be the grand time when Hashem-God will finally return to his rightful place and do right for those that did right to him and rightful punishment to those who did wrong to him.  http://jewsagainstzi...ections.cfm  ELECTIONS

If all Jews had the mindset of the Jews Against Zoinism there would be an immediate return of the land to the Arabs in the Palistinian region and a halt to all the unnecessary bloodshed, IMO :tu: . And that is more than a good thing. Shame it is all a bit late.

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Posted 14 March 2012 - 04:10 AM

{......sigh.......}
I am a proud Christian Zionist.  I believe the Jews have an inherent right to the land the world "gave" them.  What's more I think they are due and will possess much more of the land upon which their rabid neighbors sit.  They will possess it after they win the next war they are forced into.  They are God's chosen and His word will stand where they are concerned.  Those who try to interfere with this will find themselves in direct conflict with God.  Israel possess the land and will never, ever be removed from it again.
Have a fine day Sam...

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#5    SamDavies

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 06:57 PM

View Postand then, on 14 March 2012 - 04:10 AM, said:

{......sigh.......}
I am a proud Christian Zionist.  I believe the Jews have an inherent right to the land the world "gave" them.  What's more I think they are due and will possess much more of the land upon which their rabid neighbors sit.  They will possess it after they win the next war they are forced into.  They are God's chosen and His word will stand where they are concerned.  Those who try to interfere with this will find themselves in direct conflict with God.  Israel possess the land and will never, ever be removed from it again.
Have a fine day Sam...

Well, and then, where is the scriptures to back up your opinion that Israel will not only keep the land they stole but will actually get more land and destroy all the countries it believes to be it's enemies.

I ask you again (from another post), where is the scriptural backing? I only ask as you so addimently say you believe in the Bible's prophecies. But you so far have not backed up your conviction that Israel is all powerful as it has God's favour (no matter who they kill and no matter what they do). And that by extension Christian Zionists are also 'chosen ones' by association? :no:  I see this as misrepresenting what is written in the Bible. Jews against Zionism are applying the scriptures and are being loyal to their God. The government of 'Israel' is not and is misleading not only its own people, but also a gulible world who mostly have not bothered to read the Bible to find out where it says the nation of Israel is still God's chosen people. Hosea clearly shows this in NOT the case due to their disloyalty, which continues to this very day. And again, Daniel 11-12 which is relevent to the final days and the setting up of God's kingdom. No where does it mention Israel killing off all the nations you believe to be 'rabid' and taking more land.

Zionism is new. It has nothing to do with the original Jewish faith. This is what the Jews against Zionism is trying to get people to realise as Zionism is causing unnecessary hate toward Jews and their deaths along with other innocents. As I said, I was shocked over reading where and how Zionism came about and what it has done to deliberately kill Jews for a delusional agenda. If Zionism was God's new way I'd prefer to be dead if it meant living with a small group of individuals who will always think they are superior to all other races and nations. Thankfully it is not. A fact backed by the bible itself and by the few remaining loyal ones, such as the Jews against Zionism. Remember, God wanted to destroy the Israelites. He only refrained due to a convenant he had made and the begging of Mosses to remain faithful to that covenant.

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Posted 20 March 2012 - 11:30 PM

View PostSamDavies, on 20 March 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Well, and then, where is the scriptures to back up your opinion that Israel will not only keep the land they stole but will actually get more land and destroy all the countries it believes to be it's enemies.

I ask you again (from another post), where is the scriptural backing? I only ask as you so addimently say you believe in the Bible's prophecies. But you so far have not backed up your conviction that Israel is all powerful as it has God's favour (no matter who they kill and no matter what they do). And that by extension Christian Zionists are also 'chosen ones' by association? :no:  I see this as misrepresenting what is written in the Bible. Jews against Zionism are applying the scriptures and are being loyal to their God. The government of 'Israel' is not and is misleading not only its own people, but also a gulible world who mostly have not bothered to read the Bible to find out where it says the nation of Israel is still God's chosen people. Hosea clearly shows this in NOT the case due to their disloyalty, which continues to this very day. And again, Daniel 11-12 which is relevent to the final days and the setting up of God's kingdom. No where does it mention Israel killing off all the nations you believe to be 'rabid' and taking more land.

