251 replies to this topic

[Mr Walker]

onereaderone, on 14 February 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

religious faith  has  nothing  at all  to  do  with  god...   religon  is  with  out  any  standing  in  anything  to  do  with  god.
religon  is  counter  to  god... the  metaphor  is   the  holy  church  fathers   damning  christ  and  killing  him  after  a  court  found  him  guilty  of  no  crime ...   thats  pretty  clear...

all  religon  is  the  same...  if  they  got their  hands  on  god...   they  would  kill  him

post  script=

i  might  go  further...   if  you  go  into  any  local  church ...  i  do  not  care  what  your  standing  in  the  church  or  community  is....   and  seek  out  with  all  good  nature  to  talk  on  the nature  of  god  in  that  setting.... you  will  very  quickly  be  shunned  , aske  to  leave  ...  and  then  forcefully  be  removed .
i  make  no  distinction  of  which   religon  it  is...  or  who  you  are...  in ALL  CASES...  YOU WILL  BE ATTACKED

I've been to many churches of different faiths in my younger years, done exactly that, and never had your experience Maybe australians have a different attitude to religion Now, walk into a footy (football) clubroom and try to debate the relative merits of opposing football teams, and you will meet exactly the response you describe.

[J. K.]

Mr Walker, on 14 February 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Sometimes, when you turn on a room light the bulb explodes, but you continue to turn on lights based on faith and statistics..   

I know I'm terribly concerned with semantics, but your last statement makes the point for me.  The repetition of past events leads to having faith in future occurrences of that event.  I would agree that "blind faith" ignores the evidence, but I still think that regular faith can be had based on experience.

[Mr Walker]

fullywired, on 14 February 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

So ,what your saying is, you have no evidence you can share with us, only your personal beliefs, ,well that clears the matter up then ,I will look for evidence of god  elsewhere

   fullywired

Deliberate misconstruction? I have just finished saying I have no belief in god existence. I have no belief in my dog's existence. I KNOW both exist, using the same form of evidences to know. It is you who is repeating a belief statement which overides (apparently ) your abilty to hear what I am saying or to answer my questions about how YOU know wha tis real and what is not.

Do you agree that i do not believe in the existence of my dog but know it? If not why not, if so why so? You have no evidence of such a claimed dog's existence but readily accept that I can KNOW it exists. Well I KNOW god exists in exacty the same way . Now dont argue that you have encountered dogs as well  That only bolsters my argument. If you  met god you would have evidences for his existence .

[Mr Walker]

J. K., on 14 February 2013 - 09:45 PM, said:

I know I'm terribly concerned with semantics, but your last statement makes the point for me.  The repetition of past events leads to having faith in future occurrences of that event.  I would agree that "blind faith" ignores the evidence, but I still think that regular faith can be had based on experience.

That depends on your knowledge and understanding of statistics household/automotive electronics, and cause and effect just because a light bulb turns on 999 times doesnt mean it will on the thousandth time . Every time you turn a light you have faith it will work or you would not turn it on.  I agree that faith can come from experince Many people have faith in god because 999 times  he has given reason for them to have faith  but it can also be invested without experience. Tha tis still not knolwedge No one KNOWS whether a car will start or a light turn on until they have the evidence that it did, ie after the event

Edited by Mr Walker, 14 February 2013 - 09:51 PM.

[J. K.]

Mr Walker, on 14 February 2013 - 09:49 PM, said:

That depends on your knowledge and understanding of statistics household/automotive electronics, and cause and effect just because a light bulb turns on 999 times doesnt mean it will on the thousandth time . Every time you turn a light you have faith it will work or you would not turn it on.  I agree that faith can come from experince Many people have faith in god because 999 times  he has given reason for them to have faith  but it can also be invested without experience. Tha tis still not knolwedge No one KNOWS whether a car will start or a light turn on until they have the evidence that it did, ie after the event

I agree that there can be faith without evidence, but I don't think that's the only definition for faith.  For example, Superman: The Movie used the tagline "You will believe a man can fly."  That indicates that belief follows proof.  It is another possible definition for faith.

[morino]

my op:the true meaning of life is to get into heaven.no, i'm absolutely not religious.the cold hard fact is that christianity,specifically that what christ teaches mankind in the new testament contains the meaning of life.look at the world;everything that is said is true.life is all about money,sex,etc. 4 people.satisfying oneself.thats all people seem to care about.the world will end one day,and when that day has arrived those who have been loyal 2 god and those who hae suffered the most will get into heaven.think outside the bbox.it doesn't matter who you are(race,class etc.).this count 4 all human beings.the true meaning of life is to b as close to god as u can possibly be.God is almighty,so there's no-one that can surpass him.the only way of reaching a higher state or position as a being in the universe is to be as close to god as possible.that's the limit for us as people.there is no higher position or state than that.how to achieve that?.....again,New Testament.

