JW Parent's Refuse Life Saving Operation

[psyche101]

A Jehovah’s Witness couple have become embroiled in a Supreme Court battle over their refusal to allow a Brisbane hospital to give their young son a blood transfusion.

Their son, “J”, has a severe liver disease and doctors have said he will die from liver failure without a transplant, News Corp has reported.

He suffers from portal hypertension and a genetic condition which can cause issues for multiple organs.

http://www.9news.com...ood-transfusion

Parent's of the child feel a blood transfusion will corrupt the boy morally and spiritually.

In this day and age

and

In a Western Society with all the benefits of education and access to real world information.

This is a dead set joke, and I wish the Doctors all the best. I hope it sets a precedent and allows medicine to remove such unfit partners. These clowns are poster children for religious idiocy. The silver lining in this dark cloud.

Yet you have to get a license to drive a car.

Crazy isn't it.

We need religion like we need a hole in the head.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Saru
Switched article source due to payment wall

[Sir Wearer of Hats]

Call DOCS.

[toast]

Its not just the JW rules that are grazy and weird here, its more grazy and weird that such rules as shown are respected and

tolerated in execution by the local jurisdictions globally. The prohibition of a blood transfusion for a kid due to religious reasons

must be judged as to be a ritualistic oblation, resulting into a likelihood for the death of an individual. Outside this religion, the

refusal of a blood transfusion for another person in case of need to safe an individuals life is judged as to be a non-assistance

of a person in danger, and so subject to prosecution and conviction. It might be a different story if an adult refuse to get a blood

transfusion, because s/he is free in its decision but there is no room for any kind of discussions if an underaged person is

involved.

The acceptance and the toleration of religions is an attainment of the modern world and based on high ethical standards. But

each time these ethical standards get ignored and/or exeeded by a religion, a red line has been crossed and the specific religions

rules must be limited back to these standards, without any exceptions and concessions.

I cross my fingers that the court will decide to the benefit of the little boy. If it will not, the court itself will have full responsibility for

the health of the boy and as to be guilty in case the boy will not survive due to not given blood transfusions.

[ChrLzs]

It's a difficult topic, and I blame not so much religion, but the 'elder statespersons' and leaders of the religions, who, in the face of relatively simple and easy to understand science, still demand their flocks remain true to the faith. I once had a JW girlfriend (yes, really), and apart from being a lovely and sensible woman, she had an extraordinary strong faith in her religion. We discussed this very topic more than a few times (!), and she maintained that as it was part of her culture and upbringing, even though she may see the logic, she too would die before she would have a transfusion.

I am absolutely certain that if there was an edict from the JW church leaders, she would have happily relented.

It's a bit like the old story (or is it a partial myth..?) of the extreme embarrassment the church felt at their church spires being the prime target for lightning... until they actually listened to science and put up lightning rods... You'd think the life of a child was a little more important than a church spire, but there you go.....

[Bendy Demon]

I am surprised the parents allowed the operation itself. Just plain common sense should tell a person that a major surgery is going to be accompanied by major blood loss and artificial plasma probably won't cut it either.

It's like watching your kid walk through a beast infested forest and the last few steps require him to use a bridge in order to get out safely and you refuse to let him because it "goes against your religion" even though his immediate survival depends on it.

(Ok..I stink at analogies..)

Religious objections can only go so far before it enters the realm of the absolutely mind-fornicated idiocy.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

I'm with you Psyche, on your irony. On the whole irony in fact. I'm furious at all this. I really really really hope that someone does step in and get the boy the needed medical help. I myself, wish there was a license to fill out to have kids. From what I see on a daily basis on how some parents treat their kids in where I work, I really would like to insist on it. We use to have to get a blood test to get married, and then we still have to get a marriage license, but having kids when you feel like it and think you're qualified, I don't get it. And of course, I see it in some religions, and others, who pressure individuals to marry and have children when they are no ready, but do not help with it, that gets me too. I sometimes can understand when some individuals step in, and think I need help when my kids were small, (usually other parents, some non-parents have done that, and they have no clue...but I digress) and I sometimes think, I'm glad they care. Should we consider how we need to have an outcry in each country to ensure our children's safety? :no:

[BiffSplitkins]

If I were hospital administration I would tell the parent "No blood transfusion (if needed), no operation."