Zionism is new. It has nothing to do with the original Jewish faith. This is what the Jews against Zionism is trying to get people to realise as Zionism is causing unnecessary hate toward Jews and their deaths along with other innocents. As I said, I was shocked over reading where and how Zionism came about and what it has done to deliberately kill Jews for a delusional agenda. If Zionism was God's new way I'd prefer to be dead if it meant living with a small group of individuals who will always think they are superior to all other races and nations. Thankfully it is not. A fact backed by the bible itself and by the few remaining loyal ones, such as the Jews against Zionism. Remember, God wanted to destroy the Israelites. He only refrained due to a convenant he had made and the begging of Mosses to remain faithful to that covenant.

The contract between God and Abraham was eternal.  Genesis 15: 9-17 gives the borders.  If you read this you will see that this includes MUCH more land than the current State rests on.  If you reject that it is not a rejection of my words but God's.  Israel as a people or a nation State is NOT superior to any other peoples or nations.  I have never argued such to be the case.  I have said they are God's chosen people because I believe the Holy Bible and what it says of them.  They have sinned against their God over and over throughout history and have been punished over and over for their sin.  But NEVER forsaken totally.  His promise still stands.  The war I refer to is found in Psalm 83.  The countries I listed are all included there.  There is another war spoken of in scripture in Ezekiel 38/39 that lists the enemies to attack Israel and NONE of the countries listed in psalm 83 are repeated in this list even though they are the countries and peoples which share a border with the modern State.
The God I worship and who's word I believe in has said that He will destroy the enemies of Israel as a way of showing His power and Glory to the nations of the world (Ezekiel 38/39)  He also says that He will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse her.  I believe that.  And if Weiss is correct then who exactly is God saying he will bless or curse?  If Israel is not to be regathered to her land and become a nation - as scripture predicts - then how can God bless or curse those who would come against them?  I don't spend a lot of time in arguments about Bible scriptures because I am no scholar or Bible "lawyer".  If you feel that disqualifies me from speaking my opinions then ignore them.  You seem to have a problem with the State of Israel existing at all.  That's your prerogative and I say be content in your position but know that if you are wrong you are facing judgement for it.  
While you are espousing this Jew's opinions against his own government as though they were proof God has abandoned her, does it not seem even a little curious to you that all the events foretold in Psalm 83 are falling into place for fulfillment? Or are you another here who will not believe even when the event actually transpires?  I have made my choice, as have you apparently.  I think we may both live long enough to see who was correct.

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#7    and then

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 05:39 AM

View PostSamDavies, on 20 March 2012 - 06:57 PM, said:

Well, and then, where is the scriptures to back up your opinion that Israel will not only keep the land they stole but will actually get more land and destroy all the countries it believes to be it's enemies.

I ask you again (from another post), where is the scriptural backing? I only ask as you so addimently say you believe in the Bible's prophecies. But you so far have not backed up your conviction that Israel is all powerful as it has God's favour (no matter who they kill and no matter what they do). And that by extension Christian Zionists are also 'chosen ones' by association? :no:  I see this as misrepresenting what is written in the Bible. Jews against Zionism are applying the scriptures and are being loyal to their God. The government of 'Israel' is not and is misleading not only its own people, but also a gulible world who mostly have not bothered to read the Bible to find out where it says the nation of Israel is still God's chosen people. Hosea clearly shows this in NOT the case due to their disloyalty, which continues to this very day. And again, Daniel 11-12 which is relevent to the final days and the setting up of God's kingdom. No where does it mention Israel killing off all the nations you believe to be 'rabid' and taking more land.

Zionism is new. It has nothing to do with the original Jewish faith. This is what the Jews against Zionism is trying to get people to realise as Zionism is causing unnecessary hate toward Jews and their deaths along with other innocents. As I said, I was shocked over reading where and how Zionism came about and what it has done to deliberately kill Jews for a delusional agenda. If Zionism was God's new way I'd prefer to be dead if it meant living with a small group of individuals who will always think they are superior to all other races and nations. Thankfully it is not. A fact backed by the bible itself and by the few remaining loyal ones, such as the Jews against Zionism. Remember, God wanted to destroy the Israelites. He only refrained due to a convenant he had made and the begging of Mosses to remain faithful to that covenant.
God says in His word EZ 25:13-17 and Obadiah 1:18 that He will render judgement on Esau so that none remain...NONE...and Esau are the "Palestinians", the Hamas and Hizballah.  Weiss is an abomination to his own people.  He probably condones the actions that recently took place in France since Merah was fighting against "Zionism".  Sam, you're on the wrong side in this fight.  I pray that you'll find wisdom.

