82 replies to this topic

[Old Man Waffles]

the hell is wrong with people?????!

[bulveye]

DKO, on 08 May 2012 - 10:54 AM, said:

Alexander Aan, an Indonesian civil servant who is currently in custody and facing an 11-year prison sentence for expressing his atheism on Facebook.

http://refreshingnews99.blogspot.in/2012/05/indonesian-atheist-faces-long-jail.html



Like when the Muslims bombed Bali? Twice.

Or the Crusades!

[DKO]

Here's a updated and longer version of the situation.

http://www.guardian....ous-freedom-aan

[dougeaton]

Hmmmmm perhaps they should do that here....put atheist in prison.  Things would be a lot more quiet around the web.....it would be nice if Dawkins could be put in solitary, away from any kind of communication....ahhh that would be heaven......well I don't believe in heaven but it could start here.

Ok just joking........I don't hate atheist as much as I pretend to, but I don't like them very much either....well maybe one or two, the rest are just angry about everything.....just my experience so I am sure there are a few out there who are decent, normal human beings ......just a few though .  As long as they stay out of politcs, then let them be.....can't imagine how an atheist could represent normal people....the ones I know seem to have aspergers pretty bad .....which I have heard afflics many....than anwers a lot of questions why so many of them whine so much   when they are not angry .  Well most of them are liberals after all.  Actually, fundie believer and village atheist dance together a lot......yawn!!!! boring....I know I am boring as well, get over it ;-).

Actually I could be joking about the above, or not, you decide .

Edited by dougeaton, 21 May 2012 - 12:17 PM.

[Mr Right Wing]

Purifier, on 08 May 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

Read in the article he got attacked by a mob, as well.

I'm not an Atheist, but even I know this is all wrong. Humanity is turning into uncivilized A-holes.

NOT GOOD!

Different culture, different way of life.

[dougeaton]

Mr Right Wing, on 21 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Different culture, different way of life.

All joking aside, he should have known better.  In the USA and other secular countries we can say what we want and no problem, but if I lived in a country that is tightly controlled, well I would be very careful....on facebook....kind of dumb....but I am sorry for him actually.  People should have freedom to believe what they want, or percieve to be true, you can't control anyone....what is the saying, you can't herd cats or people.

doug

[Mr Right Wing]

dougeaton, on 21 May 2012 - 12:40 PM, said:

All joking aside, he should have known better.  In the USA and other secular countries we can say what we want and no problem, but if I lived in a country that is tightly controlled, well I would be very careful....on facebook....kind of dumb....but I am sorry for him actually.  People should have freedom to believe what they want, or percieve to be true, you can't control anyone....what is the saying, you can't herd cats or people.

doug

Every nation has its own laws and culture which its citizens need to follow. If the guy breaks the laws or social norms in his country (as he has) he deserves what he gets.

If I live in England and drive up the motorway at 120 kph, go into a gay bar wearing a sign saying 'I hate gays' or decide to have a 15 year old girlfriend I expect to get arrested. I cant use the speed limits on the Autobahn, the age of consent in Spain or the anti-homosexuality polices of Iran as a defence. Claiming my freedom is being violated in such cases is nonsense.

Its also wrong for a German, Spanish or Iranian citizen to criticise the laws in England.

Edited by Mr Right Wing, 21 May 2012 - 12:57 PM.

[Purifier]

ShadowSot, on 21 May 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Actually continual studies show that the rates of violence have steadily decreased as we move from historical and pre-historical times, even counting the wars of the last couple of centuries. Now this is talking percentage wise related to population, you do have some increase due to population.
  Steven Pinker has a good book on this, actually.
Unfortunately, violence is a really cheap news story so we certainly hear about it more.
  

This (your words in bold) seems to be the most plausible reason to me. But on the other hand, it would make sense that as the population increases you get a little more rise in violent activity. Human nature I guess.