[theSOURCE]

morino, on 15 February 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

my op:the true meaning of life is to get into heaven.no, i'm absolutely not religious.the cold hard fact is that christianity,specifically that what christ teaches mankind in the new testament contains the meaning of life.look at the world;everything that is said is true.life is all about money,sex,etc. 4 people.satisfying oneself.thats all people seem to care about.the world will end one day,and when that day has arrived those who have been loyal 2 god and those who hae suffered the most will get into heaven.think outside the bbox.it doesn't matter who you are(race,class etc.).this count 4 all human beings.the true meaning of life is to b as close to god as u can possibly be.God is almighty,so there's no-one that can surpass him.the only way of reaching a higher state or position as a being in the universe is to be as close to god as possible.that's the limit for us as people.there is no higher position or state than that.how to achieve that?.....again,New Testament.

I may have heard wrong, but you state that you're "absolutely not religious", yet you believe whole-heartedly in the New Testament? Isn't that just a tad contradictory?

[Frank Merton]

Having or adopting children is strongly recommended as a way to give meaning to your life, or, if not that, to at least distract you from yourself.

[fullywired]

Mr Walker, on 14 February 2013 - 09:46 PM, said:

Deliberate misconstruction? I have just finished saying I have no belief in god existence. I have no belief in my dog's existence. I KNOW both exist, using the same form of evidences to know. It is you who is repeating a belief statement which overides (apparently ) your abilty to hear what I am saying or to answer my questions about how YOU know wha tis real and what is not.

Do you agree that i do not believe in the existence of my dog but know it? If not why not, if so why so? You have no evidence of such a claimed dog's existence but readily accept that I can KNOW it exists. Well I KNOW god exists in exacty the same way . Now dont argue that you have encountered dogs as well  That only bolsters my argument. If you  met god you would have evidences for his existence .

I don't know what you believe, all I know is you said that you had evidence but you can't provide it .Nothing you have posted is evidence of the existence of God but only your beliefs and no matter how you dress it up it remains the same and trying the old ploy of if you don't have an answer ask a question  won.t work with me


fullywired

[morino]

theSOURCE, on 15 February 2013 - 06:48 AM, said:

I may have heard wrong, but you state that you're "absolutely not religious", yet you believe whole-heartedly in the New Testament? Isn't that just a tad contradictory?

No,its not that i believe in The NT;but what's written in it is cold hard fact,not belief.as i said,loot at the world around you...

[IamsSon]

fullywired, on 15 February 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

I don't know what you believe, all I know is you said that you had evidence but you can't provide it .Nothing you have posted is evidence of the existence of God but only your beliefs and no matter how you dress it up it remains the same and trying the old ploy of if you don't have an answer ask a question  won.t work with me


fullywired

Given that the scientific method would not be applicable to evidence of the existence of a supernatural being, exactly what process would you use to examine evidence provided by Mr. W?

[theSOURCE]

morino, on 15 February 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

No,its not that i believe in The NT;but what's written in it is cold hard fact,not belief.as i said,loot at the world around you...

But you say the meaning of life is to get into heaven, yet you say you're not religious. Obviously you must believe in heaven, correct?

[eight bits]

IamsSon

Quote

Given that the scientific method would not be applicable to evidence of the existence of a supernatural being, exactly what process would you use to examine evidence provided by Mr. W?

In Mr Walker's view, there is a god who is a physical being, "an independently existing, real and powerful entity humans call god." In particular, it was Mr Walker who proposed physical tests of the sort routinely used to explore other physical questions,

Quote

Well, I know the nature of gods and angels via exactly the same tested knowledge. I DO continue to test the solidity of brick walls and my ability to fly.

If you feel that such tests would be unavailing, then you need to pursue that with Mr Walker.

Do you believe that establishing the existence of supernatural beings, rather than physical beings thought by some to be supernatural, would help us to establish a "true meaning of life?"

[IamsSon]

eight bits, on 15 February 2013 - 10:10 PM, said:

IamsSon

In Mr Walker's view, there is a god who is a physical being, "an independently existing, real and powerful entity humans call god." In particular, it was Mr Walker who proposed physical tests of the sort routinely used to explore other physical questions,

My point remains:  how would one go about examining evidence of "godhood?"  What method would be used?  How would the results be validated?

[eight bits]

IamsSon

Quote

My point remains:  how would one go about examining evidence of "godhood?"  What method would be used?  How would the results be validated?

I wasn't aware those were points. They, along with your earlier

Quote

Given that the scientific method would not be applicable to evidence of the existence of a supernatural being, exactly what process would you use to examine evidence provided by Mr. W?

look like questions, requests for information. I gave you some advice about where, if anywhere, answers might be found, that's all. I didn't realize you weren't asking to find out information, but only making a point.

Anyway, my question to you really was a question.

Quote

Do you believe that establishing the existence of supernatural beings, rather than physical beings thought by some to be supernatural, would help us to establish a "true meaning of life?"

I asked, because the matter touches on some of the points raised in my earlier post in this thread, # 67, from a few days ago.

I'll answer first, if you like. No. When I look at Mr Walker's posts in light of what Campbell and Jung explained, it appears that whether Mr Walker's experiences can furnish a true meaning for his own life doesn't depend on whether his experiences are physical or supernatural. That may be important for other reasons, but not so important for the topic.

I am not denying that any fact whatsoever is nice to know, just asserting that not every factual controversy bears on every question that comes up in life.