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#8    odas

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:24 PM

So, is it like we have no choice but kissing Israels butt or we die? And that is completely a different aproach as to any radical thought? Some people do not even realize how disturbingly radical they are. Scarry world I tell ya.


#9    wittyusernamefailed

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 04:52 PM

Well as seeing according to all those prophecies acceptance of the Messiah is a prerequisite for truly possessing the promised land; the argument could be raised that the 1947 return of Israel to the land was done by the power of man and not Jehovah, and is thus invalid in regards to end time prophecy. Which in essence nullifies almost all argument for the blind agreement of Israel, and even that Israel as it has been established since 1947 could fall without God being a liar.

The blind acceptence of Israel in it's current iteration as being the Israel of Endtimes, is a intense desire in the minds of many individuals for the end of the world, and the establishment of a Millennial reign of Christ. They seem to ignore the fact that the whole endtimes gig (as put forth in the Bible); is basically Gods Hammerfall protocle for when the believers fail epically. To the point that the whole world is described as being like Sodom without even 10 righteous. Not exactly something to be hoping to happen tomorrow.


#10    and then

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Posted 23 March 2012 - 09:42 PM

View Postodas, on 23 March 2012 - 04:24 PM, said:

So, is it like we have no choice but kissing Israels butt or we die? And that is completely a different aproach as to any radical thought? Some people do not even realize how disturbingly radical they are. Scarry world I tell ya.

Thank you for being polite ;)   And no, I'm not talking about the nations of the world having to march lockstep with whatever nonsense Israel's secular government may try to dictate.  It's not all black and white.  What I AM saying is that the situation is just the opposite of what you describe.  The vast majority of the nations would gladly vote to give most or even all of the land Israel now sits on (about the size of the State of New Jersy)to the Palestinians.  The Palestinians hate Jews and have vowed to kill them to a soul.  How is this a reasonable plan?  What madness is it that makes one group of humans expect another group to simply give up their right to exist in the world.  ESPECIALLY when they have decided to survive at all costs and have armed themselves with nukes?  Leaving aside for the moment my understanding of scripture which I readily admit could be flawed, can't you see the irrationality of the situation?  The Jews in Israel are being pushed into an ever smaller corner by the world.  The  pressure is constant in the form of threats and arming of their enemies.  The ultimate goals of the Arab nations and Israel are incompatible and at some point this is all going to come to a denouement.  My belief is that these nations and non state actors will attack and Israel will defeat them all.  Maybe by using a nuke or two. The world gets left in a much more unstable place and it's only a brief interlude before the next war.  Completely reasonable assumptions on my part considering the situation as it is developing on the ground there.  
As to WUNF's point I agree that their inheritance was predicated on obedience which they haven't shown up until now.  But God made an UNBREAKABLE promise that they would possess the land.  He cannot go back on His word.  THAT is the one thing He cannot do.  They have been punished multiple times down the centuries for their disobedience and will face a final very harsh judgement according to Zecharia 13:8.  Two thirds will perish before a remnant is allowed to possess the land in peace forever.  Even at today's census that's about 4 million in Israel alone.  
Odas you are right.  It is scary - damned - scary.  But not because a small handful of "fundys" like myself are talking about what they believe is coming.  It's scary because so many people all over the world are finally beginning to twig to the notion that as a species we are capable of ending ourselves due to hatred and violence and someone gave us a gameplan a very long time ago describing pretty damned accurately how it all would unfold.  Being forced by common sense to believe what you do not want to believe can be scary.

Edited for spelling

Edited by and then, 23 March 2012 - 09:45 PM.

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#11    seller2006

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:35 PM

Zionist, most subtle form of racial supremacy, all forms of ZIONISM is racial superemacy , but its only ok for the Jewish community? My bad there are many Jewish groups against Zionism, and war on Israel ,  i would love to hear that person's opinion. Anyway the PALESTENIANS were were living there for centuries and centuries, it MATTERS NOT what a book says, by that logic you should listen to Hindu claims ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc. The world would be in DISARRAY.ISRAEL existed with 12-13 tribes, not just the Jewish people .... i am sick of tired of pro Israeli posts and propaganda, especially by a christian zionist ( two labels doesnt means its any better). Just sounds like your a christian siding with the Jews to hate MUSLIMS, just like the old times :) . Its only a matter of time, and i repeat this. Israel will not last as a country, far to my instablity in the region, in the coming days the land is going no be reclaim and that scripture of yours will be completely proven wrong, like the other thousands of times. Good luck in your racist endeavors tho.