That's like throwing a chance at life for two people away due to the fact that the liver could possibly go to someone else who would have a better shot at a successful transplant all because of a religious belief.

[psyche101]

Call DOCS.

Crikey, even less action would be taken. They only know how to prey on weak cases, something like this would totally bewilder the morons I have dealt with at DOCS.

My stepdaughter ran away with her father one school holiday and was living in a house with a convicted peadophile. The father said she sleeps with his sister at another residence and DOCS went, OK, case closed.

Freaking morons.

Edited June 16, 2015 by psyche101

[psyche101]

It's a difficult topic, and I blame not so much religion, but the 'elder statespersons' and leaders of the religions, who, in the face of relatively simple and easy to understand science, still demand their flocks remain true to the faith. I once had a JW girlfriend (yes, really), and apart from being a lovely and sensible woman, she had an extraordinary strong faith in her religion. We discussed this very topic more than a few times (!), and she maintained that as it was part of her culture and upbringing, even though she may see the logic, she too would die before she would have a transfusion.

I am absolutely certain that if there was an edict from the JW church leaders, she would have happily relented.

It's a bit like the old story (or is it a partial myth..?) of the extreme embarrassment the church felt at their church spires being the prime target for lightning... until they actually listened to science and put up lightning rods... You'd think the life of a child was a little more important than a church spire, but there you go.....

I have to come clean, I have a chip on my shoulder regarding JW's. They broke up my parents marriage because my Father refused to convert from Catholic. I have no respect for the JW religion, or religion at all anymore. I did end up embracing the Catholic Faith, but after my father passed, I asked the questions that would have offended him and ended up atheist.

My mother said we children would not get blood transfusion either, I remember her making a point of it and I remember it well. I am pretty happy today that I did not need one in those tender early years. She sure as heck did not give my poor Dad a second thought, an imaginary being came first. And she was pressured by Church Elders to leave him. I honestly believe that she would have let her child die for that same imaginary being.

I know the average person who attends the church is not all bad, I have even allowed some into my house Which is why I blame the religion. Good people doing bad things, thinking they are helping.

I guess before atheism, this sort of behaviour might well have created Satanists???

I wonder how many kids have already died for this insane belief?

Edited June 16, 2015 by psyche101

[psyche101]

I am surprised the parents allowed the operation itself. Just plain common sense should tell a person that a major surgery is going to be accompanied by major blood loss and artificial plasma probably won't cut it either.

It's like watching your kid walk through a beast infested forest and the last few steps require him to use a bridge in order to get out safely and you refuse to let him because it "goes against your religion" even though his immediate survival depends on it.

(Ok..I stink at analogies..)

Religious objections can only go so far before it enters the realm of the absolutely mind-fornicated idiocy.

Your analogy works for me

[psyche101]

I'm with you Psyche, on your irony. On the whole irony in fact. I'm furious at all this. I really really really hope that someone does step in and get the boy the needed medical help. I myself, wish there was a license to fill out to have kids. From what I see on a daily basis on how some parents treat their kids in where I work, I really would like to insist on it. We use to have to get a blood test to get married, and then we still have to get a marriage license, but having kids when you feel like it and think you're qualified, I don't get it. And of course, I see it in some religions, and others, who pressure individuals to marry and have children when they are no ready, but do not help with it, that gets me too. I sometimes can understand when some individuals step in, and think I need help when my kids were small, (usually other parents, some non-parents have done that, and they have no clue...but I digress) and I sometimes think, I'm glad they care. Should we consider how we need to have an outcry in each country to ensure our children's safety? :no:

Well said Stubbly. Could not agree more. I hope this sets a court precedent to stop this from happening ever again.

