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Widen the goal in the search for alien life

charley lineweaver alien

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#16    nephilim12

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 06:12 AM

A very healthy discourse and exchange of ideas. I'm loving it :)
Yep, if they wanted to take over, they'd have done it long ago.
But as some say, why ET ? Why any particular interest in our world ?
Suppose all the UFOs depicted were to have been of earthly origin all along ?
Now this is scarier. It means there is another alternative race ( caucasoid, mongoloid or negroid in appearance) having access to superior flight capabilities implying more advanced technology, mingling with us freely while maintaining that distinctive distance and secrecy between themselves.
Ahhhh forget it, just wild speculation on my part.
Well, time will tell what many religions speak about, famously coined as 'judgement day.'
I would take that as the day of revelation of who we are and where we stand in this puny world somewhere in the vast and infinite universe.


#17    psyche101

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:14 AM

I am thinking this bloke is after his 15 minutes. I am a bit shocked that a level headed Aussie would take such a new age approach.

He is calling hurricanes and stars alive, a star is a chemical reaction isn't it? And a hurricane is a temperature inversion isn't it? And I cannot see that his approach will lead to any discovery, just a great deal of renaming. He just seems to want to get his name into a book, I am a bit bewildered as to what is being accomplished here?

What is  this all about?

Many biologists define life as anything that undergoes Darwinian evolution.
We pretend that makes sense, but if you look it makes no sense at all. What is the unit of Darwinian evolution? Is it the gene? Is it the cell? Is it a multicellular organism? Is a city evolving? How about Gaia? Is that a life form?


A Unit? I think this guy is a unit. A gene is a stretch of DNA isn't it? And Isn't DNA something of a Darwinian marker? Gaia? WTF is he on about?

Maybe his genius is beyond me, hopefully someone can help me out here, LOL I am looking at you Badeskov my saviour in science! :D Am I looking at this the wrong way mate?

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#18    lost_shaman

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 08:26 AM

View Postpsyche101, on 30 May 2012 - 08:14 AM, said:


A Unit? I think this guy is a unit. A gene is a stretch of DNA isn't it? And Isn't DNA something of a Darwinian marker? Gaia? WTF is he on about?

Maybe his genius is beyond me, hopefully someone can help me out here, LOL I am looking at you Badeskov my saviour in science! :D Am I looking at this the wrong way mate?

Hey psyche,

Couldn't agree more. Darwin's theory of evolution in a nutshell is meant to explain the rise of Species, its absolutely not a TEST for what is or isn't LIFE.

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#19    hooko22

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 10:07 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 30 May 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Hey psyche,

Couldn't agree more. Darwin's theory of evolution in a nutshell is meant to explain the rise of Species, its absolutely not a TEST for what is or isn't LIFE.

Nasa did say themselves that life can evolve quite differently. Oh and I think darwin is tied to life as it appears on this planet, but who knows maybe his theory will be sound elsewhere. Can't wait for the day when we might test that! That is if we will be alive!

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#20    lost_shaman

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:36 AM

View Posthooko22, on 30 May 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:


Nasa did say themselves that life can evolve quite differently.

Hey hooko22,

I don't mean to be rude when I ask where did NASA say that? I thought it was obvious that all Species have 'evolved' differently than others.

View Posthooko22, on 30 May 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Oh and I think darwin is tied to life as it appears on this planet, but who knows maybe his theory will be sound elsewhere. Can't wait for the day when we might test that! That is if we will be alive!

Why would it be different?

Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

#21    hooko22

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 11:45 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 30 May 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

Hey hooko22,

I don't mean to be rude when I ask where did NASA say that? I thought it was obvious that all Species have 'evolved' differently than others.



Why would it be different?

No no I think I might not have voiced it well enough. I meant they did some sort of press release on the fact that life could be made out of some material composition or something like that, that scientists previously had thought was impossible. Please forgive me I'm not exactly a science nerd!

Oh and as to why would it be different. Who knows maybe the way of life over there might be all together completely different, I'm merely voicing my contemplation. Not stating something I think is fact, like I say no one knows and who knows!