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 01:54 PM

View Postseller2006, on 19 April 2012 - 01:35 PM, said:

Zionist, most subtle form of racial supremacy, all forms of ZIONISM is racial superemacy , but its only ok for the Jewish community? My bad there are many Jewish groups against Zionism, and war on Israel ,  i would love to hear that person's opinion. Anyway the PALESTENIANS were were living there for centuries and centuries, it MATTERS NOT what a book says, by that logic you should listen to Hindu claims ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc ,etc. The world would be in DISARRAY.ISRAEL existed with 12-13 tribes, not just the Jewish people .... i am sick of tired of pro Israeli posts and propaganda, especially by a christian zionist ( two labels doesnt means its any better). Just sounds like your a christian siding with the Jews to hate MUSLIMS, just like the old times :) . Its only a matter of time, and i repeat this. Israel will not last as a country, far to my instablity in the region, in the coming days the land is going no be reclaim and that scripture of yours will be completely proven wrong, like the other thousands of times. Good luck in your racist endeavors tho.
Young man I truly believe if you live long enough you will see that you are in error.  And I don't hate Muslims, just don't want to be told by them or any other person who to worship or how to live.  You are completely in your rights to disbelieve the Bible.  If Jews feel they are superior then they are in error.  They are no better than any of the rest of us.  The fact that they are God's chosen isn't due to anything special that they did.  It was His choice - to use one group of people to show the rest of us what happens when we disobey and what happens when we come back in repentance, which they will in the future.  And not only will Israel last,  they will prosper and expand the boundaries of their homeland.  And those who hate them will not prosper.  Not my words, you can read them for yourself if you choose.  You'll find it in Genesis.  I post things that I believe in an overall civil manner.  Sometimes I get a little agitated and rude but that's because I'm human too.  Civility is important in a place like this, it's the only way to have dialogue.  I think we learn the most from those we disagree with.

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#13    seller2006

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 02:01 PM

View Postand then, on 19 April 2012 - 01:54 PM, said:

Young man I truly believe if you live long enough you will see that you are in error.  And I don't hate Muslims, just don't want to be told by them or any other person who to worship or how to live.  You are completely in your rights to disbelieve the Bible.  If Jews feel they are superior then they are in error.  They are no better than any of the rest of us.  The fact that they are God's chosen isn't due to anything special that they did.  It was His choice - to use one group of people to show the rest of us what happens when we disobey and what happens when we come back in repentance, which they will in the future.  And not only will Israel last,  they will prosper and expand the boundaries of their homeland.  And those who hate them will not prosper.  Not my words, you can read them for yourself if you choose.  You'll find it in Genesis.  I post things that I believe in an overall civil manner.  Sometimes I get a little agitated and rude but that's because I'm human too.  Civility is important in a place like this, it's the only way to have dialogue.  I think we learn the most from those we disagree with.
I am disbelieving it, its proven wrong lol. Whereas your believing it blindly, ignorantly. You really don't see the irony in your posts do you? so be it, there are many things you cant see, unfortunately we cant show the blind what is ahead of them, only try to describe.

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#14    and then

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:17 PM

View Postseller2006, on 19 April 2012 - 02:01 PM, said:

I am disbelieving it, its proven wrong lol. Whereas your believing it blindly, ignorantly. You really don't see the irony in your posts do you? so be it, there are many things you cant see, unfortunately we cant show the blind what is ahead of them, only try to describe.
If you really consider it trying to help then thanks.  I believe what I believe and I'm quite comfortable with it.  My beliefs harm no one.  And my words influence no one.

  We've cast the world, we've set the stage,
  for what could be, the darkest age...
“This is like playing poker with a guy who cheated you twice before. You know who does that, a moron.

#15    SolarPlexus

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:54 PM

Interesting. Will take a while to go through all this info you posted though. Cheers.

"In questions of science, the authority of a thousand is not worth the humble reasoning of a single individual."
Galileo Galilei
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