It strikes me that Doctors seems to be modern day saints. Especially so in this case. It will not only save this boy's life, but set a precedent that will save others. I hope public outcry is not necessary, these people really ought to be doubly ashamed of themselves. If they ever have the common sense to look past religion, I think they would be horrified at what they are considering.

[psyche101]

If I were hospital administration I would tell the parent "No blood transfusion (if needed), no operation."

That's like throwing a chance at life for two people away due to the fact that the liver could possibly go to someone else who would have a better shot at a successful transplant all because of a religious belief.

I like that. Brilliant. I hope Doctors are doing this already. Screw the parents rights to appease an imaginary being.

[Stubbly_Dooright]

Well said Stubbly. Could not agree more. I hope this sets a court precedent to stop this from happening ever again.

It strikes me that Doctors seems to be modern day saints. Especially so in this case. It will not only save this boy's life, but set a precedent that will save others. I hope public outcry is not necessary, these people really ought to be doubly ashamed of themselves. If they ever have the common sense to look past religion, I think they would be horrified at what they are considering.

I really think there should be thoughts on laws to be changed dealing with raising kids, you would be in trouble if you are in any way endangering your child within this context. There are in others.

Now, there maybe a line afraid to cross here, because it might be a problem where some would cry not able to freely practice their religion, (like the context of those who want to freely discriminate others here by using their religion) But again, I don't understand how some parts of religion has 'rules' that hurt others and endanger themselves. I don't get that (consider that coming from the secular raised part of me) I really wonder of those in orthodox religions who honestly love their children would adhere, or even take seriously their religion one hundred percent. I have met, known, and befriended tons of various religious parents who would ignore all of those 'edicts' when it comes to preserving the lives and happiness of their children. Unfortunately, not all parents have that care.

I also think we need to be careful it doesn't go crazy the other way, and children are kept from their parents for crazy reasons that hurt the parents and their children. The case of the girl who was kept from her parents because of the arguing of the girl's condition, I thought it was ridiculous of how she was kept from her parents. The parents obviously care, but at least have a more common sense of coming to a conclusion here: http://foxct.com/2013/11/19/hospital-holds-west-hartford-girl-for-9-months-after-parents-argue-diagnosis/

Just a little point I wanted to make, but I think there should be common sense in when parents consider in having children. Yeah, a bit big brother, but then again, I notice some religions have no problem wanting to be big brother on your intimate and personal life and expect you live it according to their will.

[GlitterRose]

If only people would actually try to understand their religious texts in context. The bit about not consuming blood has to do with Kosher slaughter. Ugh...it makes you just want to smack people upside the head.

There's nothing about blood transfusions in the bible, because...news flash...they didn't have them back then.

Edited June 16, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Golden Duck]

"Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar"

I've always interpreted this as it's fine to have faith; but you still have to live in the real world.

[Astra.]

Update - the courts have over ruled the parents ridiculous religious beliefs - and have ordered the blood transfusion to go ahead.

Great news for that little boy

[psyche101]

Update - the courts have over ruled the parents ridiculous religious beliefs - and have ordered the blood transfusion to go ahead.

Great news for that little boy

Nice one Astra

That is a win for progress and the species as a whole!!

Too many kids die from JW Blood transfusion refusals, I tried to keep an eye out on this, but didn't see the headline, and in the meantime learned of a 17 year old boy in NSW and a 4 year old girl in SA with the same obstacle. Considering JW's let people die for no good reason at all, their position should be reassessed by a board. I think they could be deemed a cult as opposed to a religion, and with the fatal practises they employ, should be outlawed. It truly saddens me that in this day and age that people would put their own child's life in the hands of an imaginary being, that is not faith, that is sick.

I reckon this is the best Debbie Harry song ever :D

Edited June 25, 2015 by psyche101

[jules99]

Will the family and church accept the kid back and not treat him like a pariah? Maybe he will have to be placed with another family with a different religious faith after the transfusion.

