tags Posted August 14, 2006 #1 Share Posted August 14, 2006 How do Muslims believe salvation is earned? What does the koran say on this issue anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted August 14, 2006 #2 Share Posted August 14, 2006 How do Muslims believe salvation is earned? What does the koran say on this issue anyone? Well to help you out if you look under your thread you will see another thread with a link to the Qur'an in english you can read it and find out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 14, 2006 Author #3 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Well to help you out if you look under your thread you will see another thread with a link to the Qur'an in english you can read it and find out. Its quite long and Im quite lazy! If someone could explain it in a nutshell citing where the relevant scripture is found it would be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusSolo Posted August 14, 2006 #4 Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) Look man. Just click the link to the Qur'an. That's what it's there for. To Help people understand. If you truly wanted to know you'd go to the Qur'an thread and read. Edited August 14, 2006 by IcarusSolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 14, 2006 Author #5 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Look man. Just click the link to the Qur'an. That's what it's there for. To Help people understand. If you truly wanted to know you'd go to the Qur'an thread and read. Id prefer someone to point me in the right direction, ie tell me the verses in question, Im not about to go searching for needles in hay stacks! It makes more sense to me if I ask first get the relevant opinions and verses then go looking... I may be weird but its my perogative! Cheers for your help any way 'man' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaoszerg Posted August 14, 2006 #6 Share Posted August 14, 2006 Id prefer someone to point me in the right direction, ie tell me the verses in question, Im not about to go searching for needles in hay stacks! It makes more sense to me if I ask first get the relevant opinions and verses then go looking... I may be weird but its my perogative! Cheers for your help any way 'man' i think you can only earn your salvation if you follow the divine commandments. I think that's it anyway am i right IcarusSolo if not then i'm sorry for misinterperating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusSolo Posted August 14, 2006 #7 Share Posted August 14, 2006 For muslims, yes. They live their lives according to the Qur'an. And at the end............ 72 Virgins on a silver platter? (Maybe So) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 14, 2006 Author #8 Share Posted August 14, 2006 For muslims, yes. They live their lives according to the Qur'an. And at the end............ 72 Virgins on a silver platter? (Maybe So) elaborate on the works needed for salvation, what is the relationship between the works and atonement for sin...or is there any?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusSolo Posted August 14, 2006 #9 Share Posted August 14, 2006 (edited) elaborate on the works needed for salvation, The Qur'an plain & simple. From Beginning to end. If you want answers read. Edited August 14, 2006 by IcarusSolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 14, 2006 Author #10 Share Posted August 14, 2006 The Qur'an plain & simple. From Beginning to end. If you want answers read. Thats not very helpful but whatever, Cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #11 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I think what Icarus is saying is that to gain salvation Muslims have to read and adhere to all of the Qur’an, not just pick out the bits that will ensure you a clean slate and ignore the rest. I’m personally not religious, but that makes a lot more sense to me then the Christian idea of picking and choosing what to follow according to what suits them best. Apologies if that’s not what you meant… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 15, 2006 Author #12 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I think what Icarus is saying is that to gain salvation Muslims have to read and adhere to all of the Qur’an, not just pick out the bits that will ensure you a clean slate and ignore the rest. I’m personally not religious, but that makes a lot more sense to me then the Christian idea of picking and choosing what to follow according to what suits them best. Apologies if that’s not what you meant… What Christian doctrine are you highlighting here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #13 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I’m talking about any Christian doctrine who’s members work on the Sabbath, have contact with women in their period of menstrual uncleanliness, eat shellfish, that sort of thing… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 15, 2006 Author #14 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I’m talking about any Christian doctrine who’s members work on the Sabbath, have contact with women in their period of menstrual uncleanliness, eat shellfish, that sort of thing… I agree (in principle any way) are these people truly Christians then? But Another way of looking at it is this...Christians do not claim to be perfect...quite the opposite...they claim to be imperfect sinners who need help,ie a saviour in the form of Jesus. So the fact that these selfconfessed sinners worship imperfectly is to be expected in a sense. They are not claiming to be perfectly holy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #15 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I’m sure you’re right. I’m not a Christian, so I wouldn’t know. I was merely saying I could understand where Icarus was coming from. It is easy for a Christian to explain to someone unfamiliar with the bible exactly where to find the verses that deal with salvation, as that is the structure of their religion. If salvation in Islam involves understanding and following the entire Qur’an, he couldn’t very well ‘summarise’ for you, could he? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 15, 2006 Author #16 Share Posted August 15, 2006 I’m sure you’re right. I’m not a Christian, so I wouldn’t know. I was merely saying I could understand where Icarus was coming from. It is easy for a Christian to explain to someone unfamiliar with the bible exactly where to find the verses that deal with salvation, as that is the structure of their religion. If salvation in Islam involves understanding and following the entire Qur’an, he couldn’t very well ‘summarise’ for you, could he? It was not clear that he was actually making that explicit comment. If he was then no one can be saved because to understand and follow everything in the koran is impossible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #17 Share Posted August 15, 2006 How do you know that? You clearly haven’t read it, because you were asking people to tell you what it said about salvation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #18 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Actually, now I’ve read the OP’s other threads, I’m not sure if I should be clarifying his beliefs for him. You’re both too obsessed with your own religions if you ask me. Live and let live. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tags Posted August 15, 2006 Author #19 Share Posted August 15, 2006 How do you know that? You clearly haven’t read it, because you were asking people to tell you what it said about salvation. So you think it is possible to understand every thing in the koran? I have not read it,-that is correct, but I know it deals with issues such as creation and, GOD!!! Therefore I would be safe to assume that no human being on earth understands these issues completely!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sthenno Posted August 15, 2006 #20 Share Posted August 15, 2006 Maybe understand wasn’t the right word to use then; what I meant was that maybe Islam requires muslims to follow everything they are told in the Qur’an in order to gain salvation, which is why Icarus could not sum it up for you. I am, however, only theorising. I have not read it, so theorise is all I am able to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.A.D CapeBretoner Posted August 16, 2006 #21 Share Posted August 16, 2006 what does the qur'an say about suicide bombers or does it, just wondering Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcarusSolo Posted August 16, 2006 #22 Share Posted August 16, 2006 what does the qur'an say about suicide bombers or does it, just wondering Are you being sarcastic or just stupid? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odas Posted August 16, 2006 #23 Share Posted August 16, 2006 That is agood question M.A.D., but again, one cannot answer it that easy, but I will try anyway. Suicide is forbidden in Islam. Exeption: If this is the only way to stop the enemy to harm your family, friends. The Enemy is classified as a soldier with a weapon in the hand. Explanation 2 : The Quran forbids following regarding wars: A muslim is not allowed to kill or harm a child, elderly person, ill person, women( unless she is a soldier with a weapon) AND a soldier who has layed down his weapon and surrenderd. That is written in the Quran 1400 hundred years before the Geneva Connvention. Honestly, to understand the Quran, you have to read it. Unfortunately, during the years the Quran is intentialy misinpresented by male shovinists in order to gain power. Of course, for every good point in Quran, people can answer with a variety of other points, but we have the same thing regarding the Bible. Basicly, there is nothing wrong with the Quran, but some of the "followers" will have a loooong talk with Allah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.A.D CapeBretoner Posted August 16, 2006 #24 Share Posted August 16, 2006 Are you being sarcastic or just stupid? niether, you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M.A.D CapeBretoner Posted August 16, 2006 #25 Share Posted August 16, 2006 That is agood question M.A.D., but again, one cannot answer it that easy, but I will try anyway. Suicide is forbidden in Islam. Exeption: If this is the only way to stop the enemy to harm your family, friends. The Enemy is classified as a soldier with a weapon in the hand. Explanation 2 : The Quran forbids following regarding wars: A muslim is not allowed to kill or harm a child, elderly person, ill person, women( unless she is a soldier with a weapon) AND a soldier who has layed down his weapon and surrenderd. That is written in the Quran 1400 hundred years before the Geneva Connvention. Honestly, to understand the Quran, you have to read it. Unfortunately, during the years the Quran is intentialy misinpresented by male shovinists in order to gain power. Of course, for every good point in Quran, people can answer with a variety of other points, but we have the same thing regarding the Bible. Basicly, there is nothing wrong with the Quran, but some of the "followers" will have a loooong talk with Allah. thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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