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#22    TheMcGuffin

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Posted 30 May 2012 - 02:37 PM

View Posthooko22, on 30 May 2012 - 11:45 AM, said:


Oh and as to why would it be different. Who knows maybe the way of life over there might be all together completely different, I'm merely voicing my contemplation. Not stating something I think is fact, like I say no one knows and who knows!

i suspect that life out there could very well be completely different from anything on earth, or anything we could even imagine as life.  I don't see any reason why it would even have to look like us, have cells, DNA or anything like that.

It could even be artificial life of some kind.

"The stuff that dreams are made of"

#23    psyche101

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:54 AM

View Postlost_shaman, on 30 May 2012 - 08:26 AM, said:

Hey psyche,

Couldn't agree more. Darwin's theory of evolution in a nutshell is meant to explain the rise of Species, its absolutely not a TEST for what is or isn't LIFE.

Gidday Mate!

Been far too long since I have seen you posting :D I hope all is well with you.

This guy seems to be a little all over the place, he is saying Hurricane's should be classified as alive. I am just not understanding what he thinks this will accomplish.

Cheers.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#24    psyche101

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Posted 31 May 2012 - 12:55 AM

View Posthooko22, on 30 May 2012 - 10:07 AM, said:

Nasa did say themselves that life can evolve quite differently. Oh and I think darwin is tied to life as it appears on this planet, but who knows maybe his theory will be sound elsewhere. Can't wait for the day when we might test that! That is if we will be alive!

I think with regards to life, Intelligent life and life are quite different in many ways, which would you be referring to?

With regards to non-intelligent life, I woud agree, bit with regards to intelligent life, I think there are certain parameters that need to be met.

Things are what they are. - Me Reality can't be debunked. That's the beauty of it. - Capeo If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants. - Sir Isaac Newton Let me repeat the lesson learned from the Sturrock scientific review panel: Pack up your old data and forget it. Ufology needs new data, new cases, new rigorous and scientific methodologies if it hopes ever to get out of its pit. - Ed Stewart Youtube is the last refuge of the ignorant and is more often used for disinformation than genuine research.  There is a REASON for PEER REVIEW... - Chrlzs Nothing is inexplicable, just unexplained. - Dr Who

#25    Occams Razor

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Posted 22 September 2012 - 07:32 AM

I saw this chap on an ABC program called 'Big Ideas' here in Australia, he was on a panel with Carol Oliver from SETI and some other chap who's name escapes me.

I found it hard to believe this panel was made up of real world-class experts, there seemed to be a lot of nonsense with a few interesting tid-bits thrown in. I thought their ideas regarding intelligent extraterrestrial life were extremely naive. They scoffed at the possibility that any visiting extraterrestrials would be hostile, asking what could they possibly want from us? On the grounds that anything they could get from the Earth they could get from somewhere closer to home. Er....hello, anyone home? The planet for a start. I think good planets like this one are very few and far between, all of the extra solar planets found so far are just useless rocks.

I thought Lineweaver's ideas were curios rather than particularly interesting. It may well be an unimaginably great discovery to find any kind of life that originated on another world but lets be honest, we're only really interested in physical thinking beings with a technology level at least on par with ourselves. A "living" rock isn't going to 'cut the mustard'. You can expand the definition of life as much as you like, but what's the point? No-one outside of the professional scientific community is going to be interested, let alone impressed.

On this program Carol Oliver stated that SETI had picked up some interesting signals that had been repeated "2 or 3 times". I sent her an email asking if these signals were narrow band and if they had any modulation on them. (Modulation being information encoded on the signal) It's extremely unlikely that a modulated narrow band signal would occur in nature, and would be the SETI 'Holy Grail'. I didn't get a response. I emailed another SETI scientist, Seth Shostak, who responded the next day. He told me that Carol Oliver was talking historically and the equipment used to detect these signals was not capable of detecting modulation. Just as with the equipment that 'heard' the WOW signal, they had no idea if it contained any information. For all we know It may be possible for a narrow band signal to occur in nature, but a narrow band signal with modulation, that would have to be synthetic, a manufactured, structured transmission.

It seems to me that in the near term at least the only way we're going to detect a reasonably advanced extraterrestrial species, unless they call in for lunch, is by listening for them as SETI is doing. I think it would be far more useful if they expanded the capabilities of their receiving equipment to include various types of demodulation capability, if they haven't already.

If we could have detected modulation on any of these signals we would know for sure we aren't alone right now.

Edited by Occams Razor, 22 September 2012 - 07:43 AM.





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