[GlitterRose]

Will the family and church accept the kid back and not treat him like a pariah? Maybe he will have to be placed with another family with a different religious faith after the transfusion.

That's an interesting question.

[GlitterRose]

Nice one Astra

That is a win for progress and the species as a whole!!

Too many kids die from JW Blood transfusion refusals, I tried to keep an eye out on this, but didn't see the headline, and in the meantime learned of a 17 year old boy in NSW and a 4 year old girl in SA with the same obstacle. Considering JW's let people die for no good reason at all, their position should be reassessed by a board. I think they could be deemed a cult as opposed to a religion, and with the fatal practises they employ, should be outlawed. It truly saddens me that in this day and age that people would put their own child's life in the hands of an imaginary being, that is not faith, that is sick.

I reckon this is the best Debbie Harry song ever :D

Well, you can't really outlaw any religion. Is it a cult? I guess as much as Catholicism is. They think a woman ought to die rather than get fixed. All religions have their oddity about them, but the bottom line is...what adults choose for themselves is one thing. What they choose for their children is another thing, entirely. And no, they don't have the right to decide that their child should die rather than get a blood transfusion...even if it is because they think the invisible man in the sky will let him into heaven.

Edited June 25, 2015 by ChaosRose

[Astra.]

Will the family and church accept the kid back and not treat him like a pariah? Maybe he will have to be placed with another family with a different religious faith after the transfusion.

Yeah - that crossed my mind as well.

Since the little guy is now "contaminated" with other blood - as these religious nuts believe.

I wonder how he will be treated by the parents and the church alike - once he is well again ?

Surely the courts, hospital and child welfare agenencies would be aware of the possible negative attitude/fallout from this.

At the end of the day - all that matters is the childs health and future well being.

@ Edit to add - I do not believe that every religious person is a nut - thought I'd make that clear.

I simply feel that a belief like JW's have in these type of cases - is simply beyond comprehension and understanding.

Edited June 25, 2015 by Astra-

[psyche101]

Will the family and church accept the kid back and not treat him like a pariah? Maybe he will have to be placed with another family with a different religious faith after the transfusion.

I do not think so, he was forced by others who are tainted by Satan to live, so I guess they would more likely consider him a victim, had he gone ahead of his own choice, then I am sure he would be shunned. As it is, everyone will just pray for his sin I suspect, and hope he can receive forgiveness for having his life saved for him.

[psyche101]

Well, you can't really outlaw any religion. Is it a cult? I guess as much as Catholicism is. They think a woman ought to die rather than get fixed. All religions have their oddity about them, but the bottom line is...what adults choose for themselves is one thing. What they choose for their children is another thing, entirely. And no, they don't have the right to decide that their child should die rather than get a blood transfusion...even if it is because they think the invisible man in the sky will let him into heaven.

Funny thing is many Christians do not perceive them as "Christian" but more of a cult, so seems to be the general feeling here. If Christians as a whole seem to think they are a cult, perhaps it should be re-evaluated, in my opinion, they all are cults to an extent, Catholicism included. I guess that depends on personal interpretation of the definition. Scientology is most certainly not a religion by any means, either is that vile horrid Cult the Raelians, but they proclaim themselves a religion and enjoy the tax exempt status. Raelism is nothing but a sex cult that has some very dodgy practises, enough to get their leader Claude Vorilhon banned in some countries for his liberal views on child sex.

Many people are abusing religion both in a personal and financial sense, it is used for sex, money and all sort of grubby underhanded things it is supposed, to guard against. It would be refreshing to see public support to scrutinise religion, instead of always giving it a get out of jail card. This I hope to find a precedent to show religion is not the be all end all purpose to one's existence, and what damage that mindset can do to people and their families.

I expect one day religion will be gone, and the modern Gods will take their places next to the Greek and Roman Gods in the halls of Myth. It's just a matter of education. The term Atheist will become redundant, like AFairists or ALeprechaunists. If we do not take that path, I feel mankind is just letting itself down.

Edited June 26, 2015 by psyche101