[Purifier]

Mr Right Wing, on 21 May 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

Different culture, different way of life.

True! But I was speaking in a moral sense, in reference to the golden rule.

[Mr Right Wing]

Purifier, on 21 May 2012 - 01:21 PM, said:

True! But I was speaking in a moral sense, in reference to the golden rule.

But its according to your ideas about morality not that of the nation in question.

[Purifier]

Mr Right Wing, on 21 May 2012 - 01:31 PM, said:

But its according to your ideas about morality not that of the nation in question.

Not sure what your trying to do here, turn this into a philosophical debate or really a political debate. Either way, I'm sorry, I just don't have the time to devote to that right now, but maybe later. Plus...you might get better results in one of the other forum sections, like: U.S.A. -->U.S. Politics. If you were to start a thread about this particular subject in that forum section.

Anyway, just a suggestion for ya.


Cheers
Mr Right Wing

[Mr Right Wing]

Purifier, on 21 May 2012 - 02:48 PM, said:

Not sure what your trying to do here, turn this into a philosophical debate or really a political debate. Either way, I'm sorry, I just don't have the time to devote to that right now, but maybe later. Plus...you might get better results in one of the other forum sections, like: U.S.A. -->U.S. Politics. If you were to start a thread about this particular subject in that forum section.

America is not a perfect country

It is riddled with financial corruption, political corruption, human rights violations, social problems, inequalities, etc. It might not be apparent to you as you watch a tramp eating out of a bin or underage girl pushing a pram down the street that America has problems but dont expect people in other countries to blind themselves to the flaws of Liberal Democracy.

People are not perfect

Perfect people can live in a free society without causing problems. However in reality there are a lot of people out there riddled with corruption, greed, deviant behaviour, irresponsibility, narcissism, etc. Thats why the extra freedom that people are given in a Liberal Democracy also gives you the broken society you have.

People in other countries down want Americas ideology just like you dont want theres. You look at their flaws they look at yours.

[ShadowSot]

Dougeaton, after my personal experience of dealing with religious types such as yourself, while I do not wish yourself to be put into say a camp or some form of isolation simply due to my disagreement of your views, I do feel strongly relieved that I am seperated from you by some distance and can feel some justification in the belief you will not achieve any great political power.

  As far as different cultures are concerned, I feel there is a point where you don't get to just sit aside and let something off as just part of the culture.

[Uncle Sam]

ShadowSot, on 21 May 2012 - 08:04 AM, said:

Actually continual studies show that the rates of violence have steadily decreased as we move from historical and pre-historical times, even counting the wars of the last couple of centuries. Now this is talking percentage wise related to population, you do have some increase due to population.
  Steven Pinker has a good book on this, actually.
Unfortunately, violence is a really cheap news story so we certainly hear about it more.

  As for those decrying the evil of Islam, itself, remember that one of the most famous evil men was a proud Christian. The fault does not rest on the religion, though the religion can provide the needed excuses.

EXACTLY! I try to explain this to everyone, it provides excuses and ways to control people. It allows for people to emotionally and mentally controlled by rewards given to them after death for following scriptures written back since the beginning of time out of ignorance and knowledge about the world around them. I rather be an Atheist and understand the world around, to help better the world and create a more positive life than to be stuck in medieval scriptures that involve burning or stoning people who doesn't agree or convert.

[unit]

doug, you're so close to the mark back there it isn't funny.. or maybe it is

Quote

I rather be an Atheist and understand the world around,

i agree with what you said about 'controlling them in the afterlife' (paraphrased) but how a "godless" (ie: meaningless) view of the world brings you (and any so called athiest) any understanding is beyond me....???? i'd be so happy if you were to reply 100 pages of info for me on that, really..

..if there is no God.. no afterlife..(NO MEANING) why do you even bother to try to make the world a better place? why aren't you robbing banks and sexually terrorising geriatrics right this minute?

Edited by unit, 31 May 2012 - 08:23 PM.